1877 Club

[div]

11 hours ago, melmac said:

I applaud the efforts to get more folks in.

However, the joining fee needs to go really, what's that all about? Make the members say by the midweek whether they are attending or not, are signing members in or not and then announce whether its open to all before the game - numbers permitting. This isn't difficult.  

There is a train station 15 secs from the ground with a train to Gilmour Street at 6.15 which takes prob 1 minute and costs, if your canny, zero. However, I suspect most folks would not baulk at paying a nominal £1 or so if a small bus was to run into the town.

Yeah I did not realise that new members are being asked to stump up a joining fee of £50. That's fairly ludicrous in my opinion!

[div]

13 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Why would you say the club is shit?

 

The club is brilliant. You should try it.

[div]

9 hours ago, slapsalmon said:

There was a post earlier from kendo saying his group had a 100 quid kitty and 7 guests generating an extra 21 which was not bad for 3 hours work. 

 

I work in hospitality. Breaking it down with the known facts, which is the 7 guests, the £100 kitty and the £21 guest signing fee, no idea how many members, so 7 people with the 100 quid kitty and 21 pounds of signing in fees for 3 hours works out at 121/7/3 which is roughly 5.76 per head down per hour. Which in hospitality terms is pish. And that's not factoring in the members who are also in the kitty bringing the average spend down.

7 guests signed in on the basis of 2 max per member would be 11 people in the group. They spent £121. The capacity is 232 so if the club was full with groups like that it would be roughly 21 groups of 11 people generating £2.5k gross revenue. Is that enough to sustain it. I would say probably not. BUT the membership fees are paying off the costs so it's a double edge sword. 

 

There are around 200 members AFAIK, generating in the region of £2K fixed income a month to the club, for what amounts to the rental of the room for on average 2 days a month.

The most number of guests ever signed in was the 68 who came along on Hogmanay.

The bar opens at 12, but whenever I have been in, which is most games, it's busiest period by miles is from 1:30 to 2:30.

Only the club will know if the lounge is making money, but it's hard to imagine the matchday service isn't washing it's face considering there is £2K a month coming in before anyone sets foot in the place. The club should be looking to maximise the revenue on non-matchdays by hiring out the space. I know that it is used sometimes, but there is no advertising of it's availability anywhere.

[civilsaint]

59 minutes ago, div said:

Started off guests £6 to get in, members £10 a month

Moved to guests £3 to get in

Now open to all people after the game

So, 3 iterations.

 

Fair enough... if you want to ignore the rest of the changes that have been made. 

 

If the members are happy with the set up, great. 

 

 

[Kendo]

Just now, civilsaint said:

 

Fair enough... if you want to ignore the rest of the changes that have been made. 

 

If the members are happy with the set up, great. 

 

 

Name a few that he's ignored?

[shull]

28 minutes ago, Kendo said:

Name a few that he's ignored?

Me 

[Kendo]

1 minute ago, shull said:

Me 

I wisnae talking to you. 

[shull]

Neither was he or Scooty tae. 

Boooooo 

[div]

57 minutes ago, civilsaint said:

Fair enough... if you want to ignore the rest of the changes that have been made. 

If the members are happy with the set up, great.

What are the changes I've missed mate?

[Dweezboy]

As a monthly fee paying member I have attended around a half dozen times to date, only ever before the game. I drive to most of the games for convenience and would pop in more before a game if I could get a decent cup of coffee, a seat (there aren't enough) and we're it was possible to catch the Sky football (with commentary audible), sadly all 3 aren't available. For the Hogmanay game I managed leave the car behind, which allowed me a couple of beers, a bite to eat and to catch the Old Firm game (with no audible commentary and then conking out half way through!). Previously the food had been limited to that on sale within the ground... Pies, etc which is fine considering the limited catering space, basically a small cupboard. Now though they have started selling paninis, soup, sandwiches... which is a step forward.

It has always been relatively quiet, although the 138 people that attended before the Morton game was the largest attendance to date... out of a capacity of 300 this tells you that it's not quite being used to its potential.

It's not perfect but it's better than what we had before and it will take time to get right. More seating and higher volume on TV when showing football would be a quick one to sort and I will return.

It needs more people in the door though and it could/should be opened up to all supporters before and after the game on a first come basis, once the 300 reached the 'full' sign goes up. The monthly fee paying members can get priority by confirming their intendended attendance by email the night before (or say 11am matchday). If they confirm and then are a no show the club after 2 such events could forfeit there right to pre booked direct entry for a game.

[Lord Pityme]

2 hours ago, div said:

The club is brilliant. You should try it.

My comments will make no difference to how it operates, so i will stop commenting and wait for the inevitable ' free and first come first served' membership when all other highly complicated entry/access/membership avenues have been exhausted.

thats what has happened at every other club outside the top four or five in the country.

