Kendo Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 If we vote yes with a guarantee that we remain in the EU we could take lots of jobs from companies currently in England and Wales looking to relocate in the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, Kendo said: If we vote yes with a guarantee that we remain in the EU we could take lots of jobs from companies currently in England and Wales looking to relocate in the EU. And if the UK create a physical closed border with Scotland so they can control their immigration, it could have precisely the opposite effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 11 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said: And if the UK create a physical closed border with Scotland so they can control their immigration, it could have precisely the opposite effect. They aren't doing it with Ireland why would we be different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 And if the UK create a physical closed border with Scotland so they can control their immigration, it could have precisely the opposite effect. That's an interesting 'if' considering the current UK position, reaffirmed by UK gov in the last few days, is that they won't have a physical closed border with Ireland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Voted YES the last time like many feel it's too soon the last independence was vile at times. The one thing that bothers me is a short fall of 15billion that's a lot of money to find though I'm sure it can be brought down with us throwing out nuclear subs. I know a family of 6 who voted NO. if we can stay in Europe they said they would vote YES this time. IF you believe the 15 billion is an accurate figure, ask yourself this question.Despite having had 40 years of oil, the largest fishing resources in the EU, abundance of natural energy resources including the largest tidal capacity in EU and whisky exports being the 2nd largest UK export behind oil why is Scotland's economy apparently fecked as part of the uk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 14 minutes ago, tony soprano said: That's an interesting 'if' considering the current UK position, reaffirmed by UK gov in the last few days, is that they won't have a physical closed border with Ireland. Yep, but there is no guarantee they wouldn't. It's also possible that the rest of the EU might insist on Scotland controlling it's borders since it would then border a non EU country. There's also no guarantee that the EU would accept Scotland as a member. No guarantees relating to the pound, or to the Euro. No guarantees relating to NATO either. To go to the electorate with a proposition that has so little clarity yet again, after their botched attempt in last time out would be absolutely bonkers. It could even mean the end of the SNP for several generations. Ooh I love that idea. Bring it on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Yep, but there is no guarantee they wouldn't. It's also possible that the rest of the EU might insist on Scotland controlling it's borders since it would then border a non EU country. There's also no guarantee that the EU would accept Scotland as a member. No guarantees relating to the pound, or to the Euro. No guarantees relating to NATO either. To go to the electorate with a proposition that has so little clarity yet again, after their botched attempt in last time out would be absolutely bonkers. It could even mean the end of the SNP for several generations. Ooh I love that idea. Bring it on Just about every sentence of that post is whataboutery.Still it's just as well we stayed in UK for all the security and continuity that it has brought us.Oh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 14 minutes ago, tony soprano said: Just about every sentence of that post is whataboutery. Still it's just as well we stayed in UK for all the security and continuity that it has brought us. Oh... Well it has though. As Top Cat has said already if it wasn't for the No vote we'd have been off to the IMF looking for a bail out such is the mismanagement by the Scottish Government. You can write it off as whataboutery if you like but those will be the concerns of many of the electorate going into a referendum, just as it was last time round. And unless the SNP can give absolutely cast iron guarantees, backed by guarantees from each of the institutions then there isn't any reason for someone who voted No last time to change their mind. If you want to accuse people of whataboutary though, how about turning the focus on the SNP. The whole build up to this has been about staying in the EU, yet Nicola Sturgeon has gone to the EU several times looking for support for her position that Scotland should remain in the EU and every single time it's been shown she doesn't have that support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Well it has though. As Top Cat has said already if it wasn't for the No vote we'd have been off to the IMF looking for a bail out such is the mismanagement by the Scottish Government. You can write it off as whataboutery if you like but those will be the concerns of many of the electorate going into a referendum, just as it was last time round. And unless the SNP can give absolutely cast iron guarantees, backed by guarantees from each of the institutions then there isn't any reason for someone who voted No last time to change their mind. If you want to accuse people of whataboutary though, how about turning the focus on the SNP. The whole build up to this has been about staying in the EU, yet Nicola Sturgeon has gone to the EU several times looking for support for her position that Scotland should remain in the EU and every single time it's been shown she doesn't have that support. This is a steaming pile of shite.I can't be bothered flushing through each and every jobbie that your post has dumped into the thread.Life is too short Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 26 minutes ago, tony soprano said: This is a steaming pile of shite. I can't be bothered flushing through each and every jobbie that your post has dumped into the thread. Life is too short You can't be bothered, cause you can't. Thats the problem with the SNP argument. You can't do facts, or guarantees, or logic. If you can't blame the English, and you can't wave a St Andrews flag, you're utterly f**ked. You need Scots to hate England to want to turn our backs on our biggest and best trading partner for the last 300 years bar none. A country that we share a glorious history with having united with them and with the Welsh and the Irish as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stuart Dickson said: You can't be bothered, cause you can't. Thats the problem with the SNP argument. You can't do facts, or guarantees, or logic. If you can't blame the English, and you can't wave a St Andrews flag, you're utterly f**ked. You need Scots to hate England to want to turn our backs on our biggest and best trading partner for the last 300 years bar none. A country that we share a glorious history with having united with them and with the Welsh and the Irish as well. Have you noticed the subtle change in the blessed Nicolas use of language. No longer is the catalyst "being taken out of the EU against our will" (even though more than a million of Scots voted to leave... Was it not 2 millions?)