1877 Club

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The 1877 club is bringing in around £2k a month before anyone sets foot in the place.

That money is guaranteed. Unless of course members drop out.

With the £35K builders fees still to be paid off I can see why having guaranteed revenue coming in is attractive.

If we scrapped the monthly fees and did a free for all, then the bar takings of course would increase, and the place would surely be full every matchday.

The question I guess would be that in 2 home games in a month would a free for all generate more than £2K clear profit in bar sales?

And what if it didn't? Who would pay the builders? There is a risk there.

I still think there is roomfor both members AND turn up on the day punters. At least until the builders are paid off and that debt is gone.

 

[elvis]

There is also the 200 odds at £60 on top of that it should be paid off in about the next 7 or 8 months  then they they should look at changing the criteria for entry .  

[Liverpool Bud]

What's stopping a one match trial where members are guaranteed a space and either the first 100 through the door pay as you go customers get preference or you can apply for a one day match pass - 150 issued and as long as there is space you can enter pre and post match?

 

maybe this could be organised for the Dundee Utd match on October 15 as that is when I will next be in attendance along with a few lads from my work.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Liverpool Bud

[BuddieinEK]

What's stopping a one match trial where members are guaranteed a space and either the first 100 through the door pay as you go customers get preference or you can apply for a one day match pass - 150 issued and as long as there is space you can enter pre and post match?

 

maybe this could be organised for the Dundee Utd match on October 16 as that is when I will next be in attendance along with a few lads from my work.

Pride?
Lack of ambition?
One-upmanship?

Can't imagine bud. Good idea though. Gauntlet thrown.

[Liverpool Bud]

This is the sort of hospitality and welcome you can experience at Today's Tranmere Rovers game who are a forward thinking club

Since they got relegated a few seasons ago have reconnected with the community - last season the tag line was Come back stronger and this season the tag line is Together we are the team.

[Kombibuddie]

The sums just don't stack up & folk are guessing how many members there actually are.

Early on in this thread, it was stated 200 for a venue with a capacity of 220. There is a lot more than that.

Folk are hazarding guesses in excess of 200 members but nobody seems to know for sure. Perhaps someone who knows Alan Wardrop (as he was the figurehead of this project) could ask him to clarify unless it is a bit of a secret society.

Everyone had the same chance to sign up to it and as Div pointed out, the 1877 Club has a guaranteed income every month that can/will service the £35K builders bill. It won't take too long to pay that off.

A minimum of 235 Founders Member subscriptions at £50 each (Season Ticket Holders price)  should have realised £11750 and a minimum of £60 for 1 non ST founder member should have brought in a total of £11810.

At least 236 members paying £10 per month will have brought in a further £11180 over the past 5 months will have helped realise a grand total of £23550. Unless there are some sausage roll thieves being given honorary memberships (as a member, I am not awrae of any so assume the figures of what I expect to be correct. That is, If I am member 236, there are 235 others wh paid at least £50 Founder fee & continuing to pay £10 per month too) and not paying a bean, the builders costs should be repaid by Christmas.

That all said, an email from the Fans Council months ago, declared membership was fully subscribed. It is documented in their minutes that aim was 300 members. I fully expect that "fully subscribed" means 300 members which, realises very different figures.

299 @ a minimum of £50 (St Holders) member + 1 (non ST Holder) at £60 (me) brought in £15010. Add that to 300 members paying £10 per month (£3k per month) is another £15000 which totals £30010. If this is the case, that £35K will be paid off by October. Not long to go.

That is also assuming there has been no additional income from lettings however, I would hope that the Fans Council secured that any letting fees went towards the build costs until the debt was repaid.

 

1 hour ago, elvis said:

There is also the 200 odds at £60 on top of that it should be paid off in about the next 7 or 8 months  then they they should look at changing the criteria for entry .  

I can see a "why should they" argument brewing.

