portmahomack saint Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Sue Denim said: SNP complaining about Russian interference in the Brexit referendum I don’t remember them doing too much complaining about Russian interference in the Indeyref.... Lets hope the press don't get to hear about this, Could spell the end of the independence movement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 (edited) Hey @bazil85, how’s those scary numbers coming out of Sweden going? As the trajectory of deaths has fallen away without a lockdown and with excess deaths no different to neighbours Denmark and Finland and much lower than locked down Scotland, surely it’s time for you to admit that I was right and you were wrong. All along. 😉 Edited July 21, 2020 by Sue Denim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Sue Denim said: Hey @bazil85, how’s those scary numbers coming out of Sweden going? As the trajectory of deaths has fallen away without a lockdown and with excess deaths no different to neighbours Denmark and Finland and much lower than locked down Scotland, surely it’s time for you to admit that I was right and you were wrong. All along. 😉 Hey Sue, how's that complete disregard for any data that doesn't fit your agenda working out? Still ineffective? Let me yet again show you are wrong. You ignoring factors such as population density, multi-generational households, tourist and travel stats and single occupancy households as contributing factors to this virus doesn't make them go away Sweden Covid19 present deaths - 5,646 Denmark, Finland and Norway COMBINED Covid19 present deaths - 1,192 Hide in the corners of statistical cherry picking all you want, the decision makers in Sweden have blood on their hands through an economy over human life policy. One that is far from certain to have worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted July 21, 2020 Report Share Posted July 21, 2020 56 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Hey Sue, how's that complete disregard for any data that doesn't fit your agenda working out? Still ineffective? Let me yet again show you are wrong. You ignoring factors such as population density, multi-generational households, tourist and travel stats and single occupancy households as contributing factors to this virus doesn't make them go away Sweden Covid19 present deaths - 5,646 Denmark, Finland and Norway COMBINED Covid19 present deaths - 1,192 Hide in the corners of statistical cherry picking all you want, the decision makers in Sweden have blood on their hands through an economy over human life policy. One that is far from certain to have worked. I can understand your frustration, bazil... but the reality is that you cannot make claims yet that you are right and Sweden is wrong. Until we know or see or have it proven... that there are no further spikes in deaths from the virus and that it has died out or been contained or that having allowed a better development of herd immunity might protect against a nasty return slaughter... it is silly to claim one side knows better than the myriad other sides. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 9 hours ago, antrin said: I can understand your frustration, bazil... but the reality is that you cannot make claims yet that you are right and Sweden is wrong. Until we know or see or have it proven... that there are no further spikes in deaths from the virus and that it has died out or been contained or that having allowed a better development of herd immunity might protect against a nasty return slaughter... it is silly to claim one side knows better than the myriad other sides. I think we have enough global data to say locking down was the correct call. The points around herd immunity and the likes is a gamble with human life, it's a gamble that there won't be a better way than letting thousands die where observably they would have likely been saved in a lock down. IMO there is nothing "silly" in condemning that approach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 On 7/17/2020 at 2:08 PM, oaksoft said: The Greens come with a lot of baggage which many people don't like. 38C in Siberia this summer, forest fires in the Artic, melting Polar Ice Caps with an increase in temp we were not meant to see for 50 years Yup that's a hell of a lot a baggage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, bazil85 said: I think we have enough global data to say locking down was the correct call. The points around herd immunity and the likes is a gamble with human life, it's a gamble that there won't be a better way than letting thousands die where observably they would have likely been saved in a lock down. IMO there is nothing "silly" in condemning that approach. word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, antrin said: word If you are going to disagree with practically anything you engage me in, I'll continue to have a response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, bazil85 said: I think we have enough global data to say locking down was the correct call. The points around herd immunity and the likes is a gamble with human life, it's a gamble that there won't be a better way than letting thousands die where observably they would have likely been saved in a lock down. IMO there is nothing "silly" in condemning that approach. There isn't enough evidence to be certain that lockdown worked and there is definitely not enough evidence to justify having a go at those who disagree with you. I think lockdown probably was something which worked. It'll take science a couple of years or so to be absolutely agreed on it. Maybe even longer. What's crystal clear is that it's the most pressing question needing answered before the next pandemic arrives (either this one or another new one) because we need everyone across the world to know exactly how to respond properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, DougJamie said: 38C in Siberia this summer, forest fires in the Artic, melting Polar Ice Caps with an increase in temp we were not meant to see for 50 years Yup that's a hell of a lot a baggage That's not the baggage I was referring to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 25 minutes ago, oaksoft said: There isn't enough evidence to be certain that lockdown worked and there is definitely not enough evidence to justify