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Scottish Independence Referendum

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If the Tories can manage to stay in the single market and to retain freedom of movement, I think that's a pretty good deal.

I just want the country, wether it be Independent or part of the UK to be ran by normal, "truthful" centre ground politicians. I'm fed up of the Far Right and their rhetoric and I'm equally fed up of the Far Left tree huggers who want to eat lentils and never work a day in their lives.

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If the Tories can manage to stay in the single market and to retain freedom of movement, I think that's a pretty good deal.

I just want the country, wether it be Independent or part of the UK to be ran by normal, "truthful" centre ground politicians. I'm fed up of the Far Right and their rhetoric and I'm equally fed up of the Far Left tree huggers who want to eat lentils and never work a day in their lives.



Sorry? What?

Stay in the single market, for which they will have to agree to freedom of movement, implementation of lots of EU laws / regulations and also pay lots of money into the EU. No rebate, no EU funding and no "seat at the table".

Freedom of movement is what a lot of Leave voters thought they were voting to stop.

Paying money into the EU is what a lot of Leave voters thought they were voting to stop.

Having to implement EU laws is what a lot of Leave voters thought they were voting to stop.

The EU is going to make an example of the UK to discourage other countries from leaving, anyone who thinks otherwise is naive, which will result in either the UK leaving totally with a shitty deal or finding a way to not leave the EU at all, either via a Commons vote or via another referendum.

But, yes, lentil soup is nice. :)

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6 hours ago, TopCat said:

 

 

 

 


That's an interesting point and one I've heard a few times recently. I think Nicola is a good politician, her voting numbers speak for themselves. She knows what she's doing and she has almost god like status within her own party. It's clear she isn't getting through to those who aren't SNP supporters though.

She's caught between a rock and a hard place just now. She either calls a referendum knowing fine well she will almost certainly lose, or alienates a big chunk of her party who want indyref2 yesterday.

The other disadvantage to yessers to no indy ref this parliament is the quite possible scenario of no pro indy majority in Holyrood after the next Scottish elections. Ruth's Tories are making gains all over the place, and a recent poll showed she currently had higher approval ratings than Sturgeon. If the Tory surge continues at the current rate the SNP will remain in power in Holyrood but lose their pro independence majority. In that scenario, they couldn't call a referendum in the next parliament even if they wanted to.
 

 

 

If we have a second Euro Referendum like a number of old-lag politicians like Tony Blair and John Major and others are calling for then any credible arguments against a second IndyRef are out the window.

Never say never.....................

Edited by Bud the Baker

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The UK will leave the EU and when we do the whole EU will disintegrate. None of the major partners in the EU want freedom of movement anymore and if the likes of Hungary cannot have free trade with the UK, a major export market for them, they'll quit the EU.

What will be interesting will be to see if NATO will protect the likes of Ukraine and Finland if Russia continue to push expansionist plans and whether Trump will carry out his threat to leave the likes of Serbia, Slovakia and Slovenia to fend for itself since they have failed to meet their NATO obligations.


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The UK will leave the EU and when we do the whole EU will disintegrate. None of the major partners in the EU want freedom of movement anymore and if the likes of Hungary cannot have free trade with the UK, a major export market for them, they'll quit the EU.

What will be interesting will be to see if NATO will protect the likes of Ukraine and Finland if Russia continue to push expansionist plans and whether Trump will carry out his threat to leave the likes of Serbia, Slovakia and Slovenia to fend for itself since they have failed to meet their NATO obligations.





In 2014, Hungary's biggest export markets were Germany, Romania, Italy, Austria and the USA, we didn't even make it into the top 5. The USA, at 5th, accounted for $4.88bn of $106bn of exports, we were obviously less than that. Even if you say that they exported $4bn worth of stuff to the UK (it could have been a lot less, but not much more), that would only be about 3.8% of their exports.

You're talking shit again.

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/***/

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8 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

 


In 2014, Hungary's biggest export markets were Germany, Romania, Italy, Austria and the USA, we didn't even make it into the top 5. The USA, at 5th, accounted for $4.88bn of $106bn of exports, we were obviously less than that. Even if you say that they exported $4bn worth of stuff to the UK (it could have been a lot less, but not much more), that would only be about 3.8% of their exports.

You're talking shit again.

http://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/***/

 

I didn't say we were their biggest export market, but we are a major export market for them. Look further into your article and you discover that a large number of their exports are to Germany in the form of car parts and car engines. 810,000 of those cars every year are then sold to the UK. Put trade barriers in place and Hungary undoubtedly suffers. Hungary are already on the brink of leaving the EU anyway. 98% of those Hungarians who voted in a referendum in October rejected EU migrant quotas. 

