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Hey @bazil85, how’s those scary numbers coming out of Sweden going?

As the trajectory of deaths has fallen away without a lockdown and with excess deaths no different to neighbours Denmark and Finland and much lower than locked down Scotland, surely it’s time for you to admit that I was right and you were wrong. All along. 😉

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Edited by Sue Denim
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2 hours ago, Sue Denim said:

Hey @bazil85, how’s those scary numbers coming out of Sweden going?

As the trajectory of deaths has fallen away without a lockdown and with excess deaths no different to neighbours Denmark and Finland and much lower than locked down Scotland, surely it’s time for you to admit that I was right and you were wrong. All along. 😉

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Hey Sue, how's that complete disregard for any data that doesn't fit your agenda working out? Still ineffective? Let me yet again show you are wrong. 

You ignoring factors such as population density, multi-generational households, tourist and travel stats and single occupancy households as contributing factors to this virus doesn't make them go away

Sweden Covid19 present deaths - 5,646

Denmark, Finland and Norway COMBINED Covid19 present deaths - 1,192

Hide in the corners of statistical cherry picking all you want, the decision makers in Sweden have blood on their hands through an economy over human life policy. One that is far from certain to have worked. 

 

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56 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Hey Sue, how's that complete disregard for any data that doesn't fit your agenda working out? Still ineffective? Let me yet again show you are wrong. 

You ignoring factors such as population density, multi-generational households, tourist and travel stats and single occupancy households as contributing factors to this virus doesn't make them go away

Sweden Covid19 present deaths - 5,646

Denmark, Finland and Norway COMBINED Covid19 present deaths - 1,192

Hide in the corners of statistical cherry picking all you want, the decision makers in Sweden have blood on their hands through an economy over human life policy. One that is far from certain to have worked. 

 

I can understand your frustration, bazil... but the reality is that you cannot make claims yet that you are right and Sweden is wrong.

 

Until we know  or see or have it proven... that there are no further spikes in deaths from the virus and that it has died out or been contained or that having allowed a better development of herd immunity might protect against a nasty return slaughter...

it is silly to claim one side knows better than the myriad other sides.

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9 hours ago, antrin said:

I can understand your frustration, bazil... but the reality is that you cannot make claims yet that you are right and Sweden is wrong.

 

Until we know  or see or have it proven... that there are no further spikes in deaths from the virus and that it has died out or been contained or that having allowed a better development of herd immunity might protect against a nasty return slaughter...

it is silly to claim one side knows better than the myriad other sides.

I think we have enough global data to say locking down was the correct call. The points around herd immunity and the likes is a gamble with human life, it's a gamble that there won't be a better way than letting thousands die where observably they would have likely been saved in a lock down.

IMO there is nothing "silly" in condemning that approach. 

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On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2020 at 2:08 PM, oaksoft said:

The Greens come with a lot of baggage which many people don't like.

 

38C in Siberia this summer, forest fires in the Artic, melting Polar Ice Caps with an increase in temp we were not meant to see for 50 years

Yup that's a hell of a lot a baggage

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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I think we have enough global data to say locking down was the correct call. The points around herd immunity and the likes is a gamble with human life, it's a gamble that there won't be a better way than letting thousands die where observably they would have likely been saved in a lock down.

IMO there is nothing "silly" in condemning that approach. 

word

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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I think we have enough global data to say locking down was the correct call. The points around herd immunity and the likes is a gamble with human life, it's a gamble that there won't be a better way than letting thousands die where observably they would have likely been saved in a lock down.

IMO there is nothing "silly" in condemning that approach. 

There isn't enough evidence to be certain that lockdown worked and there is definitely not enough evidence to justify having a go at those who disagree with you.

I think lockdown probably was something which worked. It'll take science a couple of years or so to be absolutely agreed on it. Maybe even longer.

What's crystal clear is that it's the most pressing question needing answered before the next pandemic arrives (either this one or another new one) because we need everyone across the world to know exactly how to respond properly.

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3 hours ago, DougJamie said:

38C in Siberia this summer, forest fires in the Artic, melting Polar Ice Caps with an increase in temp we were not meant to see for 50 years

Yup that's a hell of a lot a baggage

That's not the baggage I was referring to.

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25 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

There isn't enough evidence to be certain that lockdown worked and there is definitely not enough evidence to justify having a go at those who disagree with you.

I think lockdown probably was something which worked. It'll take science a couple of years or so to be absolutely agreed on it. Maybe even longer.

What's crystal clear is that it's the most pressing question needing answered before the next pandemic arrives (either this one or another new one) because we need everyone across the world to know exactly how to respond properly.

I think there is categorically enough evidence to be certain the lockdown was the right call. Sweden is a great example where you can see the impact in people that have died in comparison to similar parameter countries. 

USA and Brazil another two strong examples of what can happen with ineffective/ no lockdown. USA in particular, off top of my head I believe it's around 25% global deaths from 6% of world population and there isn't a single state that didn't relax in some form, lockdown measures with six weeks of them being put in place. How many people will need to die to reverse that trend and show they were right to lift lockdown very quickly? Probably one for a mathematician... For me not locking down has been a big gamble on protecting economies over peoples lives and that isn't okay (and possibly not very successful).

Yes it is just my opinion, and I've provided a snippet of how I back it. People have the right to question/ disagree but I will not budge on countries like Sweden getting it wrong based on what we know today and in what I see as an extremely unlikely scenario where it'll be found out no lockdown and allowing these people to die at this stage was the best strategy. 

 

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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I think there is categorically enough evidence to be certain the lockdown was the right call. Sweden is a great example where you can see the impact in people that have died in comparison to similar parameter countries. 

Is that unfounded arrogance coming from your years of work as an expert in how virus suppression works?

You seem very sure of yourself for a person who works for an insurance company.

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Sturgeon continues to lie that Scotland’s Covid-19 prevalence rate, at 0.028 per cent, is ‘five times lower’ than the rate in England, even though the rate in England is 0.025 per cent.

And this is the outcome of this continued racism, more idiots at the border

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/5841196/scotland-border-protest-england-out/

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17 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Is that unfounded arrogance coming from your years of work as an expert in how virus suppression works?

You seem very sure of yourself for a person who works for an insurance company.

Not mine no...

And you seem pretty sure of yourself for someone going against the overwhelming majority of hard hit countries. Do they base that off insurance company (no idea where you got that from) expert advice? :whistle

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2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Not mine no...

And you seem pretty sure of yourself for someone going against the overwhelming majority of hard hit countries. Do they base that off insurance company (no idea where you got that from) expert advice? :whistle

None of the leading experts in the world fully understand this virus but apparently you know best.

Make the call and educate them Baz.

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2 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

None of the leading experts in the world fully understand this virus but apparently you know best.

Make the call and educate them Baz.

From the person that has said "all" restrictions should be removed. Right now available data points to the lock-down being correct, my view is it was correct and I feel it is extremely unlikely any new data that completely turns that on its head will come up. 

You also ignore future state is different from current state. Based on the known data, lock-down was the right call, that is beyond doubt when you look at the people that have died from the virus. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we don't have it. 

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3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

From the person that has said "all" restrictions should be removed. Right now available data points to the lock-down being correct, my view is it was correct and I feel it is extremely unlikely any new data that completely turns that on its head will come up. 

You also ignore future state is different from current state. Based on the known data, lock-down was the right call, that is beyond doubt when you look at the people that have died from the virus. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but we don't have it. 

Did you make the call?

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49 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Sure did, they said they know. Apparently my view is in line with expert advice for practically any Covid19 hit country in the world, or so the Ambassador said at an official reception the other evening. :whistle

Fify 

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