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Thread To Discuss An Independent Scotland.

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On 4/25/2020 at 11:56 AM, FTOF said:

She will be.

At present,there isn't anyone in the party that has the qualities required to step into her shoes.

She'll see this crisis through to the bitter end. She may go after that, but it will be a long time before all of this has got back to anything near what we were used to.

I agree on that but I think that may be the departing point.

Which means she will not be around IMO for any independence push, not that there will be for a long time.

Covid-19 will transcend  independence for  a long time

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22 hours ago, LargsBud said:

I'm neither for nor against independence but why do you think COVID has killed it stone dead? 🤔

I think the levels of debt which are already considerable added to by the bill for Covid will stop the small section of voters (the neither for nor against independence like me and you !)  needed to swing independence from voting for it, especially on the back of a proposed "Scottish" pound.

Oil is no longer the fall back position for SNP now given where the price of oil has yo yo'd over the last few years.

Also the fallout for Covid will be tagged against the SNP government no matter how well they have performed. Very similar to how a worldwide banking crash was perfect for the Tory party to pin on Labour. Perception is king !

Its not that difficult to find other reasons too.

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22 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

Yup, we're all Keynesians now.

Andrew Neil, I remember when he was covering Saints games for the PDE. A right-wing Murdoch stooge who outlived his usefulness to the Dirty Digger, all huff & bluster, any competent politician should be able to deal with him easily. His reputation has been rebuilt by presenting alongside comedy duo Abbott & Portillo.

As for Independence we'll see what happens when we get to the other side of the Covid tunnel but like I said we're all Keynesians now. 

 

You sound like a member of Momentum ?

Keynesian economics has it weaknesses too ?

I don't like Andrew Neil as an individual but he is a first class politican journalist and a hugely effective political interviewer who is well researched and able. 

Why do you think Boris Johnton avoided an interview with him during the election campaign ??

Edited by lenziebud

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21 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

You sound like a member of Momentum ?

Keynesian economics has it weaknesses too ?

I don't like Andrew Neil as an individual but he is a first class politican journalist and a hugely effective political interviewer who is well researched and able. 

Why do you think Boris Johnton avoided an interview with him during the election campaign ??

I just can’t see past his utter cuntishness enough to give him credit for anything he may or may not do well.

I’ll tell you what he is though. A terrible presenter. Wooden as f**k. Not a natural at all. His programme This Week is utterly horrendous. 

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18 minutes ago, lenziebud said:

You sound like a member of Momentum ?

Keynesian economics has it weaknesses too ?

I don't like Andrew Neil as an individual but he is a first class politican journalist and a hugely effective political interviewer who is well researched and able. 

Why do you think Boris Johnton avoided an interview with him during the election campaign ??

No I sound like a person who thinks that the economic theory folks usually turn to when laissez faire economics runs into trouble should actually be the norm like it was from the end of WW2 till the oil crisis in the 70s - in this country that included both Conservative & Labour governments.

I certainly seem to be in the minority over Neil's effectiveness as an interviewer, I think that like Paxman before him he pursues confrontation to generate headlines to feed his own ego rather than take a comprehensive approach to the interviewee it's fairly predictable and that's why I think he'd be ineffective against a competent politician, but to get back to Johnson he is a gaffe prone politician who has avoided scrutiny whenever possible during his party leadership campaign and the following GE - it's not just Neil he's avoided.

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19 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

No I sound like a person who thinks that the economic theory folks usually turn to when laissez faire economics runs into trouble should actually be the norm like it was from the end of WW2 till the oil crisis in the 70s - in this country that included both Conservative & Labour governments.

I certainly seem to be in the minority over Neil's effectiveness as an interviewer, I think that like Paxman before him he pursues confrontation to generate headlines to feed his own ego rather than take a comprehensive approach to the interviewee it's fairly predictable and that's why I think he'd be ineffective against a competent politician, but to get back to Johnson he is a gaffe prone politician who has avoided scrutiny whenever possible during his party leadership campaign and the following GE - it's not just Neil he's avoided.