Still, what's a few £billion amongst friends eh? The Scottish Government relies on UK subsidies three times that, just to balance the spending to tax revenue deficit in Scotland. 

Edited by Stuart Dickson

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I didn't say we were their biggest export market, but we are a major export market for them. Look further into your article and you discover that a large number of their exports are to Germany in the form of car parts and car engines. 810,000 of those cars every year are then sold to the UK. Put trade barriers in place and Hungary undoubtedly suffers. Hungary are already on the brink of leaving the EU anyway. 98% of those Hungarians who voted in a referendum in October rejected EU migrant quotas. 

Still, what's a few £billion amongst friends eh? The Scottish Government relies on UK subsidies three times that, just to balance the spending to tax revenue deficit in Scotland. 



What a pile if wanky pish...

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I didn't say we were their biggest export market, but we are a major export market for them. Look further into your article and you discover that a large number of their exports are to Germany in the form of car parts and car engines. 810,000 of those cars every year are then sold to the UK. Put trade barriers in place and Hungary undoubtedly suffers. Hungary are already on the brink of leaving the EU anyway. 98% of those Hungarians who voted in a referendum in October rejected EU migrant quotas. 

Still, what's a few £billion amongst friends eh? The Scottish Government relies on UK subsidies three times that, just to balance the spending to tax revenue deficit in Scotland. 

Stop wriggling.

Are you trying to say that about 3.8% makes us a major export market?

Country of origin for car parts does not equate to the UK importing from that country. If we import sugar from Barbados but Barbados gets it's fertiliser from Jamaica, do you class that as us importing from Jamaica?

As I said, you're talking shit.

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8 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Stop wriggling.

Are you trying to say that about 3.8% makes us a major export market?

Country of origin for car parts does not equate to the UK importing from that country. If we import sugar from Barbados but Barbados gets it's fertiliser from Jamaica, do you class that as us importing from Jamaica?

As I said, you're talking shit.

So what happens to Hungary's exports if the UK stops buying German cars? 

You know I'm right. Hungary are angry enough with the EU without having to deal with the loss of jobs that would come from the UK being allowed to leave without a free trade agreement. 

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So what happens to Hungary's exports if the UK stops buying German cars? 

You know I'm right. Hungary are angry enough with the EU without having to deal with the loss of jobs that would come from the UK being allowed to leave without a free trade agreement. 



The UK won't stop buying German cars so you point is moot.

Now answer the questions and stop wriggling.

Does 3.8% make us a major export market?

Under the scenario mentioned, would you class it as the UK importing from Jamaica?

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4 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:

 


The UK won't stop buying German cars so you point is moot.

Now answer the questions and stop wriggling.

Does 3.8% make us a major export market?

Under the scenario mentioned, would you class it as the UK importing from Jamaica?

 

3.8% of total exports in terms of an Independent Scotland would be absolutely massive. 

A breakdown of Scotlands export markets in 2014 

64% to the Rest of the UK

15% to the Rest of the EU

3% to the Rest of Europe. 

17% to the rest of the world. 

An Independent Scotland would be f**ked without that money. 

Edited by Stuart Dickson

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3.8% of total exports in terms of an Independent Scotland would be absolutely massive. 

A breakdown of Scotlands export markets in 2014 

64% to the Rest of the UK

15% to the Rest of the EU

3% to the Rest of Europe. 

17% to the rest of the world. 

An Independent Scotland would be f**ked without that money. 



What a pile of wanky pish...

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The UK won't stop buying German cars so you point is moot.

Now answer the questions and stop wriggling.

Does 3.8% make us a major export market?

Under the scenario mentioned, would you class it as the UK importing from Jamaica?

3.8% of total exports in terms of an Independent Scotland would be absolutely massive. 

A breakdown of Scotlands export markets in 2014 

64% to the Rest of the UK

15% to the Rest of the EU

3% to the Rest of Europe. 

17% to the rest of the world. 

An Independent Scotland would be f**ked without that money. 


So to summarise, you can't answer the questions or as salmonbuddie put it.




What a pile of wanky pish...

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3.8% of total exports in terms of an Independent Scotland would be absolutely massive. 

A breakdown of Scotlands export markets in 2014 

64% to the Rest of the UK

15% to the Rest of the EU

3% to the Rest of Europe. 

17% to the rest of the world. 

