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Yes Qak that's why I raised the point so we can discuss answers, its totally clear that the SFA have none, and whilst the lower clubs have the Rangers money in the bank they keep quiet.

And my point on the national team is valid. Two recent Saints players are now squad players, and lets be honest they probably are the brighter sparks in the team.

NI also have SPFL players but somehow they seem to be on a total roll. The answers have been given they are just not followed.

Where is the development- Where are the facilities, What is happening to our youth players, why do the SFA rip off the fans, and where are they with the so called Think Tanks, McLeish report.

As for the teams in Scotland.

Well I bet there are teams from the Faroes, Liechtenstein and the rest that are hoping for a Scots team.

Why- cause its our summer break and not theirs. Why do we still have this. We are 27th in Europe, the world ranking of 40th is farcical as the whole world ranking is. As demonstrated in Georgia who are 140th, they are just as good.

We will not qualify for 2018, we have no players of any real talent coming thru and Strachan sticks with same mupetts who don't deliver. Hutton has been a car crash for years, as has Fletcher, I could name about 8 others, and guess what they are all playing against France.

aNSWER= Play youth, we might go back to start but have a plan. Iceland, Belgium and Wales have all had to go thru the pain, but its now working.

The Dutch are going to totally overhaul their game, I bet they do.

First plan- Get new people running our game

I'm not saying it right Scottish fans prefer a cavalier way of playing not a technical way say the Italians play. Would love to see a comparison league with countries with a 5 million population to where Scotland would be in that league.
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Just to add Scotland has one of the biggest attendances in the world per head of population.

Edit to add - Scotland are 22d in world rankings according to Fifa with Bahrain , Faro Islands are ahead of Scotland. Personally I would say we have more success than these countries . Also more people in scotland attend football than in England per head of population.

Crisis what crisis ?

Scottish football is far from perfect and we have tried to teach our coaches the right way in Largs , however again will point out how scottish fans like their football played. Also the more north you come in Europe the less successful you seem to be. Denmark , Norway , Sweden. How many of their clubs have won European competitions or made finals , how many Scottish clubs won and lost in finals in Europe.

Nobody is better at knocking themselves down than Scots. Yes we are not perfect but its not all bad.

Edited by Isle Of Bute Saint
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Nice answer, run along, time you posted some more racist/homophobic twattery.

Mate, as your a fellow Buddie I wont go deeper, just stick to the subject matter without your wee personal jabs.

The topic is Scottish Football, see if you can cope with that.

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Mate, as your a fellow Buddie I wont go deeper, just stick to the subject matter without your wee personal jabs.

The topic is Scottish Football, see if you can cope with that.

Irony.

Tell me, the teams that have cut their ticket/entry costs ny half and have doubled their attendance?

You can do the sums that this would have to happen just to maintain current revenue stream from attendance?

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More whining but no answers in your post.

Clearly the problem is the quality of coaching over the last 30 years and the desire of our own players to be the very best.

Nothing to do with Wotte FFS. You said yourself this is a long term problem.

Most euro countries have entire squads who are technically more proficient than our players.

Stop worrying about nonsense and focus on the root of the problem.

The root of the problem is the Academy system. It's quite simple Oaksoft. If the SFA would stop handing vast sums of government and sponsorship money to our senior clubs to sign 10 year old shirt fillers who then get dragged all round the country to play football matches for free and instead invested in facilities and let the juvenile system do its job we wouldn't be in this mess.

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^^^^^ Knows nothing about football.

Do you really think halving the cost to attend would see an increase in revenue?

If so you are more stupid than I thought.

I've run a few businesses, thanks for asking.

Selling yourself to tory mps doesn't count though.

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Irony.

Tell me, the teams that have cut their ticket/entry costs ny half and have doubled their attendance?

You can do the sums that this would have to happen just to maintain current revenue stream from attendance?

Ok a good question- so I reckon no, because the clubs drop midweek "pay what you can" matches. That's not what I meant by £10 a game, I mean get bums on seats, there are 50 times more people in shopping centres that football stadia and spending more money.

When I started supporting Saints in 76 we were also in second tier but getting 2-3 times as many supporters, yes we were winning but it was also a fair price to pay. Now its a joke, and its people don't want to pay for something that's not value for money.

I reckon IF clubs with the help of the SFA marketed the supporters most would say its not worth the admission fee, so clubs get poorer and the merry go round continues.

Its not working, its not the league sizes, its the product and lets face it the atmosphere. Only two places I can think of that work, are Hearts and Falkirk

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Ok a good question- so I reckon no, because the clubs drop midweek "pay what you can" matches. That's not what I meant by £10 a game, I mean get bums on seats, there are 50 times more people in shopping centres that football stadia and spending more money.

When I started supporting Saints in 76 we were also in second tier but getting 2-3 times as many supporters, yes we were winning but it was also a fair price to pay. Now its a joke, and its people don't want to pay for something that's not value for money.