[div]

16 minutes ago, Dweezboy said:

As a monthly fee paying member I have attended around a half dozen times to date, only ever before the game. I drive to most of the games for convenience and would pop in more before a game if I could get a decent cup of coffee, a seat (there aren't enough) and we're it was possible to catch the Sky football (with commentary audible), sadly all 3 aren't available. For the Hogmanay game I managed leave the car behind, which allowed me a couple of beers, a bite to eat and to catch the Old Firm game (with no audible commentary and then conking out half way through!). Previously the food had been limited to that on sale within the ground... Pies, etc which is fine considering the limited catering space, basically a small cupboard. Now though they have started selling paninis, soup, sandwiches... which is a step forward.

It has always been relatively quiet, although the 138 people that attended before the Morton game was the largest attendance to date... out of a capacity of 300 this tells you that it's not quite being used to its potential.

It's not perfect but it's better than what we had before and it will take time to get right. More seating and higher volume on TV when showing football would be a quick one to sort and I will return.

It needs more people in the door though and it could/should be opened up to all supporters before and after the game on a first come basis, once the 300 reached the 'full' sign goes up. The monthly fee paying members can get priority by confirming their intendended attendance by email the night before (or say 11am matchday). If they confirm and then are a no show the club after 2 such events could forfeit there right to pre booked direct entry for a game.
 

Great post, agree with all of that. The screens/football/sound thing is really one that needs addressed, it's by far the worst bit of the setup.

The new food is brilliant, massive improvement.

[div]

8 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

My comments will make no difference to how it operates, so i will stop commenting and wait for the inevitable ' free and first come first served' membership when all other highly complicated entry/access/membership avenues have been exhausted.

thats what has happened at every other club outside the top four or five in the country.

Fair enough. On the basis that you don't ever have anything positve to add about a facility you've never used, that's a sensible strategy.

[civilsaint]

1 hour ago, div said:

What are the changes I've missed mate?

 

2 hours ago, Kendo said:

Name a few that he's ignored?

The very fact that there isn't a single place where I can identify the continuously changing criteria reinforces my point.

The goal posts have moved numerous times including;

Free entry for guests who have pre-booked,

£3 entry for non-members on the day,

No entry to non-members.

Non-members welcome after one of the December games (or were they? too much confusion)

Non-members not welcome.

 

Expecting potential customers to check the criteria each week does not lend itself to maximising footfall. I can't see what is controversial about this point, it isn't rocket science.

 

Edited January 6, 2017 by civilsaint

[Lord Pityme]

2 minutes ago, div said:

Fair enough. On the basis that you don't ever have anything positve to add about a facility you've never used, that's a sensible strategy.

I think this is my first FFS. 

I gave my honest opinions based on decades of business experience in what the best options to set up and operate a facility like this were. Now after months of its underuse, and lack of profitability its is being openend albeit after the game to all and sundry for free. Jeez that was a painful journey to get there ( as new members and existing are still being charged £50 to join and £10 a month) and no doubt it will drag out, and be painful for much longer before by choice or impostion it changes.

they were not your opinions, but as we all know those are the only ones that count around here, and the hate flows if you offer altrenatives.

I really dont get the hate on here, especially from people who claim to have the clubs interests at heart, as we look to include and invite more of our community to get involved. But if it makes you feel important, hey knock yourself out. 

[div]

1 minute ago, civilsaint said:

The very fact that there isn't a single place where I can identify the continuously changing criteria reinforces my point.

The goal posts have moved numerous times including;

Free entry for guests who have pre-booked,

£3 entry for non-members on the day,

No entry to non-members.

Non-members welcome after one of the December games (or were they? too much confusion)

Non-members not welcome.

Sorry mate, but you're just making stuff up here.

Non-Members have always been welcome from day one.

All that has changed is that they can now enter for free without a guest sign in after the game.

[Callum Gilhooley]

2 minutes ago, civilsaint said:

 

The very fact that there isn't a single place where I can identify the continuously changing criteria reinforces my point.

The goal posts have moved numerous times including;

Free entry for guests who have pre-booked,

£3 entry for non-members on the day,

No entry to non-members.

Non-members welcome after one of the December games (or were they? too much confusion)

Non-members not welcome.

 

 

Do i get a prize for spotting the obvious attempt to pad the list out ?

[pozbaird]

Free soup really isn't enough to entice me into the club after every St Mirren home game. How about free grief counseling?

Edited January 6, 2017 by pozbaird

[div]

27 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

My comments will make no difference to how it operates, so i will stop commenting

 

4 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I think this is my first FFS. 

I gave my honest opinions based on decades of business experience in what the best options to set up and operate a facility like this were. Now after months of its underuse, and lack of profitability its is being openend albeit after the game to all and sundry for free. Jeez that was a painful journey to get there ( as new members and existing are still being charged £50 to join and £10 a month) and no doubt it will drag out, and be painful for much longer before by choice or impostion it changes.

they were not your opinions, but as we all know those are the only ones that count around here, and the hate flows if you offer altrenatives.

I really dont get the hate on here, especially from people who claim to have the clubs interests at heart, as we look to include and invite more of our community to get involved. But if it makes you feel important, hey knock yourself out. 

23 minutes you lasted "not commenting". Good job!

