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Scottish Independence Referendum

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14 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Absolutely.

When the vote was as close as 55-45 it was always going to be the case that any sort of thing like the EU would have some impact.

We'll soon find out how much of an impact when indyref2 is called.

Those saying the EU thing was irrelevant are simply unhappy about the democratic process in action.

That's their problem TBH.

How many democratic processes do you want?

Oh I know, till you get your own way.

Hilarious.

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1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

 

Stuart, you must be the only person in the northern hemisphere who doesn't remember hearing Sturgeon repeatedly state that Scotland being dragged out of the EU against her will was grounds for another referendum.

Oh he heard alright.

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19 minutes ago, WeeBud said:

I know of "non-nationalists" who didn't vote for independence over the threat of not being part of the EU, the "nationalists" voted for independence irrespective of the EU vote

Aye?

So, you think there will be a mass movement towards independence because of us not being part of the EU?

I think people who didn't want it still don't and possibly more after experiencing the shambles the SNP make of running the country and local councils.

Just my opinion.

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Stuart, you must be the only person in the northern hemisphere who doesn't remember hearing Sturgeon repeatedly state that Scotland being dragged out of the EU against her will was grounds for another referendum.

It is not in the manifesto. She has no mandate. Indeed several who voted for the SNP said they would not do so if indy ref 2 was on their agenda.

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7 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

How many democratic processes do you want?

Oh I know, till you get your own way.

Hilarious.

Democratic processes can change from day to day, or year to year, in the usual cycle in the UK it is mandated at every 5 years now? But the will of the people ( democratic voters ) can change from day to day, but at the end of the election cycle they legitimately can change again. So how many democratic processes do you want? Just until you get your own way and then no more? ever? Now that isn't hilarious, it's ridiculous.

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3 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

Aye?

So, you think there will be a mass movement towards independence because of us not being part of the EU?

I think people who didn't want it still don't and possibly more after experiencing the shambles the SNP make of running the country and local councils.

Just my opinion.

I haven't really put forward my opinion FS just saying that I know people for whom the thought of being out of the EU made them pitch for "no" in the independence vote.

If you look at percentage difference between UK and EU refs then the 45/55 "no's" in the UK ref flips to 62/38 "remain". I'm not for a second suggesting that everyone who voted "remain" would now vote for "yes" but it certainly suggests that the threat of non-membership of the EU was a potential vote swayer.

 

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It's evident now that as a nation we're politically different to the English - this is not just my view but that of two of Scottish Labours recent leaders Henry McLeish (2000-2001) and Johann Lamont (2011-2014), is backed by the results of recent elections and confirmed by yesterday's Referendum.

The issue is whether yesterday's EU result significantly changes the status quo, my opinion is that it does and therefore we have the right to a second referendum to decide whether the Scottish people want the consensus politics of the EU or to find ourselves the ignored rump of the inward looking, right wing country that the UK will become.

There will be no third IndyRef.

 

Edited by Bud the Baker

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1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said:

It's evident now that as a nation we're politically different to the English - this is not just my view but that of two of Scottish Labours recent leaders Henry McLeish (2000-2001) Johann Lamont (2011-2014) is backed by the results of recent elections and confirmed by yesterday's Referendum.

 

"Evident".

Are you sure about that...?

So did ALL those millions of Remain votes come just from Scotland?

 

Let me try that angle...

It's evident now that as a nation we're politically no different to Londoners.

Methnks it needs some work.

 

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5 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

It is not in the manifesto. She has no mandate. Indeed several who voted for the SNP said they would not do so if indy ref 2 was on their agenda.

I don't really see any problem here, NS has stated that she will pursue legal channels for Indyref2 following Scotland voting to remain part of EU and being taken out because of the vote in the rest of the UK.  

Indyref2 will be a democratic yes/ no vote the same as the last one based on the outcome of an historic referendum.  If Scotland vote No again fine if they vote Yes then we break away from the UK.  It's democracy, just because it was a no vote in 2014 does not mean that we should never ever ever get another chance for independence.  If anything that's not democratic. 

The only reason Indyref2 is getting called is because of a fundamental change affecting the people of Scotland, if the Brexit/in had went other ways Indyref2 would not be discussed.  

