The Politics Thread

[Stuart Dickson]

16 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

 

Indeed, I would suggest that anyone who thinks the UK is the better economic bet long term is naïve.

Sterling is certainly a better long term bet than the Euro. I think there's no doubt about that. The EU has been shaken up badly by the vote last Thursday. Many more member states will be calling for a referendum for their people and high on the agenda in each one of those countries will be the effects of Freedom of Movement. What the EU tried to do was always flawed. You cannot have a group of countries with such financial disparity join as members of a single currency with open borders without damaging the prospects of both the poorer country, who loses it's skilled workforce as they chase higher wages and better prospects elsewhere, and of the wealthier country who sees an influx of people with differing cultures and languages to their own. Like the USSR and indeed the British and Ottoman Empires before it found out you just cannot keep all of the member states happy under those conditions. 

Like you I voted to remain in but wasn't too fussed either way. The fiscal argument wasn't made well enough for me to vote leave. But I don't see any evidence that the UK will be in a worse state for more than a short period of uncertainty either, whilst I do see signs of some real problems within the EU including the rise of right wing nationalist governments. 

Edited June 28, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[oaksoft]

3 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said:

I see the markets are going as I predicted. Today the pound rallied and stocks rose, whilst elsewhere demand for German bonds stalled and the Yen and the Dollar lost ground in the global markets. It's obvious that Brexit was going to have implications for the Euro too as the shock of losing it's second biggest economy hit home and that the UK market would correct itself after the initial knee jerk reaction when people started to realise that actually there is no drama here. Life is continuing as normal. 

Sturgeons window of opportunity to convince Scots that voting to leave the UK would be a good idea is closing fast. No-one in Scotland would be interested in being part of the next Greek bail out. 

FFS Stuart. At this moment in time across the UK, people from other countries who have chosen to make the UK their home are being subjected to levels of appalling racist abuse not seen since the 1970s and you are wittering on like a stupid f**kwit about barbed wire and the price of the pound against the dollar.

Is it possible for you to ever see the bigger picture as it relates to others who ARE affected by this vote?

[Stuart Dickson]

51 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

FFS Stuart. At this moment in time across the UK, people from other countries who have chosen to make the UK their home are being subjected to levels of appalling racist abuse not seen since the 1970s and you are wittering on like a stupid f**kwit about barbed wire and the price of the pound against the dollar.

Is it possible for you to ever see the bigger picture as it relates to others who ARE affected by this vote?

Come off it Oaksoft, you're beyond the sensationalism of newspaper reports on a handful of racist incidents are you not? Al-Jazeera are reporting that the anti racist group "Far Right Watch" - who clearly do have an agenda - has recorded 90 incidents in the last 3 days across the whole of the UK. To put that into context that's 30 racist incidents per day amongst a population of 64 million. Perhaps "Far Right Watch" should be looking at the left. There's been more instances of abuse against "White Settlers" in the Highlands and Islands every day for years and of course during the build up and aftermath of the Scottish Referendum there was plenty of threats of violence and name calling going on - usually from Yes voters targeting business people who had declared themselves to be "No" voters. 

Nothing has changed in the UK since Thursday, nothing - despite all the hysteria. We're even still in the EU FFS and we've still got no control over immigration. And the state of our economy and how much the pound is worth versus other currencies has a very profound effect on us all. Fortunately it appears the markets have stabilised and common sense is beginning to kick in. 

On another note, does anyone know the address of my nearest foodbank. It appears I have 50 tins of soup and 50 tins of beans more than I actually needed. 

 

Edited June 29, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Stuart Dickson
Must have double clicked.

[Bud the Baker]

8 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Sterling is certainly a better long term bet than the Euro. I think there's no doubt about that. The EU has been shaken up badly by the vote last Thursday. Many more member states will be calling for a referendum for their people and high on the agenda in each one of those countries will be the effects of Freedom of Movement. What the EU tried to do was always flawed. You cannot have a group of countries with such financial disparity join as members of a single currency with open borders without damaging the prospects of both the poorer country, who loses it's skilled workforce as they chase higher wages and better prospects elsewhere, and of the wealthier country who sees an influx of people with differing cultures and languages to their own. Like the USSR and indeed the British and Ottoman Empires before it found out you just cannot keep all of the member states happy under those conditions. 

Like you I voted to remain in but wasn't too fussed either way. The fiscal argument wasn't made well enough for me to vote leave. But I don't see any evidence that the UK will be in a worse state for more than a short period of uncertainty either, whilst I do see signs of some real problems within the EU including the rise of right wing nationalist governments. 

