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Scottish Independence Referendum

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On 12/1/2016 at 6:46 PM, Slartibartfast said:

 


Sorry? What?

Stay in the single market, for which they will have to agree to freedom of movement, implementation of lots of EU laws / regulations and also pay lots of money into the EU. No rebate, no EU funding and no "seat at the table".

Freedom of movement is what a lot of Leave voters thought they were voting to stop.

Paying money into the EU is what a lot of Leave voters thought they were voting to stop.

Having to implement EU laws is what a lot of Leave voters thought they were voting to stop.

The EU is going to make an example of the UK to discourage other countries from leaving, anyone who thinks otherwise is naive, which will result in either the UK leaving totally with a shitty deal or finding a way to not leave the EU at all, either via a Commons vote or via another referendum.

But, yes, lentil soup is nice. :)

 

EEA/EFTA countries are in the single market and do agree FOM. But article 112-113 of the EEA treaty is about "safeguard measures" and allows any signatory to the treaty to call a halt or decide how many it allows in to work in the national interest. It can halt it unilaterally. It also allows a state to stop the flow of capital or goods as well. Leichtenstein have limited freedom of movement to work and have used this article in the treaty for 21 years. Austria used It prior to joining the EU. Iceland used it to stop capital flight during their banking crisis. It can be temporary or it can be permanent. Up to the member state. I didn't vote to stop freedom of movement to work.

 

To be in the single market you agree to the trade acquis which is less than a quarter of all EU law. Much of that trade regulation is made at WTO level where we would regain our seat, so we WOULD be fashioning trade rules which are THEN implemented by the EU. Standardisation is becoming globalised now and the EU is increasingly simpkly adopting rules from above. Rules we cant shape just now but which we will be able to do once we are out.

 

No EEA/EFTA member state pays any money into the EU. They pay into EEA grants which are definitely not part of the EU budget.

 

The EU may decide to punish. But its highly unlikely as they self harm if they do. The smart money is on the UK being parked in the likes of the EEA short term which secures all trade both ways. The rest of the acquis gets unpicked as they arise.

 

There is zero chance of us being asked whether we want to stay in again.

 

At the end of the article 50 period, if parliament decides it must vote on the final deal the fair enough. Vote away. If it rejects it then we are out regardless. It just means we go to WTO rules and a very hard brexit indeed which will harm trade. Theres no chance they will vote to do that.

 

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

 

This is the plan being passed round Whitehall just now. Whether they use it in full or make their own modifications? Who knows? But its the clear sensible path out.

 

The main problem just now is that the likes of the Norway model (the EEA route out)was trashed on both sides of the referendum campaign and a lot of the total misinformation you spouted has become mainstream thinking. But it bears no resemblance to reality.

 

 

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Article 112-113 has been looked at several times since being first inserted into the EEA treaty. The last time was last year and it was kept in.

 

If the EU had actually just adopted this in the first place then its possible we would have remained.But they didn't because they are imbeciles.

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He was concentrating too much on not replying to me (ever since I reminded him that he claims to have me on ignore) that he forgot that he was supposed to have you on ignore as well.

 

"Fish" and "barrel" spring to mind for some reason.



That sounds like one of his stories.

I was talking to Fish in the Wee Barrel about...... And he agreed...... Wank, pish, wank, pish.........

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4 hours ago, Reynard said:

EEA/EFTA countries are in the single market and do agree FOM. But article 112-113 of the EEA treaty is about "safeguard measures" and allows any signatory to the treaty to call a halt or decide how many it allows in to work in the national interest. It can halt it unilaterally. It also allows a state to stop the flow of capital or goods as well. Leichtenstein have limited freedom of movement to work and have used this article in the treaty for 21 years. Austria used It prior to joining the EU. Iceland used it to stop capital flight during their banking crisis. It can be temporary or it can be permanent. Up to the member state. I didn't vote to stop freedom of movement to work.