I reckon IF clubs with the help of the SFA marketed the supporters most would say its not worth the admission fee, so clubs get poorer and the merry go round continues.

Its not working, its not the league sizes, its the product and lets face it the atmosphere. Only two places I can think of that work, are Hearts and Falkirk

Time has moved on mate. Bars are open all day they weren't back in in 76. There are far more things to do now a days. Maybe season ticket holders could bring a fried along for a tenner. Think we will see larger gates this season we have a good manager while the league looks good also personal can't wait for the new season to start.
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Bud,

Are the bars shut in England then. I was out for a drink last night with a colleague from Nottingham , he supports Forest. They get 20k on a bad day and pay £30 a time to watch lower end Championship. The product is far better as is the atmosphere.

I take your point and faraways points, and this is aimed at false dawns from the SFA.

I sincerely hope AR gets the buzz back that Tom Hen had, I certainly will be going, my point is the overall prob, Saints can and will get 4000-5000 with a good run, that's double what Accies get and Caley and Fakes

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Or look at it another way, the national team were a win against Georgia away from qualifying for a major tournament for the first time in longer than anyone cares to remember.

Personally I think the problem started in British football when the English Premiership started to pay silly money and make average footballers millionaires, there's no doubt that started to stifle player development in Britain.

Few players from up here have shone in England's top tier since then so the next option for them is the Championship.

Whilst being a high paying league the standard is not great, as a result we have Scottish players heading down there and either carving out a decidedly average career for themselves(albeit lucrative)or heading back up the road after a string of loan moves with their best years lost.

Is football as we know it fecked?

Possibly, ironically the one club who seem to have turned it round and are flourishing are the Jambos who ironically benefit from a form of fan ownership, if only we had such an opportunity.

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Time has moved on mate. Bars are open all day they weren't back in in 76. There are far more things to do now a days. Maybe season ticket holders could bring a fried along for a tenner. Think we will see larger gates this season we have a good manager while the league looks good also personal can't wait for the new season to start.

Expensive chippy. whistling.gif

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Time has moved on mate. Bars are open all day they weren't back in in 76. There are far more things to do now a days. Maybe season ticket holders could bring a fried along for a tenner. Think we will see larger gates this season we have a good manager while the league looks good also personal can't wait for the new season to start.

People went to bars in 1976 IoBS - these days pubs are shutting their doors forever at an alarming rate. Wherever the potential football customers are I don't think they are drinking in a bar somewhere. The only pub in Wishaw that seems to do a roaring trade on match days quickly becomes deserted when the bus comes and takes all their customers to Parkhead.

To be completely fair I think the clubs average gate probably holds up quite well in terms of history. Around 2,500 - 3,000 fans would fit with the period throughout the 90's and during subsequent spells in the second tier since. That seems steady. What I'd be more concerned with is the changing demographic of the support. It's quite evident on any trip to Paisley that the profile of your average St Mirren fan is far older today than it was when I first started going. Most of the fans getting off supporters buses look to be in the late 40's and early 50's and there's certainly no ring of kids two or three rows deep around the pitch perimeter any more.

I think the club shot itself in the foot in the early 2000's when the practice of lifting kids under the age of 12 ended and the club started to insist that those kids pay their way. It simply had the effect of ensuring parents didn't take their kids any more. My eldest son was around 18 months to 2 years old during the 99-00 promotion season and I had started taking him to matches. Away grounds were no problem at all but at St Mirren, in the enclosure, I was being asked to pay my son in through the child gate (I seem to remember £8 although that might be wrong), then with him in the stadium, I was to go back and join the adult queue to pay my own admission. Of course that meant I was leaving a minor in my charge in a football stadium out of my eye line which I was extremely uncomfortable about. Despite my complaints to security and to the club no solution was ever found. Indeed it got even more stupid when I started to take my Dad who had dementia and it got to the point where my son was having to stop him from panicking while I got through my turn style. I was enjoying the football, but the match day experience was awful.

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Bud,

Are the bars shut in England then. I was out for a drink last night with a colleague from Nottingham , he supports Forest. They get 20k on a bad day and pay £30 a time to watch lower end Championship. The product is far better as is the atmosphere.

I take your point and faraways points, and this is aimed at false dawns from the SFA.

I sincerely hope AR gets the buzz back that Tom Hen had, I certainly will be going, my point is the overall prob, Saints can and will get 4000-5000 with a good run, that's double what Accies get and Caley and Fakes

There is an easy answer to Bars open in England there 50 million population we 5 million . Per head of population more people attend football in Scotland than England that's a fact not a guess. Edited by Isle Of Bute Saint
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Also the more north you come in Europe the less successful you seem to be. Denmark , Norway , Sweden. How many of their clubs have won European competitions or made finals , how many Scottish clubs won and lost in finals in Europe.

Nobody is better at knocking themselves down than Scots. Yes we are not perfect but its not all bad.