Well we're not going to agree on this but I still see the EU as a better long term bet economically and like I explained previously none of these right wing EU governments (if they even come about) will be as right wing as the Conservative one we have now which I predict will lurch even further to the right to appease UKIP and it's own free-marketeers.

 

The main difference between the EU and the empires you're comparing them with is that no EU country has been co-opted at forced to remain at gunpoint so I suggest it's a poor analogy.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Bud the Baker

[BuddieinEK]

Well we're not going to agree on this but I still see the EU as a better long term bet economically and like I explained previously none of these right wing EU governments (if they even come about) will be as right wing as the Conservative one we have now which I predict will lurch even further to the right to appease UKIP and it's own free-marketeers.

I dont think there IS an economic long term for the EU.

Trying to standardise 28 extreme variables was always going to end in tears.

[ford prefect]

5 days after the referendum and the sky hasn't caved in so it was the right decision. Ffs. It's a fact that in the 50s and 60s the UK Gdp growth was lower than the European countries tied together. I guess we'll have to see if history repeats. But don't let that get in the road of the chance of a bit of trolling!

[Bud the Baker]

2 hours ago, BuddieinEK said:

I dont think there IS an economic long term for the EU.

Trying to standardise 28 extreme variables was always going to end in tears.

We've had a global recession but this was not due to the EU, it's been a bumpy ride (for Greece especially) but no institutions have collapsed as yet and who's to say how bad it would have been without the EU - that's just unknowable.

I believe the EU will survive without the UK that there will be no Armageddon in either and that it comes down to who you want to align yourself with - you go with Nigel, I prefer Nicola.

[BuddieinEK]

We've had a global recession but this was not due to the EU, it's been a bumpy ride (for Greece especially) but no institutions have collapsed as yet and who's to say how bad it would have been without the EU - that's just unknowable.

I believe the EU will survive without the UK that there will be no Armageddon in either and that it comes down to who you want to align yourself with - you go with Nigel, I prefer Nicola.

Aye... Very good.

Trying to have a serious discyssion and as usual, the low blow insults surface.

Can you not help yourself?

Is it too difficult to simply try and make a point?

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Aye... Very good.

Trying to have a serious discyssion and as usual, the low blow insults surface.

Can you not help yourself?

Is it too difficult to simply try and make a point?

I'm genuinely not seeing any low blow insults in his post?

[WeeBud]

7 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Come off it Oaksoft, you're beyond the sensationalism of newspaper reports on a handful of racist incidents are you not? Al-Jazeera are reporting that the anti racist group "Far Right Watch" - who clearly do have an agenda - has recorded 90 incidents in the last 3 days across the whole of the UK. To put that into context that's 30 racist incidents per day amongst a population of 64 million. Perhaps "Far Right Watch" should be looking at the left. There's been more instances of abuse against "White Settlers" in the Highlands and Islands every day for years and of course during the build up and aftermath of the Scottish Referendum there was plenty of threats of violence and name calling going on - usually from Yes voters targeting business people who had declared themselves to be "No" voters. 

Nothing has changed in the UK since Thursday, nothing - despite all the hysteria. We're even still in the EU FFS and we've still got no control over immigration. And the state of our economy and how much the pound is worth versus other currencies has a very profound effect on us all. Fortunately it appears the markets have stabilised and common sense is beginning to kick in. 

On another note, does anyone know the address of my nearest foodbank. It appears I have 50 tins of soup and 50 tins of beans more than I actually needed. 

 

Are you seriously suggesting that there are more than 30 recorded racist incidents against "white settlers" in the Highlands and Islands, I can't wait to see your source for this!! In Argyll and Bute there was a 59% vote in favour of remaining in the UK (probably one of the highest returns of "No" in the referendum).

I am originally from the Islands and although I wouldn't say I'd never heard anything untoward it is certainly nothing compared to the blatant racism I heard when I lived down south.

[BuddieinEK]

I'm genuinely not seeing any low blow insults in his post?

Maybe being told you are aligning yourself with Farage isn't insulting to you, but it is certainly not something I wish to be associated with.

[Bud the Baker]

1 hour ago, BuddieinEK said:

 

 

Aye... Very good.

 

Trying to have a serious discyssion and as usual, the low blow insults surface.

 

Can you not help yourself?

 

Is it too difficult to simply try and make a point?

My point is we're here, now where do we want to go?

