salmonbuddie Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 You're right, I've no idea what an Independent Scotlands future GDP will be. However we do know what is widely accepted to be the current situation and that is that Scotland's annual budget deficit runs at around 9% - 9.7% of GDP. That's a frightening figure and one of the highest annual budget deficits in the world and it's not fictitious either. It's a real figure based on the geographical share of oil tax revenues - best case scenario for an Independent Scotland, well it is unless you really are living in la la land like Rev Stewart Campbell and his followers. You want to take a punt with your livelihood, your children's livelihood and their children's livelihood.. I get it Drew. You are so anti-English that you'll accept being told what to do by anyone else. It seems a bit prejudicial of you, I'm sure you could find many fellow UK residents that you would identify with and get on well with, but who am I to deny you your bigotry. I'm even sure that given half a chance you'd discover that there are many English, Northern Irish and Welsh people who you have a great deal more in common with than your average Lithuanian, Croatian, Pole or even German or Italian. You may even discover that you share a common language and 300 years of common history. Personally I don't find the United Kingdom toxic in any way shape or form. I have many English friends, work colleagues and even family members. I work for a German owned company that was founded by two Englishmen in Lancashire. The company still has an HQ in England. In common with many, including your favourite football club, I buy a lot of products from English companies and when I had my business the vast majority of my customer base were from England. I don't feel prejudiced or bigoted towards anyone in the UK at all (except Geordies, they really are f**kwits, and Scousers - I just can't talk to a Scouser without feeling the need to immediately go and wash afterwards ) and I want my two children to enjoy all the opportunities to develop and progress in life as I have done, and as many generations of my family have done and I would only feel like taking a punt on Scottish Independence if the SNP could actually make a credible case showing in detail how we would all (and I do mean ALL Scots) be wealthier outside of the UK union. What a pile of wanky pish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 1 hour ago, salmonbuddie said: What a pile of wanky pish... That it is. But what's worse is the economic case for Scottish Independence. Seriously, only one person appears to have come up with some sort of fiscal plan on here to raise that extra £15Bn. Raise taxes. At least he was realistic. Anyone else know where Nicola Sturgeon can find an extra £15bn per annum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 7 hours ago, Stuart Dickson said: Ok I'll give you that. Everyone living in Scotland. Fair enough. You'll need to give me your comments on the Union though, Lets face it Drew, you have been happy enough to profit from the UK Union, just like me. But now you want to deny our kids the same protection, stability and security that was afforded to us and to many generations before us. And for what reason? Well you said it was because you believe the UK Union to be toxic and that you don't identify with any part of it, and you are happy to take a punt on anything that isn't the UK no matter the cost or financial implications. Surely you have to admit your prejudice has coloured your judgement It's quite straightforward forward, Stuart. I have no prejudice. This has absolutely nothing to do with any regional, constituent component of the union. My problem lies with the system and style of government. With a profound disconnect with the ruling establishment/elite that increasingly demonstrates a level of disregard for ordinary people throughout this tainted union. You do understand that it is possible to want a relationship to end without being embittered towards a partner? Hmm, perhaps not.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 That it is. But what's worse is the economic case for Scottish Independence. Seriously, only one person appears to have come up with some sort of fiscal plan on here to raise that extra £15Bn. Raise taxes. At least he was realistic. Anyone else know where Nicola Sturgeon can find an extra £15bn per annum? What a pile of wanky pish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 That it is. But what's worse is the economic case for Scottish Independence. Seriously, only one person appears to have come up with some sort of fiscal plan on here to raise that extra £15Bn. Raise taxes. At least he was realistic. Anyone else know where Nicola Sturgeon can find an extra £15bn per annum? You appear surprised that a handful of St. Mirren fans on a football forum haven't come up with a fiscal plan for running a country?Don't be surprised when no one on here finds a cure for cancer either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 4 minutes ago, tony soprano said: You appear surprised that a handful of St. Mirren fans on a football forum haven't come up with a fiscal plan for running a country? Don't be surprised when no one on here finds a cure for cancer either... By the same token... ...that handful of fans have been daft enough to engage with HIM. Fuxake! I'm not convinced he even has a cure for fixing a dripping tap! You should ALL be embarrassed. In point of fact, he's just conversing with the wrong handful of fans... ...fiscal plans, cancer, Paisley chippies.... Ask away.