salmonbuddie Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 The last Holyrood election was May 2016 prior to the Euro Referendum and I don't recall IndyRef2 being on the agenda. You have a very poor memory, Bud, it was one of the main parts of the campaign. This is an extract from the manifesto:"We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 Ruth the untruth claims their is currently no mandate for another indyref despite snp having it in their manifesto and winning a vote in Parliament for it.She also seems to ignore that her party are in a minority government at Westminster. Also she knows that holyrood voting system I'd designed to not have a majority.It would be good if she was questioned on these pronouncements instead of the media treating them as little more than party media releases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 14, 2019 Report Share Posted June 14, 2019 A couple of posters trying to rewrite history above. The SNP were largely quiet on the Indyref2 and it certainly was not campaigned on with any real vigour. Their re-election as the Holyrood government was certainly not a mandate for Indyref2 in any way, shape or form. It is just ridiculous to suggest orherwise. They should certainly run the 2021 campaign largely on Indyref2 IMO and I think they will probably win a majority anyway. Then I think they will have real democratic clout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaybee Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 On 6/24/2016 at 12:09 PM, faraway saint said: On 6/24/2016 at 11:56 AM, BuddieinEK said: STF up hen and get on with your proper job... the one you were elected to do. Scottish electorate = 4,283,938, votes cast in EU referendum... leave 1,018,322, remain 1,661,191 = Total votes 2,679.315... which means that 1.6 million couldn't be arsed......... The same number that voted remain. Over one million Scots voted to leave. .. ... You said you wanted to represent ALL Scots... Not just SNP voters... so Nicola you can go play with the traffic... You have NO mandate for your very predictable yet tiresome response. what's your point? Really? what's your point? are you off your f**king trolly, can you not read? Really? You might disagree but ...............what's your point? You really are a dumplinG. Oh, off course ..................... in my humble opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 A couple of posters trying to rewrite history above. The SNP were largely quiet on the Indyref2 and it certainly was not campaigned on with any real vigour. Their re-election as the Holyrood government was certainly not a mandate for Indyref2 in any way, shape or form. It is just ridiculous to suggest orherwise. They should certainly run the 2021 campaign largely on Indyref2 IMO and I think they will probably win a majority anyway. Then I think they will have real democratic clout. Pish. I'll make it easy for you by quoting from the manifesto that the current government was elected on: "We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will." As soon as Scotland is taken out of the EU against its will the mandate is in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russian Saint Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 After Brexit (and I believe it will happen) there’s no guarantee that Scotland will gain entry back into the EU, it could take years for that. A bit like SEVCO trying to get straight back into the premier league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 After Brexit (and I believe it will happen) there’s no guarantee that Scotland will gain entry back into the EU, it could take years for that. A bit like SEVCO trying to get straight back into the premier league.I reckon it'll be quicker process than brexit has been. We will want back in for the exports to the 27 countries. They want access to our fishing grounds. Both Scotland and EU want free movement of people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 6 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: 29 minutes ago, Russian Saint said: After Brexit (and I believe it will happen) there’s no guarantee that Scotland will gain entry back into the EU, it could take years for that. A bit like SEVCO trying to get straight back into the premier league. I reckon it'll be quicker process than brexit has been. We will want back in for the exports to the 27 countries. They want access to our fishing grounds. Both Scotland and EU want free movement of people. We are also up to date with all their rules regarding goods. Boris being leader if it happens will be the break up of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted June 15, 2019 Report Share Posted June 15, 2019 11 hours ago, jaybee said: Really? what's your point? are you off your f**king trolly, can you not read? Really? You might disagree but ...............what's your point? You really are a dumplinG. Oh, off course ..................... in my humble opinion. Woooooosh. 🤡 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 14 hours ago, salmonbuddie said: Pish. I'll make it easy for you by quoting from the manifesto that the current government was elected on: "We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will." As soon as Scotland is taken out of the EU against its will the mandate is in place. Yes, everyone reads the manifestos of political parties. 🤣 They didn't push Indyref2 as hard as you are claiming during public debates and it certainly wasn't front and centre of the campaign for very good reasons, but hey, you keep deluding yourself if it makes you happy. Edited June 16, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Yes, everyone reads the manifestos of political parties. [emoji1787] They didn't push Indyref2 as hard as you are claiming during public debates and it certainly wasn't front and centre of the campaign for very good reasons, but hey, you keep deluding yourself if it makes you happy.Mair pish. It's fifth on a long list here:https://www.snp.org/the-snp-2016-manifesto-explained/It was explicitly part of the campaign in 2016 for the very reason that Brexit was on the table and everyone was talking about it. Well, everyone but you, apparently, meaning it wasn't talked about at all in your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, salmonbuddie said: Mair pish. It's fifth on a long list here:https://www.snp.org/the-snp-2016-manifesto-explained/ It was explicitly part of the campaign in 2016 for the very reason that Brexit was on the table and everyone was talking about it. Well, everyone but you, apparently, meaning it wasn't talked about at all in your head. Oooooo it's on a website. How thrilling! I have no idea why you are insistent on this nonsense but you are free to delude yourself in whatever way fluffs your pillows bud. Edited June 16, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Oooooo it's on a website. How thrilling! I have no idea why you are insistent on this nonsense but you are free to delude yourself in whatever way fluffs your pillows bud. You can try to rewrite history all you like but the reality in your head isn't the reality the rest of us experienced. Indyref2 was front and centre in the 2016 campaign no matter how often you attempt to deny it.I'm surprised at you, I've given you proof yet you continue to deny it. Remind you of anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 57 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Oooooo it's on a website. How thrilling! I have no idea why you are insistent on this nonsense but you are free to delude yourself in whatever way fluffs your pillows bud. It was mentioned in every political debate. The opposition parties mentioned almost nothing else. They thought it would decimate the SNP vote. When it was mentioned the SNP didn't try to hide from it. In fact they emphasised the fact. Why you didn't hear it is beyond me. I suppose you were watching the big bang theory for research purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornwall_Saint Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 22 hours ago, Russian Saint said: After Brexit (and I believe it will happen) there’s no guarantee that Scotland will gain entry back into the EU, it could take years for that. A bit like SEVCO trying to get straight back into the premier league. Many in the EU have said they will welcome Scotland straight back in. If Yes had won in 2014 it would have been a more difficult scenario, but now the EU are seeing Scotland being dragged out against their will, and they’ve seen the overwhelming support to remain in Scotland. A number of EU politicians have offered support to Scotland, and the process should be a lot easier now than it would have been previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 3 hours ago, stlucifer said: It was mentioned in every political debate. The opposition parties mentioned almost nothing else. They thought it would decimate the SNP vote. When it was mentioned the SNP didn't try to hide from it. In fact they emphasised the fact. Why you didn't hear it is beyond me. I suppose you were watching the big bang theory for research purposes. Sigh. I am not talking about what the opposition parties said FFS. The SNP underplayed, correctly, Indyref2 at that election. They will go full steam ahead with it next time and it will be front and centre of the next election. I'll leave the rest of you to re-write history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 I'll leave the rest of you to re-write history. No need, you've done it for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 3 hours ago, stlucifer said: Why you didn't hear it is beyond me. I suppose you were watching the big bang theory for research purposes. He was learning his social skills from Sheldon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 2 hours ago, oaksoft said: Sigh. I am not talking about what the opposition parties said FFS. The SNP underplayed, correctly, Indyref2 at that election. They will go full steam ahead with it next time and it will be front and centre of the next election. I'll leave the rest of you to re-write history. No they did not! They answered the questions by saying EXACTLY what was in the manifesto. that they would call for a second referendum on independence should the RoUK attempt to drag us out of the EU against the will of the Scottish electorate. How more clearly could they have put it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, stlucifer said: No they did not! They answered the questions by saying EXACTLY what was in the manifesto. that they would call for a second referendum on independence should the RoUK attempt to drag us out of the EU against the will of the Scottish electorate. How more clearly could they have put it? There is a difference between being reactive and proactive? The SNP as you have just explained were reactive about IndyRef2. I am saying they were not proactively pushing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 Just now, oaksoft said: There is a difference between being reactive and proactive? The SNP as you have just explained were reactive about IndyRef2. I am saying they were not proactively pushing it. Come on. You're having a laugh here. It was in the manifesto. They declared it was in the manifesto right at the start. They answered when asked in no uncertain terms that it was part of their manifesto. They at no time tried to underplay the fact it was there. They were not a one trick pony and had other issues which were just as relevant at the time. Just admit you were wrong and we'll all move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, stlucifer said: Come on. You're having a laugh here. It was in the manifesto. They declared it was in the manifesto right at the start. They answered when asked in no uncertain terms that it was part of their manifesto. They at no time tried to underplay the fact it was there. They were not a one trick pony and had other issues which were just as relevant at the time. Just admit you were wrong and we'll all move on. My last word on this is that she needs to go to the electorate proactively saying that a vote for the SNP at the next Holyrood election is a vote for Indyref2 to be held within the lifetime of that parliament. That didn't happen in 2016 and she must do this before she can claim a mandate for it. She didn't do it in 2016 and therefore has no explicit mandate YET. And that is the end of my involvement in this "discussion". Edited June 16, 2019 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 My last word on this is that she needs to go to the electorate proactively saying that a vote for the SNP at the next Holyrood election is a vote for Indyref2 to be held within the lifetime of that parliament. That didn't happen in 2016 and she must do this before she can claim a mandate for it. She didn't do it in 2016 and therefore has no explicit mandate YET. And that is the end of my involvement in this "discussion".I agree, the SNP doesn't have a mandate yet, I said precisely that in my first post of this session. As soon as we are removed from the EU against our will the mandate exists and no amount of whataboutery from you will change that fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: My last word on this is that she needs to go to the electorate proactively saying that a vote for the SNP at the next Holyrood election is a vote for Indyref2 to be held within the lifetime of that parliament. That didn't happen in 2016 and she must do this before she can claim a mandate for it. She didn't do it in 2016 and therefore has no explicit mandate YET. And that is the end of my involvement in this "discussion". Well your last word is NONSENSE. She won the mandate as it was clearly part of the manifesto. What's not to get here? Is it different for the SNP from Labour and the Tories? The claim is that Brexit was ratified because they won the most votes in the RoUK. An election by the way that showed the SNP as by far the most popular party in Scotland with a pro independence manifesto. You claim to be intelligent but your posts on here say something entirely different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted June 16, 2019 Report Share Posted June 16, 2019 1 minute ago, salmonbuddie said: I agree, the SNP doesn't have a mandate yet, I said precisely that in my first post of this session. As soon as we are removed from the EU against our will the mandate exists and no amount of whataboutery from you will change that fact. I would argue they DO have a mandate as the UK government is in the process of removing us from the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.