I understand your point of view, disagree with it and will continue to say so, but if you want to stay in the UK then do you disagree that we'll have a Conservative government trying to appeal to UKIP voters? I reckon saying you have to choose between Nigel or Nicola is reasonable. Now I know you work with disabled people, look at the rising stars of the 2016 Conservative Party, the Free Enterprise Group and Britannia Unchained and their voting records on Welfare Issues and tell me if you find that appealing.

Here's ex-Paisley schoolgirl Elizabeth Truss's record -

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24941/elizabeth_truss/south_west_norfolk/votes

If you hold your position then effectively these are the people you're choosing to govern you - that you find it a low blow says it all really. 

Edited June 29, 2016 by Bud the Baker

[BuddieinEK]

My point is we're here, now where do we want to go?

I understand your point of view, disagree with it and will continue to say so, but if you want to stay in the UK then do you disagree that we'll have a Conservative government trying to appeal to UKIP voters? I reckon saying you have to choose between Nigel or Nicola is reasonable. Now I know you work with disabled people, look at the rising stars of the 2016 Conservative Party, the Free Enterprise Group and Britannia Unchained and their voting records on Welfare Issues and tell me if you find that appealing.

Here's ex-Paisley schoolgirl Elizabeth Truss's record -

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/24941/elizabeth_truss/south_west_norfolk/votes

If you hold your position then effectively these are the people the policies you're choosing to govern you - that you find it a low blow says it all really. 

I was reading that and respecting it and yet again you feel the need for a petty and cheap dig at the end.

So childish and just serves to undermine any good points in your content.

[pozbaird]

Here's the future options then?

Scotland remains in the UK and we're all out of Europe.

Scotland gains independence and is in the EU as an independent nation.

Scotland gains independence and doesn't gain entry to the EU.

 

That's it folks, align yer'sel with Nigel, align yer'sel with Boris, align yer'sel with Nicola, align yer'sel with Jeremy (haaaaa! FFS)....

 

Argue about it endlessly on a fitba' forum, or move to New Zealand. That's the choices as I see them. Personally, I'm about to align myself with a roll on square sausage and tomato sauce. Fcuk Nigel, Boris, Jeremy and Nicola. The lot of them. Important question though... tomato sauce or brown sauce on a square sausage?

[BuddieinEK]

Here's the future options then?

Scotland remains in the UK and we're all out of Europe.

Scotland gains independence and is in the EU as an independent nation.

Scotland gains independence and doesn't gain entry to the EU.

 

That's it folks, align yer'sel with Nigel, align yer'sel with Boris, align yer'sel with Nicola, align yer'sel with Jeremy (haaaaa! FFS)....

 

Argue about it endlessly on a fitba' forum, or move to New Zealand. That's the choices as I see them. Personally, I'm about to align myself with a roll on square sausage and tomato sauce. Fcuk Nigel, Boris, Jeremy and Nicola. The lot of them. Important question though... tomato sauce or brown sauce on a square sausage?

Nippy sauce every time!

[Bud the Baker]

32 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

I was reading that and respecting it and yet again you feel the need for a petty and cheap dig at the end.

So childish and just serves to undermine any good points in your content.

Actions have consequences, you voted to leave, Leave won, you get Nigel Farage crowing "Who's laughing now?" in the EU parliament - it's no good saying you didn't vote for that.

Now unless the next leader of the Tory party can make a massive and humiliating U-turn then it's likely we're going to have a second Independence referendum - you'll have to choose who you want to be governed by and I make no apologies for pointing out the nature of the 2016 Conservative party and it's fellow travellers.

When you vote, you're voting for a range of policies, some of which might be pushed to the side for the duration of a Referendum campaign but it's no good saying I only voted No because I reckoned the problems of integrating 28 different economies were insurmountable - you get the whole buffet, even if you don't like half the dishes on the table.

[oaksoft]

8 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Come off it Oaksoft, you're beyond the sensationalism of newspaper reports on a handful of racist incidents are you not? Al-Jazeera are reporting that the anti racist group "Far Right Watch" - who clearly do have an agenda - has recorded 90 incidents in the last 3 days across the whole of the UK. To put that into context that's 30 racist incidents per day amongst a population of 64 million. Perhaps "Far Right Watch" should be looking at the left. There's been more instances of abuse against "White Settlers" in the Highlands and Islands every day for years and of course during the build up and aftermath of the Scottish Referendum there was plenty of threats of violence and name calling going on - usually from Yes voters targeting business people who had declared themselves to be "No" voters. 