... the catalyst is now leaving the common trading agreement (single market) against our will. Personally, losing trade agreements with the UK and simultaneously giving up enhancing trading agreements with the wider world scares me a damned sight more than losing the EU one! Does anyone here shop in one shop only at the exclusion of others? Why is a "single market" now the be all and end all? Edited October 13, 2016 by BuddieinEK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 5 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said: Have you noticed the subtle change in the blessed Nicolas use of language. No longer is the catalyst "being taken out of the EU against our will" (even though more than a million of Scots voted to leave... Was it not 2 millions?)... the catalyst is now leaving the common trading agreement against our will. Personally, losing trade agreements with the UK and simultaneously giving up enhancing trading agreements with the wider world scares me a damned sight more than losing the EU one! Same. At least as a block the UK has some status in the world. 5th or 6th richest economy depending on who you listen to. Alex Salmond told us that Scotland could have been the 14th richest economy in the world in his little book. I wonder where we'd be now given the collapse of the oil market and the huge deficit that the Scottish Government has the country running at. Maybe just above Burundi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 You can't be bothered, cause you can't. Thats the problem with the SNP argument. You can't do facts, or guarantees, or logic. If you can't blame the English, and you can't wave a St Andrews flag, you're utterly f**ked. You need Scots to hate England to want to turn our backs on our biggest and best trading partner for the last 300 years bar none. A country that we share a glorious history with having united with them and with the Welsh and the Irish as well. More jobbiesfacts and logic claim from the Complete Unionist Nutcase TwatStill at least the union can do guarantees. Oh, hang on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Have you noticed the subtle change in the blessed Nicolas use of language.No longer is the catalyst "being taken out of the EU against our will" (even though more than a million of Scots voted to leave... Was it not 2 millions?)...the catalyst is now leaving the common trading agreement against our will.Personally, losing trade agreements with the UK and simultaneously giving up enhancing trading agreements with the wider world scares me a damned sight more than losing the EU one! What trade agreements with the wider world is the UK enhancing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 52 minutes ago, tony soprano said: What trade agreements with the wider world is the UK enhancing? in case you hadn't noticed... we are restricted in doing so at present due to the trading restrictions imposed upon us by the single current EU agreement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 29 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: Of course they do guarantees. They guaranteed that a NO vote was the only way to guarantee our place in the EU. Semantics... that was never a "guarantee" and I know of not one single person whos vote was influenced by that at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 Sneering contempt on BBC Question Time tonight. Let's hope they keep that up, as it'll all but guarantee we achieve independence next time round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 10 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said: Several times I heard the phrase "The only way to guarantee that you will be in the EU ...", or such like (always with the word "guarantee"), from the unionist side on TV. How many people do you know that voted? Your defence relies on that? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 in case you hadn't noticed... we are restricted in doing so at present due to the trading restrictions imposed upon us by the single current EU agreement! So we currently don't have any trade agreements with the wider world outwith the EU? :-/ This is what your post implies yet doesn't actually answer the question my previous post was asking. It was a genuine query.I know the UK gov sent a minister to Norway a few days ago trying to get started on a trade deal. They got sent away with a flea in their ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
proudtobeabuddy Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 12 minutes ago, Drew said: Sneering contempt on BBC Question Time tonight. Let's hope they keep that up, as it'll all but guarantee we achieve independence next time round. The BBC? Can't bring myself to watch that channel. Have lost all respect for that institution for a variety of reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kendo Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 13 minutes ago, Drew said: Sneering contempt on BBC Question Time tonight. Let's hope they keep that up, as it'll all but guarantee we achieve independence next time round. Yes I liked the bit where someone in the audience suggested that the whole of the UK should vote on whether Scotland is allowed to break away from the UK. On that logic perhaps the whole of the EU should vote on whether the UK should be allowed out of the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted October 13, 2016 Report Share Posted October 13, 2016 35 minutes ago, tony soprano said: So we currently don't have any trade agreements with the wider world outwith the EU? :-/ This is what your post implies yet doesn't actually answer the question my previous post was asking. It was a genuine query. I know the UK gov sent a minister to Norway a few days ago trying to get started on a trade deal. They got sent away with a flea in their ear. "Don't have any"? Who said that? Are you saying there are NO restrictions and that trading deals could not be improved with the rest of the world? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, tony soprano said: So we currently don't have any trade agreements with the wider world outwith the EU? :-/ This is what your post implies yet doesn't actually answer the question my previous post was asking. It was a genuine query. I know the UK gov sent a minister to Norway a few days ago trying to get started on a trade deal. They got sent away with a flea in their ear. Oh dear - was that what the propaganda rag was reporting. Here's what the Guardian reported https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/11/norway-rejects-uk-request-for-joint-trade-taskforce-report-eea-eu Edited October 14, 2016 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Drew said: Sneering contempt on BBC Question Time tonight. Let's hope they keep that up, as it'll all but guarantee we achieve independence next time round. Aye that works both ways. Alex Salmond's sneering at Damien Green when he challenged Salmond on the poor job that the SNP were doing governing Scotland. He's answer was to duck the criticism and to slate Green for reading from a Conservative Central Office report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 14, 2016 Report Share Posted October 14, 2016 "Don't have any"? Who said that? Are you saying there are NO restrictions and that trading deals could not be improved with the rest of the world? I'm sure trade deals could be more beneficial for UK. I'm also sure most countries feel the same way about most of their trade agreements.You appear to be presuming that we will improve our trade deals once we leave the EU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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