I'm actually on your side btw. I agree that  Keynesian economics is a far more socially just than monetarist but it does have it weaknesses too. 

Also agree that it continually bails out market failure and that the weakest pay for it.

Problem is the uk electorate keep voting for  monetarist economics !

I think you may find that even in an independent Scotland over time that it may go the same way ?

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1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

No I sound like a person who thinks that the economic theory folks usually turn to when laissez faire economics runs into trouble should actually be the norm like it was from the end of WW2 till the oil crisis in the 70s - in this country that included both Conservative & Labour governments.

I certainly seem to be in the minority over Neil's effectiveness as an interviewer, I think that like Paxman before him he pursues confrontation to generate headlines to feed his own ego rather than take a comprehensive approach to the interviewee it's fairly predictable and that's why I think he'd be ineffective against a competent politician, but to get back to Johnson he is a gaffe prone politician who has avoided scrutiny whenever possible during his party leadership campaign and the following GE - it's not just Neil he's avoided.

Exactly. People constantly claim that politicians don’t answer questions, but Neil is guilty of asking questions and then not allowing the interviewee to finish answering, particularly if its looking like a good answer and not suiting his confrontational agenda. Neil’s interviews generally end up achieving the square root of hee haw. 

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9 minutes ago, shull said:

 

I agree. The law shouldn't be used to prosecute people for bad manners. I don't think somebody should ever be prosecuted for something they say. Harassment and intimidation are another matter, but not the spoken word.

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A recent poll hinting at a significant lead for an independent Scotland. So far this year on official polling there has been four leads for yes, two for no and two tied. The biggest lead no has had is 1% and the last three have went tied, yes, yes. (with a 7% gap in the most recent)

We all know polling has to be taken with a pinch of salt but it's becoming increasingly likely we've passed a tipping point. Couple that with the Scottish parliament election figures showing yes supporting parties are likely to get considerably over 50% of the votes, it's hard to see how another referendum could be democratically refused. 

I've always been in favour of another vote given the aftermath of the last one but I am still undecided on how I would vote in indref2. Plenty of unanswered questions on both sides to address before I make up my mind. 

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8 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

A recent poll hinting at a significant lead for an independent Scotland. So far this year on official polling there has been four leads for yes, two for no and two tied. The biggest lead no has had is 1% and the last three have went tied, yes, yes. (with a 7% gap in the most recent)

We all know polling has to be taken with a pinch of salt but it's becoming increasingly likely we've passed a tipping point. Couple that with the Scottish parliament election figures showing yes supporting parties are likely to get considerably over 50% of the votes, it's hard to see how another referendum could be democratically refused. 

I've always been in favour of another vote given the aftermath of the last one but I am still undecided on how I would vote in indref2. Plenty of unanswered questions on both sides to address before I make up my mind. 

Your last paragraph sums it up for me. I'm open to persuasion. 

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45 minutes ago, shull said:

Well, the SNP have already given Scotland third world highways. 

 

The SNP guy said we would have a third world CURRENCY. He did not say we would have a third world COUNTRY.

Well done shull. Less than 90 seconds in and the guy who created that video has been outed as a f**king spangle. :lol:

He's not a member of your extended family is he? :lol:

Do you even watch the stuff you post?

Edited by oaksoft

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Guest TPAFKATS
A split that has been simmering in the background has come into the open within the SNP with a threat to starts new harder line independence party. 
I think the new party is planning to stand on list only seats as they feel the voting system means that many snp list votes don't result in any msp being elected even though they get largest number of 2nd votes.

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3 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:

I think the new party is planning to stand on list only seats as they feel the voting system means that many snp list votes don't result in any msp being elected even though they get largest number of 2nd votes.

Thank you TP. Puts a new slant on it. 

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On 7/15/2020 at 12:04 AM, TPAFKATS said:

I think the new party is planning to stand on list only seats as they feel the voting system means that many snp list votes don't result in any msp being elected even though they get largest number of 2nd votes.

That actually is a very clever strategy providing the new party doesn't turn out to be a bunch of extremist, anti-English scumbags, the likes of which we saw at the borders last week.

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