Nothing has changed in the UK since Thursday, nothing - despite all the hysteria. We're even still in the EU FFS and we've still got no control over immigration. And the state of our economy and how much the pound is worth versus other currencies has a very profound effect on us all. Fortunately it appears the markets have stabilised and common sense is beginning to kick in. 

On another note, does anyone know the address of my nearest foodbank. It appears I have 50 tins of soup and 50 tins of beans more than I actually needed. 

 

Spoken like a white anglo saxon middle class man.

[oaksoft]

41 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said:

Maybe being told you are aligning yourself with Farage isn't insulting to you, but it is certainly not something I wish to be associated with.

You were quick enough to shout Tartan Tories at the SNP for voting on the side of the Tories so quit crying.

You voted with Farage and are quite rightly being called out for it.

[oaksoft]

19 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Here's the future options then?

Scotland remains in the UK and we're all out of Europe.

Scotland gains independence and is in the EU as an independent nation.

Scotland gains independence and doesn't gain entry to the EU.

 

That's it folks, align yer'sel with Nigel, align yer'sel with Boris, align yer'sel with Nicola, align yer'sel with Jeremy (haaaaa! FFS)....

 

Argue about it endlessly on a fitba' forum, or move to New Zealand. That's the choices as I see them. Personally, I'm about to align myself with a roll on square sausage and tomato sauce. Fcuk Nigel, Boris, Jeremy and Nicola. The lot of them. Important question though... tomato sauce or brown sauce on a square sausage?

200 other threads you cluld be posting on if this stuff bores you.

Are you too stupid to find them?

[FTOF]

8 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said:

 

Nothing has changed in the UK since Thursday, nothing - despite all the hysteria. . 

 

You really do live in a fantasy world.

[Stuart Dickson]

Are you seriously suggesting that there are more than 30 recorded racist incidents against "white settlers" in the Highlands and Islands, I can't wait to see your source for this!! In Argyll and Bute there was a 59% vote in favour of remaining in the UK (probably one of the highest returns of "No" in the referendum).

I am originally from the Islands and although I wouldn't say I'd never heard anything untoward it is certainly nothing compared to the blatant racism I heard when I lived down south.

Anyone remember this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11079296/Anti-English-racists-terrorising-the-No-campaign-in-Scotland.html

Yeah of course there's more than 30 'white settler' incidents. One group in Scotland that hasn't been outlawed legally tried to get ethnic protection for Scots. Jim Murphy was repeatedly called a Quisling. Michelle Mone claimed the abuse got so bad she moved to England. And several Nationalist websites that we linked to by the SNP happily and publicly targeted business owners and celebrities in Scotland who backed No. Even on here there was abuse. I'm not wanting to take this topic off course but to deny what happened in 2014 is ridiculous.

[BuddieinEK]

You were quick enough to shout Tartan Tories at the SNP for voting on the side of the Tories so quit crying.

You voted with Farage and are quite rightly being called out for it.

I was merely pointing out the sheer hypocrisy...

Labour labeled Red Tories for agreeing with other party leaders on a national issue... Yet it was perfectly acceptable for Sturgeon to do exactly the same thing.

[BuddieinEK]

Actions have consequences, you voted to leave, Leave won, you get Nigel Farage crowing "Who's laughing now?" in the EU parliament - it's no good saying you didn't vote for that.

Now unless the next leader of the Tory party can make a massive and humiliating U-turn then it's likely we're going to have a second Independence referendum - you'll have to choose who you want to be governed by and I make no apologies for pointing out the nature of the 2016 Conservative party and it's fellow travellers.

When you vote, you're voting for a range of policies, some of which might be pushed to the side for the duration of a Referendum campaign but it's no good saying I only voted No because I reckoned the problems of integrating 28 different economies were insurmountable - you get the whole buffet, even if you don't like half the dishes on the table.

Errrrrr.... Where did I say how I voted personally.

Where did I say the "only" reason I voted either way was because of... ...?

Thank you for the lesson in politics but you really are not wanting a discussion, just the chance to force your opinion on others.

[Stuart Dickson]

Spoken like a white anglo saxon middle class man.

Aye maybe so. But it hasn't affected my life as yet and I doubt it's affected many others beyond maybe temporarily reducing the amount they've got to spend on donkeys in Sombrerros and on cheap alcohol that tastes like shit when they get it home.

What you are seeing is the kind of over dramatisation that you've rounded upon in the past. Only this time you've been sucked in by it.