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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I think the problem in thinking the way you do is that you have a very high risk (and I'm not saying you are like this) of resentment brewing. It's a very short step from there to "chip on shoulder" attitude, anti-English sentiment and then outright racism. Personally I just don't think it's a view which leads anywhere healthy but I respect your opinion on that and I can see where you are coming from. Again, I'm not saying you suffer from any of that but I am concerned about how many knuckle-draggers would go down the route I've described.

Fair play Oakie but the fact of the matter is that there are many independent countries living next door to each other who are close allies. Itseems obvious that, as a nation, our core values appear in conflict with those of the likes of England. We, in the majority, constantly vote for a progressive, inclusive left of centre political party. We downright rejected the values of Thatcher and the right wing of the tories. In fact the tories only ever did reasonably well when they called themselves the conservative and UNIONIST party. Me saying this may seem counterproductive to my claim for independence but they were never voted for in massive numbers. There will always be some in favour of the so called union. It's been a part of our lives for too long for it not to be the case.

The fact of the matter is that  we are being dictated to over the EU and many other issues. We have no real say in our own destiny. Our assembly is not truly a parliament. It can't rule on the really major international decisions.

The only way for us to have this is to be truly autonomous.

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15 hours ago, theknickerwetter said:

I don't know of a"form of independence"  that involves being in a Union. 

It sounds like you are another anti-England poster rather than a supporter of independence. 

 

Nice.

I'm pro-Scotland, the UK no longer works for Scotland as even Ruth Davidson acknowledges.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41454566

Oh and while we're on Ruth the polls in the article below clearly rattled her so much so she even forgot to smile! :lol: 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48675043

Like others have said it's clear where the negative sentiments are coming from in this debate.

 

Doubleplusnice! 

 

 

 

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49 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

I'm pro-Scotland, the UK no longer works for Scotland as even Ruth Davidson acknowledges.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41454566

Oh and while we're on Ruth the polls in the article below clearly rattled her so much so she even forgot to smile! :lol: 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48675043

Like others have said it's clear where the negative sentiments are coming from in this debate.

 

Doubleplusnice! 

 

 

 

I voted SNP for the reason I was told by the then leader Alec Salmond to get Devo Max. It made sense that Scotland had more control of its own destiny. No one ever envisgaed that 45% would say Yes

I want to put this into context....

The UK is in Meltdown over this 52-48 Brexit vote where 17.4 M people voted to leave the EU, the SNP got 45-55, more tax powers, no Uni fees, no prescriptions charges, no towns over run by ethnic majorities, no Thugs roaming the streats with big Knives .........................

SNP kid themselves on, they really do. The 2014 Whitepaper was built around Oil revenue , at a time when fossil fuels needed to be toned down, where exactly is our income going to come from - Whiskey?

I know its difficult with such wallopers at Westminster - but the SNPs must have a mandate- and they dont have one. 63% Brexit Remain is not a mandate, 45% Leave UK is not a mandate.......................

So I agree with Hunt- If Scotland gives the SNPs a massive endorsment at the elections in 2021 then ok talks can begin, but with the state of the world the last thing we need is to be a small independent country with Nuclear capability     

Edited by DougJamie
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31 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

I voted SNP for the reason I was told by the then leader Alec Salmond to get Devo Max. It made sense that Scotland had more control of its own destiny. No one ever envisgaed that 45% would say Yes

I want to put this into context....

The UK is in Meltdown over this 52-48 Brexit vote where 17.4 M people voted to leave the EU, the SNP got 45-55, more tax powers, no Uni fees, no prescriptions charges, no towns over run by ethnic majorities, no Thugs roaming the streats with big Knives .........................

SNP kid themselves on, they really do. The 2014 Whitepaper was built around Oil revenue , at a time when fossil fuels needed to be toned down, where exactly is our income going to come from - Whiskey? 

I know its difficult with such wallopers at Westminster - but the SNPs must have a mandate- and they dont have one. 63% Brexit Remain is not a mandate, 45% Leave UK is not a mandate.......................

So I agree with Hunt- If Scotland gives the SNPs a massive endorsment at the elections in 2021 then ok talks can begin, but with the state of the world the last thing we need is to be a small independent country with Nuclear capability     

We'll that's a vast improvement, it's only in the last week or so that RD and now JH seem to have come round to this POV that just leaves Labour's "northern branch" and the Lib-Dems "I support EuroRef2 but not IndyRef2" to go. Up until then all we heard was that Westminster wouldn't let us have one.