I have absolutely no objections to opening up as a 1st come 1st served basis and 1 out 1 in policy when the place is rammed. I was surprised to read that Campbell Kennedy is in charge of the bar the supporters founded and are funding. This a development that I do not agree with (that is that it is his position that is now apparently in charge, not the man himself)

The 1877 Club, as far as I believed was a Fans initiative and perhaps I naively expected, the Fans Council to remain "in charge" of the Supporters Club they took the initiative on & had built. The lettings and fundraising events should be managed by the FC (or SMISA) and any profits, presented to St Mirren for specific projects.

 

Mind you, for the money I am paying, I expect to be invited to the AGM and to be given adequate notice so that I can arrange time off work & get up to it from London. Then I will expect to get the true figures of what is what If, they are not clarified before then.

Cheers

Edited August 29, 2016 by Kombibuddie

[div]

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Bud said:

What's stopping a one match trial where members are guaranteed a space and either the first 100 through the door pay as you go customers get preference or you can apply for a one day match pass - 150 issued and as long as there is space you can enter pre and post match?

 

maybe this could be organised for the Dundee Utd match on October 15 as that is when I will next be in attendance along with a few lads from my work.

I can't recall what the capacity is of the club versus the number of members paying monthly. Sure someone from the FC will confirm the current situation.

[Kombibuddie]

Just now, div said:

Sure someone from the FC will confirm the current situation.

I admire your optimism. 3 weeks ago when you created this thread, I shared your optimism.

I now kind of  hope that someone confirms but not holding my breath.

[Lord Pityme]

4 hours ago, div said:

The 1877 club is bringing in around £2k a month before anyone sets foot in the place.

That money is guaranteed. Unless of course members drop out.

With the £35K builders fees still to be paid off I can see why having guaranteed revenue coming in is attractive.

If we scrapped the monthly fees and did a free for all, then the bar takings of course would increase, and the place would surely be full every matchday.

The question I guess would be that in 2 home games in a month would a free for all generate more than £2K clear profit in bar sales?

And what if it didn't? Who would pay the builders? There is a risk there.

I still think there is roomfor both members AND turn up on the day punters. At least until the builders are paid off and that debt is gone.

 

If i am allowed to quote your comment, there is indeed room for members and turn up punters. Come to a compromise for the remainder of this season, drop admission prices for non members to £2 or, £5 with first drink included.

then sell ST for the bar at a price that includes a hot traditional meal, and 2/3 free (cup/night/shitty time games) with a dedicated area in the main stand allowing direct access pre, post and at half time. You then know how many free spaces you can sell each game to turn up punters who like non ST punters elsewhere will pay a matchday fee.

making sure the facility is open seven days a week to the public putside game times.

[div]

16 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

If i am allowed to quote your comment, there is indeed room for members and turn up punters. Come to a compromise for the remainder of this season, drop admission prices for non members to £2 or, £5 with first drink included.

then sell ST for the bar at a price that includes a hot traditional meal, and 2/3 free (cup/night/shitty time games) with a dedicated area in the main stand allowing direct access pre, post and at half time. You then know how many free spaces you can sell each game to turn up punters who like non ST punters elsewhere will pay a matchday fee.

making sure the facility is open seven days a week to the public putside game times.

Yeah the problem is if there are 250 members and the license capacity is 250.

I think there is definitely a gap between members and capacity, but I'm not sure what the difference is.

The system at the moment is for members to advise they aren't coming so that their space can be used by another members guest. That system doesn't work as there is no real incentive for a member to say they aren't coming. In my view if the membership continues it needs flipped round where members need to advise they ARE coming.

The facility should be used as much as possible outside of matchdays but opening it as a bar 7 days a week would be absolute madness. The pubs in the town centre are closing every other week so I'm not sure how one in the middle of Ferguslie would make money.

There is no access to the stadium from inside the bar other than a fire exit. That is part of the terms and conditions of the license.

[Stuart Dickson]

Yeah the problem is if there are 250 members and the license capacity is 250.

I think there is definitely a gap between members and capacity, but I'm not sure what the difference is.

The system at the moment is for members to advise they aren't coming so that their space can be used by another members guest. That system doesn't work as there is no real incentive for a member to say they aren't coming. In my view if the membership continues it needs flipped round where members need to advise they ARE coming.