 

To be in the single market you agree to the trade acquis which is less than a quarter of all EU law. Much of that trade regulation is made at WTO level where we would regain our seat, so we WOULD be fashioning trade rules which are THEN implemented by the EU. Standardisation is becoming globalised now and the EU is increasingly simpkly adopting rules from above. Rules we cant shape just now but which we will be able to do once we are out.

 

No EEA/EFTA member state pays any money into the EU. They pay into EEA grants which are definitely not part of the EU budget.

 

The EU may decide to punish. But its highly unlikely as they self harm if they do. The smart money is on the UK being parked in the likes of the EEA short term which secures all trade both ways. The rest of the acquis gets unpicked as they arise.

 

There is zero chance of us being asked whether we want to stay in again.

 

At the end of the article 50 period, if parliament decides it must vote on the final deal the fair enough. Vote away. If it rejects it then we are out regardless. It just means we go to WTO rules and a very hard brexit indeed which will harm trade. Theres no chance they will vote to do that.

 

http://www.eureferendum.com/documents/flexcit.pdf

 

This is the plan being passed round Whitehall just now. Whether they use it in full or make their own modifications? Who knows? But its the clear sensible path out.

 

The main problem just now is that the likes of the Norway model (the EEA route out)was trashed on both sides of the referendum campaign and a lot of the total misinformation you spouted has become mainstream thinking. But it bears no resemblance to reality.

 

 

You basically agree with everything I said, just going into more detail and trying to spin it, and then say that I'm spouting misinformation.  That would make your post misinformation too.

You really aren't very good at this.

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15 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

You basically agree with everything I said, just going into more detail and trying to spin it, and then say that I'm spouting misinformation.  That would make your post misinformation too.

You really aren't very good at this.

You promised me Reynard had been "telt" and was going to disappear.

Hmmmmph.

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40 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

You basically agree with everything I said, just going into more detail and trying to spin it, and then say that I'm spouting misinformation.  That would make your post misinformation too.

You really aren't very good at this.

Well you weren't being very accurate. You can be now after finding out some things that you had no idea about.

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45 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You promised me Reynard had been "telt" and was going to disappear.

Hmmmmph.

I didn't say for ever.  Admittedly, he is back quicker than normal but he's "doing a Dickson" and proving my point for me.  I just don't think that he's intelligent enough to realise it.

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21 minutes ago, Reynard said:

Well you weren't being very accurate. You can be now after finding out some things that you had no idea about.

I find out things every day that I had little or no idea about, it's part of my job and I'm very good at it.  What you're referring to is anyone's guess, though.

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6 hours ago, tony soprano said:


Yes, it was the dumbf**k from Wishaw

No it wasn't. If you go back and read my posts properly you will see that when asked - if 3.8% is major what is 96.2% my response was "a lot more". I have never once claimed that any loss of trade should be dismissed. But thanks for providing us all with the proof that to vote SNP you have to have something lacking in your education. I guess you just have to hope that one day you'll be able to get some brain cells free on prescription :rolleyes: 

Edited by Stuart Dickson

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No it wasn't. If you go back and read my posts properly you will see that when asked - if 3.8% is major what is 96.2% my response was "a lot more". I have never once claimed that any loss of trade should be dismissed. But thanks for providing us all with the proof that to vote SNP you have to have something lacking in your education. I guess you just have to hope that one day you'll be able to get some brain cells free on prescription :rolleyes: 


You don't understand simple arithmetic and now you show you have no understanding of percentages.

You really are a lost cause

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Just now, tony soprano said:


You don't understand simple arithmetic and now you show you have no understanding of percentages.

You really are a lost cause

I think you are lost. 

I haven't attempted any sort of mathematical or arithmetical calculation. I've simply pointed out that for Hungary to lose a major export market like the UK it would be catastrophic for them. You and your fellow idiots have struggled since then to comprehend what that means. I pity you. 