I mean whats the problem? Scotland wants to remain in the EU - NS is exploring a way we can have a democratic vote to do this.  Well done her I fully support it

(not decided how I'll vote, want to see what information comes out and to be honest I think it's a wee bit narrow minded that you're a made up no supporter already without seeing any facts or information.  Reminds me of the unionist bigot Rangers fans we seen come out in numbers during 2014 that would vote no regardless of sense or fact) 

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4 minutes ago, northstbuddie said:

The 'Little England mentality'  has got its way.

What a sad and tragic day for the UK, Europe but especially Scotland who are once again getting a dose of UK democracy in action.

 

I agree.

Poor London.  Once again cheated out of its freedom...

(Am I doing this right?)

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Aye?

So, you think there will be a mass movement towards independence because of us not being part of the EU?

I think people who didn't want it still don't and possibly more after experiencing the shambles the SNP make of running the country and local councils.

Just my opinion.

It doesnt need to be a mass movement, just a 6% swing to change the outcome from 2014.

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How many pages did the Indy1 thread get? When is Indy2 happening anyway? A week on Thursday suits me. Everyone else OK with a week on Thursday? Will probably vote 'yes' again, and if 'no' wins out again, then I'll try my luck in Indy3, Indy4, and the Indianapolis 500.

Independence is coming. All it takes is Indy2, Indy3.... and by the time Indy9 comes around, any remaining 'no' voters will have thrown themselves off the Erskine Bridge, and the 'ayes' will have it. Get it fcuking sorted Sturgeon.

Saor Alba!

Edited by pozbaird

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30 minutes ago, antrin said:

"Evident".

Are you sure about that...?

So did ALL those millions of Remain votes come just from Scotland?

 

Let me try that angle...

It's evident now that as a nation we're politically no different to Londoners.

Methnks it needs some work.

Fine - let London form their own independence movement.

Edited by Bud the Baker

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34 minutes ago, antrin said:

I agree.

Poor London.  Once again cheated out of its freedom...

(Am I doing this right?)

Wasnt aware London was interested in independence.

Perhaps I missed something.

Are all your arguments going to be as daft as this one?

You almost sound as bad as buddieinEK for this tripe.

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That'll be the bit under "Scotland's future" in here

http://www.snp.org/the_snp_2016_manifesto_explained

"...if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will."

Doesn't get much more straightforward than that.

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No it's not. At one point my family had 7 generations on the go. The oldest one was actually about 6 months younger than her aunty - my great-great-aunt - and one of my cousins was a great-granny. 7 generations.

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I think NS has to be a bit cautious here. If you look to Quebec, they had two attempts at independence in 90 and 95 (i think) and then nothing since.

With the price of oil pretty low, I would give the 2nd referendum a miss just now...

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And it was the English who voted to leave, whilst the Scots would have stayed, and negated the  Jolly jape that you are referring to?

You fictitious teutonic wannabe vampires need to chill out in the sun dude lol

Errrrrr no... It was UK citizens resident in England... not "the English".

Scotland by a majority elected to remain in the UK.

This was not a Scottish vote but a U.K. one to which we willingly and democratically signed up.

I still see a strong Scotland as part of a strong federal U.K. which has freedom to have an elected Government which is answerable to the voters as the best way forward.

The fact that we can still embrace our European cousins and welcome/employ/marry them as we see fit is a plus.

We are leaving the EU which was going to crash anyway under the weight of trying to standardise too many variables on an effort to form a United States of Europe.

I genuinely see tgat as a self determining escape.

We are still in Europe and you can guarantee that when the dust settles, trade agreements will be made and our economy can grow.

Immigration will continue, and Europeans will still be welcome in the U.K..

The drama queens are wailing and gnashing their teeth... Mostly fuelled by the separatists.

SNP hq were actively telephoning their membes yesterday and reminding them to vote Remain! What business was that of theirs? Are all party members of any political party not free to make their own decisions?

That was a calculated effort to force Indy2 and was so predictable.

This vote was bigger than that and so should the voters who participated in a democratic process be.

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I know it's a foreign concept to supporters of unionist/Westminster parties but it's a manifesto commitment and as such the SNP must, not might, carry it out.

Where was it in their manifesto?

Did Nicola Sturgeon not promise to serve all Scots of all political persuasions?

Are a million of them now irrelevant?

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