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 11 minutes ago, tony soprano said: You appear surprised that a handful of St. Mirren fans on a football forum haven't come up with a fiscal plan for running a country? Don't be surprised when no one on here finds a cure for cancer either... I suspect Stuart would be quite confident about finding a cure for cancer. It'll be on Wikipedia, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 3 hours ago, antrin said: By the same token... ...that handful of fans have been daft enough to engage with HIM. But, but, but.... I enjoy the occasional exchange with Stuart. I find it to be the bestest way to let me feel good about myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 It's quite straightforward forward, Stuart. I have no prejudice. This has absolutely nothing to do with any regional, constituent component of the union. My problem lies with the system and style of government. With a profound disconnect with the ruling establishment/elite that increasingly demonstrates a level of disregard for ordinary people throughout this tainted union. You do understand that it is possible to want a relationship to end without being embittered towards a partner? Hmm, perhaps not.... And yet you believe you have some connection with the ruling elite in Scotland? Oh aye I get it now. Of course you do. Just like them you've got no idea where Scotland can raise an extra £15bn per annum to fund pensions, welfare, the NHS, the police, the ambulance service, etc, etc. And just like them your happy to take a punt with all our lives just so you can get rid of the English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 You appear surprised that a handful of St. Mirren fans on a football forum haven't come up with a fiscal plan for running a country?Don't be surprised when no one on here finds a cure for cancer either... Ach you can't blame me for asking though. After all when we sat waiting for the SNP fiscal plan last time round they produced the White Paper which has proven to be less financially robust than a book about Noddy and his mate Big Ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 I suspect Stuart would be quite confident about finding a cure for cancer. It'll be on Wikipedia, right? https://www.cancertutor.com/cancer-myths/I used Google cause it's my friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 25 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said: Ach you can't blame me for asking though. After all when we sat waiting for the SNP fiscal plan last time round they produced the White Paper which has proven to be less financially robust than a book about Noddy and his mate Big Ears. I wont have that Stu .................Noddy is a cracking read........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 And yet you believe you have some connection with the ruling elite in Scotland? Oh aye I get it now. Of course you do. Just like them you've got no idea where Scotland can raise an extra £15bn per annum to fund pensions, welfare, the NHS, the police, the ambulance service, etc, etc. And just like them your happy to take a punt with all our lives just so you can get rid of the English. Ach you can't blame me for asking though. After all when we sat waiting for the SNP fiscal plan last time round they produced the White Paper which has proven to be less financially robust than a book about Noddy and his mate Big Ears. https://www.cancertutor.com/cancer-myths/I used Google cause it's my friend. What a pile of wanky pish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 44 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said: And yet you believe you have some connection with the ruling elite in Scotland? Oh aye I get it now. Of course you do. Just like them you've got no idea where Scotland can raise an extra £15bn per annum to fund pensions, welfare, the NHS, the police, the ambulance service, etc, etc. And just like them your happy to take a punt with all our lives just so you can get rid of the English. What ruling elite is that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 What ruling elite is that? Really? You don't see the dictatorship of the SNP leadership as a ruling elite? Let me guess, when you look back in history you see Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Ceaucescu as ordinary men of the people didn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Just now, Stuart Dickson said: Really? You don't see the dictatorship of the SNP leadership as a ruling elite? Let me guess, when you look back in history you see Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Ceaucescu as ordinary men of the people didn't you? Dictatorship. There was me thinking they were democratically elected by a considerable majority of people in Scotland. Also worth bearing in mind that this dictatorship will require (and will receive) the support of the Scottish Green Party to progress and plan for another independence referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Really? You don't see the dictatorship of the SNP leadership as a ruling elite? Let me guess, when you look back in history you see Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Ceaucescu as ordinary men of the people didn't you? What a pile of wanky pish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Drew said: Dictatorship. There was me thinking they were democratically elected by a considerable majority of people in Scotland. Also worth bearing in mind that this dictatorship will require (and will receive) the support of the Scottish Green Party to progress and plan for another independence referendum. Well it's not necessarily my observation. More