 

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No it wasn't. If you go back and read my posts properly you will see that when asked - if 3.8% is major what is 96.2% my response was "a lot more". I have never once claimed that any loss of trade should be dismissed. But thanks for providing us all with the proof that to vote SNP you have to have something lacking in your education. I guess you just have to hope that one day you'll be able to get some brain cells free on prescription :rolleyes: 


I think you are lost. 

I haven't attempted any sort of mathematical or arithmetical calculation. I've simply pointed out that for Hungary to lose a major export market like the UK it would be catastrophic for them. You and your fellow idiots have struggled since then to comprehend what that means. I pity you. 

 



What a pile of wanky pish...

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I think you are lost. 

I haven't attempted any sort of mathematical or arithmetical calculation. I've simply pointed out that for Hungary to lose a major export market like the UK it would be catastrophic for them. You and your fellow idiots have struggled since then to comprehend what that means. I pity you. 

 



I know you don't mean it but, sometimes, you can be really funny. You make me laugh, anyway.

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I think you are lost. 

I haven't attempted any sort of mathematical or arithmetical calculation. I've simply pointed out that for Hungary to lose a major export market like the UK it would be catastrophic for them. You and your fellow idiots have struggled since then to comprehend what that means. I pity you. 

 


You think 3.8% is major

I'll try one last time to help you.
Think of a pizza, do you like pizza Stuey?
If you lose 3.8% of your pizza would it be catastrophic?

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Just now, tony soprano said:


You think 3.8% is major emoji3.png

I'll try one last time to help you.
Think of a pizza, do you like pizza Stuey?
If you lose 3.8% of your pizza would it be catastrophic?

Oh good. So yet another Natsi who would dismiss the loss of 3.8% of our exports as being unimportant. 

You do know that in Scottish terms that would equate to the loss of £2.8Bn worth of business don't you? 

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13 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Oh good. So yet another Natsi who would dismiss the loss of 3.8% of our exports as being unimportant. 

You do know that in Scottish terms that would equate to the loss of £2.8Bn worth of business don't you? 

As an aside, I do have to wonder why you believe that the UK will lose ALL 3.8%. We may lose some of it but why do you think we will lose ALL of it? You pull this same nonsense with the independence debate.

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You think 3.8% is major

I'll try one last time to help you.
Think of a pizza, do you like pizza Stuey?
If you lose 3.8% of your pizza would it be catastrophic?


Just to help him, I should point out that it would be like cutting a pizza into 24 equal slices and losing less than one of them. You could actually cut it into 26 equal slices and lose less than one but he would be away for days trying to figure out how to cut it into 26 equal slices - and then forget why he was working it out in the first place.

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Oh good. So yet another Natsi who would dismiss the loss of 3.8% of our exports as being unimportant. 

You do know that in Scottish terms that would equate to the loss of £2.8Bn worth of business don't you? 



But it would still only be 3.8% irrespective of whether it was £2 or £2bn. In fact, in a way, the higher the monetary value of the 3.8%, the less of an effect it would have overall.

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18 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:


But it would still only be 3.8% irrespective of whether it was £2 or £2bn. In fact, in a way, the higher the monetary value of the 3.8%, the less of an effect it would have overall.

 

Whatever the monetary value I would not want to lose any of it. 

Tell me Slarti - if your boss offers you a 3.8% wage cut in your annual review will you write it off as insignificant? 

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Whatever the monetary value I would not want to lose any of it. 

Tell me Slarti - if your boss offers you a 3.8% wage cut in your annual review will you write it off as insignificant? 



Who said, or even implied, that 3.8% was "insignificant"? You obviously don't understand what's been said.

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I haven't attempted any sort of mathematical or arithmetical calculation.



Achem


3.8% of total exports in terms of an Independent Scotland would be absolutely massive. 

A breakdown of Scotlands export markets in 2014 

64% to the Rest of the UK

15% to the Rest of the EU

3% to the Rest of Europe. 

17% to the rest of the world. 

An Independent Scotland would be f**ked without that money.


As we can see, you can't even add up to 100.

#Thichasfcuk

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