An Independent Scotland would be f**ked without that money. 



What has a hypothetical independent Scotland got to do with how much Hungary exports to the UK?

You're just trying to change the subject because you know that you've made a c**t of yourself, again.

But, to humour you, how much of the 64% that is "exported" to the rest of the UK is actually really just stuff getting moved there before being sent abroad? I can tell you the answer, if you want.

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What has a hypothetical independent Scotland got to do with how much Hungary exports to the UK?

You're just trying to change the subject because you know that you've made a c**t of yourself, again.

But, to humour you, how much of the 64% that is "exported" to the rest of the UK is actually really just stuff getting moved there before being sent abroad? I can tell you the answer, if you want.


I haven't made a c**t of myself at all. Its you that is making a c**t of yourself. Hungary is already on the brink of leaving the EU. A referendum on EU migrant quotas was rejected by 98% of those who voted. The prospect of being denied free trade with the UK, a major export market for them, would push them even further over the edge. That is all fact.

You then came up with a figure of 3.8% and claimed that meant the UK was not a significant export market. I've simply shown in terms everyone can understand why it is significant and how it would be an absolute folly to impose trade restrictions on a major export market.

Now perhaps we should visit the SNP policy of agitating for separation from an export market that accounted for 64% of all Scottish exports in 2014. Do you think that is insignificant also?

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I haven't made a c**t of myself at all. Its you that is making a c**t of yourself. Hungary is already on the brink of leaving the EU. A referendum on EU migrant quotas was rejected by 98% of those who voted. The prospect of being denied free trade with the UK, a major export market for them, would push them even further over the edge. That is all fact.

You then came up with a figure of 3.8% and claimed that meant the UK was not a significant export market. I've simply shown in terms everyone can understand why it is significant and how it would be an absolute folly to impose trade restrictions on a major export market.

Now perhaps we should visit the SNP policy of agitating for separation from an export market that accounted for 64% of all Scottish exports in 2014. Do you think that is insignificant also?


You say that you haven't made a c**t of yourself and then continue to post all that shit? You're obviously also deluded.

I never "came up with a figure of 3.8%", I specifically said how it had been calculated. Just because you can't understand it, doesn't make it wrong.

It's actually quite funny that you believe that you've "simply shown" anything at all. If you want to simply show something something then answer the questions I asked. This would result in clarification of the thought processes which allowed you to come to the conclusions in the statements you have made.

For clarity, I fully expect you not to answer the questions since you can't without contradicting your previous statements.

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I haven't made a c**t of myself at all. Its you that is making a c**t of yourself. Hungary is already on the brink of leaving the EU. A referendum on EU migrant quotas was rejected by 98% of those who voted. The prospect of being denied free trade with the UK, a major export market for them, would push them even further over the edge. That is all fact.

You then came up with a figure of 3.8% and claimed that meant the UK was not a significant export market. I've simply shown in terms everyone can understand why it is significant and how it would be an absolute folly to impose trade restrictions on a major export market.

Now perhaps we should visit the SNP policy of agitating for separation from an export market that accounted for 64% of all Scottish exports in 2014. Do you think that is insignificant also?


What a pile of wanky pish...

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3.8% of total exports in terms of an Independent Scotland would be absolutely massive. 

A breakdown of Scotlands export markets in 2014 

64% to the Rest of the UK

15% to the Rest of the EU

3% to the Rest of Europe. 

17% to the rest of the world. 

An Independent Scotland would be f**ked without that money. 


No, 3.8% would still only amount to 3.8% of Scotland's exports.
So you either regard 3.8% as being absolutely massive for all or for none.
That's kinda how percentages work. Looks like you weren't paying attention at school that day

Of course if you claim 3.8% of an independent Scotlands exports would be absolutely massive, just think how big a market 100% would be.
Saor Alba

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4 minutes ago, tony soprano said:


No, 3.8% would still only amount to 3.8% of Scotland's exports.
So you either regard 3.8% as being absolutely massive for all or for none.
That's kinda how percentages work. Looks like you weren't paying attention at school that day

Of course if you claim 3.8% of an independent Scotlands exports would be absolutely massive, just think how big a market 100% would be.
Saor Alba

It's your comprehension skills that are in doubt. I was saying that a loss of 3.8% of Scottish exports would be absolutely massive to an Independent Scotland - and the point I went on to make was that it would be stupid to be in a situation where we had trade and border barriers affecting our biggest export market, the 64% to the rest of the UK. That would indeed leave Alba's arse awfy sore. 

Edited by Stuart Dickson

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