having a go at those who disagree with you. I think lockdown probably was something which worked. It'll take science a couple of years or so to be absolutely agreed on it. Maybe even longer. What's crystal clear is that it's the most pressing question needing answered before the next pandemic arrives (either this one or another new one) because we need everyone across the world to know exactly how to respond properly. I think there is categorically enough evidence to be certain the lockdown was the right call. Sweden is a great example where you can see the impact in people that have died in comparison to similar parameter countries. USA and Brazil another two strong examples of what can happen with ineffective/ no lockdown. USA in particular, off top of my head I believe it's around 25% global deaths from 6% of world population and there isn't a single state that didn't relax in some form, lockdown measures with six weeks of them being put in place. How many people will need to die to reverse that trend and show they were right to lift lockdown very quickly? Probably one for a mathematician... For me not locking down has been a big gamble on protecting economies over peoples lives and that isn't okay (and possibly not very successful). Yes it is just my opinion, and I've provided a snippet of how I back it. People have the right to question/ disagree but I will not budge on countries like Sweden getting it wrong based on what we know today and in what I see as an extremely unlikely scenario where it'll be found out no lockdown and allowing these people to die at this stage was the best strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Sweden will be devastated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 3 hours ago, bazil85 said: I think there is categorically enough evidence to be certain the lockdown was the right call. Sweden is a great example where you can see the impact in people that have died in comparison to similar parameter countries. Is that unfounded arrogance coming from your years of work as an expert in how virus suppression works? You seem very sure of yourself for a person who works for an insurance company. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 Sturgeon continues to lie that Scotland’s Covid-19 prevalence rate, at 0.028 per cent, is ‘five times lower’ than the rate in England, even though the rate in England is 0.025 per cent. And this is the outcome of this continued racism, more idiots at the border https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5841196/scotland-border-protest-england-out/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 On the 8th July, Sturgeon excludes Spain from the air bridge when the case rate in Spain was 383. An air bridge with Spain is allowed on 20th July when the case rate is 1527. You couldn’t make it up. Clueless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Denim Posted July 22, 2020 Report Share Posted July 22, 2020 The obese, lockdown breaking, fat cat banker Blackford asking his question at today’s PMQ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 17 hours ago, oaksoft said: Is that unfounded arrogance coming from your years of work as an expert in how virus suppression works? You seem very sure of yourself for a person who works for an insurance company. Not mine no... And you seem pretty sure of yourself for someone going against the overwhelming majority of hard hit countries. Do they base that off insurance company (no idea where you got that from) expert advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 hours ago, bazil85 said: Not mine no... And you seem pretty sure of yourself for someone going against the overwhelming majority of hard hit countries. Do they base that off insurance company (no idea where you got that from) expert advice? None of the leading experts in the world fully understand this virus but apparently you know best. Make the call and educate them Baz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: None of the leading experts in the world fully understand this virus but apparently you know best. Make the call and educate them Baz. From the person that has said "all" restrictions should be removed. Right now available data points to the lock-down being correct, my view is it was correct and I feel it is extremely unlikely any new data that completely turns that on its head will come up. You also ignore future state is different from current state. Based on the known data, lock-down was the right call, that is beyond doubt when you look at the people that have died from the virus. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we don't have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 3 hours ago, bazil85 said: From the person that has said "all" restrictions should be removed. Right now available data points to the lock-down being correct, my view is it was correct and I feel it is extremely unlikely any new data that completely turns that on its head will come up. You also ignore future state is different from current state. Based on the known data, lock-down was the right call, that is beyond doubt when you look at the people that have died from the virus. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we don't have it. Did you make the call? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted July 23, 2020 Report Share Posted July 23, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 18 hours ago, oaksoft said: Did you make the call? Sure did, they said they know. Apparently my view is in line with expert advice for practically any Covid19 hit country in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, bazil85 said: Sure did, they said they know. Apparently my view is in line with expert advice for practically any Covid19 hit country in the world, or so the Ambassador said at an official reception the other evening. Fify Edited July 24, 2020 by antrin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, antrin said: Fify You know I've never known what fify meant on here (or bothered to check it). Just did, incorrect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antrin Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 9 minutes ago, bazil85 said: You know I've never known. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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