[Drew]

38 minutes ago, Dweezboy said:

As a monthly fee paying member I have attended around a half dozen times to date, only ever before the game. I drive to most of the games for convenience and would pop in more before a game if I could get a decent cup of coffee, a seat (there aren't enough) and we're it was possible to catch the Sky football (with commentary audible), sadly all 3 aren't available. For the Hogmanay game I managed leave the car behind, which allowed me a couple of beers, a bite to eat and to catch the Old Firm game (with no audible commentary and then conking out half way through!). Previously the food had been limited to that on sale within the ground... Pies, etc which is fine considering the limited catering space, basically a small cupboard. Now though they have started selling paninis, soup, sandwiches... which is a step forward.

It has always been relatively quiet, although the 138 people that attended before the Morton game was the largest attendance to date... out of a capacity of 300 this tells you that it's not quite being used to its potential.

It's not perfect but it's better than what we had before and it will take time to get right. More seating and higher volume on TV when showing football would be a quick one to sort and I will return.

It needs more people in the door though and it could/should be opened up to all supporters before and after the game on a first come basis, once the 300 reached the 'full' sign goes up. The monthly fee paying members can get priority by confirming their intendended attendance by email the night before (or say 11am matchday). If they confirm and then are a no show the club after 2 such events could forfeit there right to pre booked direct entry for a game.
 

I take it you were pointing and laughing at me from the club windows, pint in hand, as I ran into the ground through the pishing rain?

[civilsaint]

9 minutes ago, div said:

Sorry mate, but you're just making stuff up here.

Non-Members have always been welcome from day one.

All that has changed is that they can now enter for free without a guest sign in after the game.

I'm not being difficult for the sake of being difficult, I want to see being the best success it can be. And I'm certainly not "making stuff up", it it quite disappointing that you want to go down that route, but fair enough you're the boss. 

Either you are wrong, or the e-maisl from the club are wrong.

E-mail for game at start of Sept:

"The biggest incentive is free entry for members guests which as always has to be pre booked to allow us to monitor our numbers.
In addition we will allow non members entry for a reduced fee of £3."

E-mail for Falkirk game at end of Sept:

"Also, to protect the value of membership we will NOT allow non members to use the facility this weekend ,unless signed in by a member."

 

To say that nothing has changed is slightly misleading. But this discussion continues to highlight the complete confusion and lack of certaininy which exists around the access arrangements. If the folk engaged in SMFC discussion boards can't get clear information, what chance have the casual/occasional  fan got?

[civilsaint]

18 minutes ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

Do i get a prize for spotting the obvious attempt to pad the list out ?

Maybe it wasn't clear from my formatting, but I was working chronologically. Sorry for that. That scenario was listed multiple times as it has come and gone a number of times.

No attempt to pad out the list. 

No prize. 

[div]

5 minutes ago, civilsaint said:

I'm not being difficult for the sake of being difficult, I want to see being the best success it can be. And I'm certainly not "making stuff up", it it quite disappointing that you want to go down that route, but fair enough you're the boss. 

Either you are wrong, or the e-maisl from the club are wrong.

E-mail for game at start of Sept:

"The biggest incentive is free entry for members guests which as always has to be pre booked to allow us to monitor our numbers.
In addition we will allow non members entry for a reduced fee of £3."

E-mail for Falkirk game at end of Sept:

"Also, to protect the value of membership we will NOT allow non members to use the facility this weekend ,unless signed in by a member."

 

To say that nothing has changed is slightly misleading. But this discussion continues to highlight the complete confusion and lack of certaininy which exists around the access arrangements. If the folk engaged in SMFC discussion boards can't get clear information, what chance have the casual/occasional  fan got?

I get that it might be misleading language but members have always been able to sign in guests. The only thing that has changed has been the move from £6 to £3 which happened quite a while ago.

I genuinely hate that I'm not allowed an opinion because I happen to host the forum.

Is the 1877 club perfect? No. Is it better than what we had before? Yes, yes it is.

[Callum Gilhooley]

10 minutes ago, civilsaint said:

Maybe it wasn't clear from my formatting, but I was working chronologically. Sorry for that. That scenario was listed multiple times as it has come and gone a number of times.

No attempt to pad out the list. 

No prize. 

Spoilsport

[civilsaint]

13 minutes ago, div said:

I get that it might be misleading language but members have always been able to sign in guests. The only thing that has changed has been the move from £6 to £3 which happened quite a while ago.

I genuinely hate that I'm not allowed an opinion because I happen to host the forum.

Is the 1877 club perfect? No. Is it better than what we had before? Yes, yes it is.

Wait a minute, I didn't object to you having an opinion. I specifically object to your accusation that I was fabricating things, which the evidence refutes.

As for "the only thing that has changed", the e-mail extracts demonstrates that for a period non-members could walk up, then for a period non-members could not walk up. Clearly more has changed than you are willing to accept.

I'm not out to slate the club or those involved. I want to be constructive but to move forward people need to accept the lessons which have been learned.

Edited January 6, 2017 by civilsaint