the comment of a growing number of party members who see the kind of top down politics of the party as a dictatorship, where no-one is allowed to raise questions that go against the party line. I've cited reports coming out of a number of district offices where the SNP's leaderships tight control of what happens has led to claims of intimidation, violence, fire raising and criminal charges by members of the party. Outside of the party we see this growing cultism where anyone who dares to question Independence or the SNP is met with a pile of abuse, threats of violence, attempts at intimidation, and what seems to be a rather serious attempt by cult members to examine every strand of the questioners life to see what they can uncover about their personal lives to try to discredit, or at least deflect from the criticism or questioning no matter how mild that criticism is. Look at the ridiculous behaviour of SNP supporters that you appear to feel an affinity too when they hounded Jim Murphy all around the country trying to stop him from putting forward his democratic case. Look at the online abuse of Michelle Mone or JK Rowling. Look at the criticism of the "Pet Shop Owner" in the well presented and laid out article that highlighted the flaws in the SNP claims that Scots would be richer in an Independent Scotland. Look into the behaviours of SNP party leaders in North Lanarkshire and the claims of intimination and violence that were levelled against them. Look at the hounding of Labour Party candidates and campaign helpers during the Scottish Election around the doors You feel an affinity to these people? I think that says much more about you than anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said: You're making assumptions there, it might just be the Welsh he wants rid of. The remainder of your post, and all your other posts, have just been, well, a pile of wanky pish (© salmonbuddie) Oooooh. I don't think that's right.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Definitely not right. It's not copyrighted, thankfully - I'd owe a fortune if it was! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Well it's not necessarily my observation. More the comment of a growing number of party members who see the kind of top down politics of the party as a dictatorship, where no-one is allowed to raise questions that go against the party line. I've cited reports coming out of a number of district offices where the SNP's leaderships tight control of what happens has led to claims of intimidation, violence, fire raising and criminal charges by members of the party. Outside of the party we see this growing cultism where anyone who dares to question Independence or the SNP is met with a pile of abuse, threats of violence, attempts at intimidation, and what seems to be a rather serious attempt by cult members to examine every strand of the questioners life to see what they can uncover about their personal lives to try to discredit, or at least deflect from the criticism or questioning no matter how mild that criticism is. Look at the ridiculous behaviour of SNP supporters that you appear to feel an affinity too when they hounded Jim Murphy all around the country trying to stop him from putting forward his democratic case. Look at the online abuse of Michelle Mone or JK Rowling. Look at the criticism of the "Pet Shop Owner" in the well presented and laid out article that highlighted the flaws in the SNP claims that Scots would be richer in an Independent Scotland. Look into the behaviours of SNP party leaders in North Lanarkshire and the claims of intimination and violence that were levelled against them. Look at the hounding of Labour Party candidates and campaign helpers during the Scottish Election around the doors You feel an affinity to these people? I think that says much more about you than anything else What a pile of wanky pish... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 Who to believe Deloittes or Dickson? A tricky one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Zippy Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 What's even more ridiculous about GERS is that it makes reference to what Scotland spends on defence..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 24, 2016 Report Share Posted October 24, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, scottd said: Aye true. So what fiscal choices are you going to make that fills the £15Bn deficit? Scrap the NHS? Scrap pensions? Welfare? Raise taxes to 100%? it was the SNP White Paper that claimed everything would be more or less the same as it has always been, except that an Independent Scottish Government would pour more money into the NHS, more into pensions, more into welfare and provide free childcare for everyone. It claimed it could do this cause of the extremely high oil price predictions that they were making. History shows they called that wrong. So what can they credibly claim they will do in an Independent Scotland to balance the books It's not enough to say you get to make your own choices. What things would you do differently to make expenditure match income? Believe it or not, tonight I find myself on the same side as the daft old homophobe, and former SNP leader Gordon Wilson, when he said that pissing about with Indy Ref 2 is a waste of time unless the Scottish Government can trim the size of the deficit - which he says is £14.9Bn. http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/indyref2-waste-time-until-scottish-9112985 Edited October 24, 2016 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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