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shull

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Until the new one that I've just got, my place of  birth was on the passport.  That could be a clue?
And why shouldn't ALL of the UK have input into a decision that affects all of the participants in the UNION?  Scotland arbitrarily disrupting the free movement of people and goods will alter the status quo both sides of the border. 
 
My sadness is that nationalist Scots want to run away from a UK wide struggle against Capitalism, turn their backs on supporting the other exploited parts of Britain that have been impoverished. A small historic loophole is being exploited and I can see no reason, no logic in how 'freedom' can make a difference?
The system of Capitalism is not going to vanish just because Nationalists are briefly in power.  Scotland's big market with south of the border will still be there, if you're lucky,
London is not going to go away - and THAT is the big dislocating influence for all of the UK. 


What you term Nationalist Scots, the vast majority of them anyway, have been fighting against what you call Capitalism since 1955, before most of us were born. We used to vote Labour then we got the red Tories, Blair and Brown. Then we saw that very same Labour Party stand shoulder to shoulder with the Conservatives. Then we saw the other exploited parts of Britain that have been impoverished voting for BoJos. They rejected the Labour Party whose manifesto was promising things we already have in place in Scotland. What this tells me is that they have turned their backs on us, not the other way around.

Scotland and England have drifted apart and we're getting further and further apart with every week that passes. Luckily Scotland has an alternative.

And you're still not getting a vote.

[emoji846]
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Guest TPAFKATS
 
 
 

 
Does being born in Scotland make you Scottish?
 
Is someone of no Scottish descent Scottish, if they were born in Scotland when their parents were on holiday here, taken back to another country to be raised and never set foot in Scotland again?
 
My brother was born in England when my dad was in the RAF, did that make him English?
 
My mate was born in Singapore, his brother in Germany and his sister in England when his dad was in the RAF. Are none of them Scottish?
 
My point is that place of birth does not determine nationality, so what it says on a passport is irrelevant.
 
I'm in no way saying that you aren't Scottish, I'm just pointing out the flaw in your argument.
 
Considering that it was just the Scottish and English parliaments that voted for the original union (not everyone had a say) and both had to say yes, maybe both Parliaments should just have a vote to see if they want it to continue. If one says no, then it ends. Easy peasy. default_whistling.gif
 
There is no English parliament...
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If the regions are created as the current countries within the union with equal weight of position and only a tiny handful of issues where we come together then that could be a good compromise to full independence for me.

Can't see England willing to have joint initiatives vetoed by a single nation though.

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Guest TPAFKATS
If the regions are created as the current countries within the union with equal weight of position and only a tiny handful of issues where we come together then that could be a good compromise to full independence for me.
Can't see England willing to have joint initiatives vetoed by a single nation though.
Nope, not likely. Especially when England desperately wanted out of a union of equal nations
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1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:
2 hours ago, oaksoft said:
If the regions are created as the current countries within the union with equal weight of position and only a tiny handful of issues where we come together then that could be a good compromise to full independence for me.
Can't see England willing to have joint initiatives vetoed by a single nation though.

Nope, not likely. Especially when England desperately wanted out of a union of equal nations

Indeed. Having "taken back control" I can't see them rushing to give it away. Look instead for short term bribery. 

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2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

If the regions are created as the current countries within the union with equal weight of position and only a tiny handful of issues where we come together then that could be a good compromise to full independence for me.

Can't see England willing to have joint initiatives vetoed by a single nation though.

Exactly this. That solution would kill off the Independence movement for a long time as it would actually be an equal union, with little forced on us - much like the EU, and a key reason many Scots prefer the EU to the UK. The reason the Indy movement have a decent support is because of the current lack of equality in this “union”, and what you say above would stop it in it’s tracks.

Of course as you follow on with, England will never give that up. 533 MPs against 117 MPs, it’s a great irony that those in England who voted leave due to the “European dictatorship” live in the actual dictatorship where England continually has a predominant say in what happens in the UK.

You can guarantee if Scotland had the 533 MPs and had forced an SNP majority on the rest of the UK, the English would be planning their own Indyref.

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2 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Exactly this. That solution would kill off the Independence movement for a long time as it would actually be an equal union, with little forced on us - much like the EU, and a key reason many Scots prefer the EU to the UK. The reason the Indy movement have a decent support is because of the current lack of equality in this “union”, and what you say above would stop it in it’s tracks.

Of course as you follow on with, England will never give that up. 533 MPs against 117 MPs, it’s a great irony that those in England who voted leave due to the “European dictatorship” live in the actual dictatorship where England continually has a predominant say in what happens in the UK.

You can guarantee if Scotland had the 533 MPs and had forced an SNP majority on the rest of the UK, the English would be planning their own Indyref.

You might be able to resolve the England issue by having each nation pretty much run their own affairs with only perhaps defence and currency as joint issues.

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17 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You might be able to resolve the England issue by having each nation pretty much run their own affairs with only perhaps defence and currency as joint issues.

That would be ideal. Perhaps a NATOesque “contribution” towards the defence costs so each is paying their “fair share”.

Of course it’s not going to happen as Westminster will never give that amount of power up. But it’s things like this which would preserve the long term future of the union.

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Emily Thornbury hates 45% of the Scottish electorate.

Quote

Her statement came in response to a question at the conference at Nottingham Trent University campus, which asked: "Do you agree that the SNP's record in government is bad and this attitude amongst members is both wrong and damaging to Labour's chances in Scotland?"
Thornberry replied saying: "I hate the SNP. I hate the SNP. I think they're Tories wrapped up in nationalist clothing. I think they pretend to be on the left and they're not on the left."

 
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11 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Emily Thornbury hates 45% of the Scottish electorate.

It’s like Labour are trying to finish themselves off in Scotland. Murray was spouting nonsense recently and this moron is doing the same, as is Nandy. I despise the fact the Tories are in power but with many Labour MPs doing nothing to back Corbyn and openly slaying him throughout, they deserve the heavy losses they took. Corbyn was more Labour and democratic than any of these tosspots.

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Guest TPAFKATS



It’s like Labour are trying to finish themselves off in Scotland. Murray was spouting nonsense recently and this moron is doing the same, as is Nandy. I despise the fact the Tories are in power but with many Labour MPs doing nothing to back Corbyn and openly slaying him throughout, they deserve the heavy losses they took. Corbyn was more Labour and democratic than any of these tosspots.


It's an interesting strategy given that Labour are trying to win back voters who have switched to snp [emoji23]
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