It's seems clear Better Together won't see unqualified support from English Tories if we have a second IndyRef.

********************

Of the other 27 EU countries 8 have populations smaller than Scotland 3 are similar (between 5-6 million) and another 7 with populations less than double ours  that's two-thirds of the countries in the EU, sure there'll be problems to overcome but the only people kidding themselves on that we couldn't be successful within the EU are those that want to stay in the UK - that's it put into context.

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2 hours ago, theknickerwetter said:

The Europe project went beyond a trading block decades ago, the hint is in the name Europe+n Union , a political and finacial Union that drains the wealth from countries along with their sovereignty , to think that you can have self-deternimism, independence or autonomy in such a set up is ludicrous

As far as leavers wanting WTO rules goes , you have missed the point on that one Buddie

The bit about numbers of English MP's etc sounds like the old chip on the shouldder or look what they did to us , in reality it is democracy in a union, a union that you want to substitute with another union in the name of independance which again is a simple paradox

seemingly independent countries across the world are members of customs unions, trading blocs and are party to a range of treaties on everything from trade to defence.

it's an interdependent world and yourchances are improved by the kind of alliances you form.  You give some stuff up and you get something in return.  Inside Europe, that's what we do and we wil have to do it outside the EU

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Guest TPAFKATS
I voted SNP for the reason I was told by the then leader Alec Salmond to get Devo Max. It made sense that Scotland had more control of its own destiny. No one ever envisgaed that 45% would say Yes
I want to put this into context....
The UK is in Meltdown over this 52-48 Brexit vote where 17.4 M people voted to leave the EU, the SNP got 45-55, more tax powers, no Uni fees, no prescriptions charges, no towns over run by ethnic majorities, no Thugs roaming the streats with big Knives .........................
SNP kid themselves on, they really do. The 2014 Whitepaper was built around Oil revenue , at a time when fossil fuels needed to be toned down, where exactly is our income going to come from - Whiskey?
I know its difficult with such wallopers at Westminster - but the SNPs must have a mandate- and they dont have one. 63% Brexit Remain is not a mandate, 45% Leave UK is not a mandate.......................
So I agree with Hunt- If Scotland gives the SNPs a massive endorsment at the elections in 2021 then ok talks can begin, but with the state of the world the last thing we need is to be a small independent country with Nuclear capability     
Given the amount of inaccuracies and utter nonsense in your post, I'd suggest you never vote again [emoji23]
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I know a sample of opinions as small as 7 is hardly statistically credible AND I am not trying to say it is, but in the past week 7 people who would "have never voted for SNP"  their words, have said things like "If that clown Boris Johnson becomes the next PM, I will vote for Nicola" 6 of those 7 also said,

"I would even now switch to independence, I don't want him making decisions for us under any circumstances"

I don't do politics really - I never started any of these conversations, and who knows, maybe there are Scottish voters who like Boris, but I personally have always thought he was the weird English version of Trump - i.e. a total clown who believes or pretends that he knows better than everyone else...

As a broad scoop - How many forum users think Boris would be good for Scotland/UK ?  :2cool

 

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9 minutes ago, Sweeper07 said:

I know a sample of opinions as small as 7 is hardly statistically credible AND I am not trying to say it is, but in the past week 7 people who would "have never voted for SNP"  their words, have said things like "If that clown Boris Johnson becomes the next PM, I will vote for Nicola" 6 of those 7 also said,

"I would even now switch to independence, I don't want him making decisions for us under any circumstances"

I don't do politics really - I never started any of these conversations, and who knows, maybe there are Scottish voters who like Boris, but I personally have always thought he was the weird English version of Trump - i.e. a total clown who believes or pretends that he knows better than everyone else...

As a broad scoop - How many forum users think Boris would be good for Scotland/UK ?  :2cool

 

Do these 7 include the made up Paisley taxi drivers you recently had an imaginary conversation about Shull? :lol:

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7 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

I'm pro-Scotland, the UK no longer works for Scotland as even Ruth Davidson acknowledges.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-41454566

Oh and while we're on Ruth the polls in the article below clearly rattled her so much so she even forgot to smile! :lol: 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-48675043

Like others have said it's clear where the negative sentiments are coming from in this debate.