Denmark won the European Championships in 1992 and have only not qualified twice since then and have been to 2 world cups since we were last there.

Norway have qualified for the Euro's more recently than Scotland.

Sweden have been runners up in the World Cup once and third placed on two occasions, reached the semi's of the Euros in 1992 and have qualified for the last 5 European Championships in a row.

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Denmark won the European Championships in 1992 and have only not qualified twice since then and have been to 2 world cups since we were last there.

Norway have qualified for the Euro's more recently than Scotland.

Sweden have been runners up in the World Cup once and third placed on two occasions, reached the semi's of the Euros in 1992 and have qualified for the last 5 European Championships in a row.

I was talking club success . Sweden have also won the world cup.
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There is an easy answer to Bars open in England there 50 million population we 5 million . Per head of population more people attend football in Scotland than England that's a fact not a guess.

Per head of population almost 3 times more people regularly attend football matches in the Faroe Island than do in Scotland.

In England figures are distorted because it doesn't take into account the number of people paying to watch non league football from the National League down and there is blanket coverage of every premiership match available live on the Internet

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People went to bars in 1976 IoBS - these days pubs are shutting their doors forever at an alarming rate. Wherever the potential football customers are I don't think they are drinking in a bar somewhere. The only pub in Wishaw that seems to do a roaring trade on match days quickly becomes deserted when the bus comes and takes all their customers to Parkhead.

To be completely fair I think the clubs average gate probably holds up quite well in terms of history. Around 2,500 - 3,000 fans would fit with the period throughout the 90's and during subsequent spells in the second tier since. That seems steady. What I'd be more concerned with is the changing demographic of the support. It's quite evident on any trip to Paisley that the profile of your average St Mirren fan is far older today than it was when I first started going. Most of the fans getting off supporters buses look to be in the late 40's and early 50's and there's certainly no ring of kids two or three rows deep around the pitch perimeter any more.

I think the club shot itself in the foot in the early 2000's when the practice of lifting kids under the age of 12 ended and the club started to insist that those kids pay their way. It simply had the effect of ensuring parents didn't take their kids any more. My eldest son was around 18 months to 2 years old during the 99-00 promotion season and I had started taking him to matches. Away grounds were no problem at all but at St Mirren, in the enclosure, I was being asked to pay my son in through the child gate (I seem to remember £8 although that might be wrong), then with him in the stadium, I was to go back and join the adult queue to pay my own admission. Of course that meant I was leaving a minor in my charge in a football stadium out of my eye line which I was extremely uncomfortable about. Despite my complaints to security and to the club no solution was ever found. Indeed it got even more stupid when I started to take my Dad who had dementia and it got to the point where my son was having to stop him from panicking while I got through my turn style. I was enjoying the football, but the match day experience was awful.

My son was 9-10 during that season and I took him a few times. I'm reasonably sure there was a parent & child gate.

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In the early 70's before Fergie we pulled in sub 1000 gates. Why? Cause the team was shite, we finished 27th in Scotland in 1974. When Ferguson came and we got good the crowds came back. Just like they did under Hendrie in 99/00.

That's the main driving factor behind crowd numbers. If we win the league next season we will get 5k home gates during the run in and an open top bus through Paisley. Then the crowds will go down again when we get back to the turgidity of bottom half top flight football.

People talking about the interminable decline of Scottish is nothing new. I remember seeing an article from 1968 when Celtic got knocked out of Europe the year after they won it. It basically said then that Scottish football was dying. It's the same sensationalist school of thought that says 50 odd years later it's still dying, as will also say it will be dying fifty years from now.

The reality is Scottish football is plodding along just fine. And will continue to do so. But where's the fun in saying something like that?

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In the early 70's before Fergie we pulled in sub 1000 gates. Why? Cause the team was shite, we finished 27th in Scotland in 1974. When Ferguson came and we got good the crowds came back. Just like they did under Hendrie in 99/00.

That's the main driving factor behind crowd numbers. If we win the league next season we will get 5k home gates during the run in and an open top bus through Paisley. Then the crowds will go down again when we get back to the turgidity of bottom half top flight football.

People talking about the interminable decline of Scottish is nothing new. I remember seeing an article from 1968 when Celtic got knocked out of Europe the year after they won it. It basically said then that Scottish football was dying. It's the same sensationalist school of thought that says 50 odd years later it's still dying, as will also say it will be dying fifty years from now.

The reality is Scottish football is plodding along just fine. And will continue to do so. But where's the fun in saying something like that?

Correct , Our gates have not changed much in the last couple of decades as I said further back Crisis what crisis.
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My own son was 6 then and never once got stopped from lifting him over.

Would anyone on here pay for their child under 2 years of age to go through a turnstyle then walk away and leave them?

Only in his head did that ever happen.

You're forgetting his son was in the process of suing a witch of a mother so could afford to pay for a bodyguard! whistling.gif

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