 

Doubleplusnice! 

 

 

 

On the plus side. 160,000 tories will decide who our next PM is going to be. Democracy at work.

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Guest TPAFKATS
I really couldn't give a f**k that flies about what the fat Jimmy Crankie says but she does mention a 40% collapse in the last GE of the Scottish National Paradox vote , if your intention is to get into quotes
As a sausage fingered phone user myself I appreciate the issues of typos and autocorrect. However, I've now read this 3 times and I'm none the wiser.
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The Scottish Government are investing £20 million into Road Infrastructure in Scotland. 

I naively thought it would be to smooth out our third world roads. 

So wrong again, so I was. 

Why can't private companies do what the Government are planning ? 

 

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4 hours ago, theknickerwetter said:

I really couldn't give a f**k that flies about what the fat Jimmy Crankie says but she does mention a 40% collapse in the last GE of the Scottish National Paradox vote , if your intention is to get into quotes

Yeah sounds like it....

No doubting the SNP misjudged the popularity of "Independence in Europe" in 2017 but the Tories have failed to deliver what Leave campaigned for in 2016, essentially a soft Brexit, which Treeeeeza chose to ignore in favour of pandering to the right wing of her party and after losing her parliamentary majority the DUP. The two years since then have seen the two major parties at Westminster set new barriers for incontinence (sic) - the SNP are well within their rights to campaign on an "Independence in Europe" platform in 2021 and if the people of Scotland choose to stay with the omnishambles at Westminster then we deserve all we get.

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1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

Yeah sounds like it....

No doubting the SNP misjudged the popularity of "Independence in Europe" in 2017 but the Tories have failed to deliver what Leave campaigned for in 2016, essentially a soft Brexit, which Treeeeeza chose to ignore in favour of pandering to the right wing of her party and after losing her parliamentary majority the DUP. The two years since then have seen the two major parties at Westminster set new barriers for incontinence (sic) - the SNP are well within their rights to campaign on an "Independence in Europe" platform in 2021 and if the people of Scotland choose to stay with the omnishambles at Westminster then we deserve all we get.

So we will deserve all we get then, because PM Boris will kill devolved powers.........................

 

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23 hours ago, theknickerwetter said:

Sounds like it rotted half your brain sometime ago and it is certainly not my place to enquire as to how you got it

Thought it was Friday before the schools summer holidays started?

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Yes , i do believe you are right , what happened -did they let you out early or is Beyond his Ken ken , one of your aliases ?
You do understand that childish replies like this and the other one I quoted do your arguments no favour, don't you?
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11 hours ago, salmonbuddie said:

Thought it was Friday before the schools summer holidays started?

 

5 hours ago, salmonbuddie said:

You do understand that childish replies like this and the other one I quoted do your arguments no favour, don't you?

Seriously? You are as bad as each other.

Any chance the pair of you could go somewhere else with this nonsense? :blink:

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Seriously? You are as bad as each other.
Any chance the pair of you could go somewhere else with this nonsense? :blink:
This is a good example of why so many on here consider you a condescending buffoon.

What's childish about my posts? I was pointing out to the knickerwetter how those posts appeared to others, the first time I've replied to any of his/hers. The first of my posts was an indirect way of saying it, the second more direct. No childishness on my part.
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4 hours ago, salmonbuddie said:

This is a good example of why so many on here consider you a condescending buffoon.

What's childish about my posts? I was pointing out to the knickerwetter how those posts appeared to others, the first time I've replied to any of his/hers. The first of my posts was an indirect way of saying it, the second more direct. No childishness on my part.

This thread is perfect example of why Scottish Independence will never happen

 

"Couldnae agree on the colour of shite" - the only true quote from Braveheart

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This thread is perfect example of why Scottish Independence will never happen
 
"Couldnae agree on the colour of shite" - the only true quote from Braveheart
It's happening, DJ, the question now is when, not if, Boris and Brexit have seen to that.

Only my opinion, mind.
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8 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

This thread is perfect example of why Scottish Independence will never happen

 

"Couldnae agree on the colour of shite" - the only true quote from Braveheart

Or....................."The trouble with Scotland is its full of Scots"

edit to add: well it used to be :zipit

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