The facility should be used as much as possible outside of matchdays but opening it as a bar 7 days a week would be absolute madness. The pubs in the town centre are closing every other week so I'm not sure how one in the middle of Ferguslie would make money.

There is no access to the stadium from inside the bar other than a fire exit. That is part of the terms and conditions of the license.

That's where you need footfall into the stadium 7 days a week and it's where the community element comes into it. Parents will sit in a nice place and have a coffee whilst waiting on their kids. Sometimes they'll even stay back with their kids and have some food and a drink. We see that business model work at every sports centre in the country.

[div]

41 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

That's where you need footfall into the stadium 7 days a week and it's where the community element comes into it. Parents will sit in a nice place and have a coffee whilst waiting on their kids.

 

Waiting on their kids doing what?

Most of the kids stuff is at Ralston, and the community stuff is generally out and about at Primary Schools, no?

[Stuart Dickson]

Waiting on their kids doing what?

Most of the kids stuff is at Ralston, and the community stuff is generally out and about at Primary Schools, no?

There's a dome, street stuff can be set up in the car park. There's rooms that can be used on site and spaces in the vomitary areas. Most of it doesn't even have to be football related or run by the club. You could even operate the cafe / bar as a waiting area for the airport parking allowing people to eat at a more reasonable price than St the airport.

Div, I've never done the full tour of the stadium to see what potential there is in there. I'm sure something could be done though to fill every space. However what was always obvious was that the build didn't incorporate enough to get people coming in on non match days. It should have been a priority to get people in every night, winter and summer. An Astroturf pitch and a running track could have done that in large numbers but many on here rubbished that - you included.

[div]

4 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

 

There's a dome, street stuff can be set up in the car park. There's rooms that can be used on site and spaces in the vomitary areas. Most of it doesn't even have to be football related or run by the club. You could even operate the cafe / bar as a waiting area for the airport parking allowing people to eat at a more reasonable price than St the airport.

Div, I've never done the full tour of the stadium to see what potential there is in there. I'm sure something could be done though to fill every space. However what was always obvious was that the build didn't incorporate enough to get people coming in on non match days. It should have been a priority to get people in every night, winter and summer. An Astroturf pitch and a running track could have done that in large numbers but many on here rubbished that - you included.

You rubbished the Dome. Now you're saying we're sitting on a goldmine of coffee drinkers because of the Dome?

The Car Park is already being used 7 days a week.

The running track was rubbished because it was an absolutely fucking ridiculous idea.

The 1877 club could definitely be a venue used for funeral parties, business meetings and the like but as a Coffee Shop? I'm not so sure.

[pozbaird]

I was in Paisley today waiting for my car which was being serviced at a garage in Phoenix Park Linwood / Elderslie / Paisley / Neverland / Narnia / The Twilight Zone.

Trying to think of a reason I would go to the Paisley 2021 Dinkydome for a cappucino on a Monday at 11am.

Nope. Fcuking stupid idea, stayed in town and went to Blend on Causeyside St.

[whydowebother]

I was in Paisley today waiting for my car which was being serviced at a garage in Phoenix Park Linwood / Elderslie / Paisley / Neverland / Narnia / The Twilight Zone.

Trying to think of a reason I would go to the Paisley 2021 Dinkydome for a cappucino on a Monday at 11am.

Nope. Fcuking stupid idea, stayed in town and went to Blend on Causeyside St.

I agree, it's an events only visit.

Match day, Arranged activities, Functions & Meetings etc.

On match days the entry could be managed easily on the 'clicker' once capacity is reached then sorry no entry.

If we can't manage to make the stadium the best meeting place pre/post match for Saints fans, then we are lacking in the ambition to bring the club & fans closer together.

[Stu]

39 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

 

There's a dome, street stuff can be set up in the car park. There's rooms that can be used on site and spaces in the vomitary areas. Most of it doesn't even have to be football related or run by the club. You could even operate the cafe / bar as a waiting area for the airport parking allowing people to eat at a more reasonable price than St the airport.

Div, I've never done the full tour of the stadium to see what potential there is in there. I'm sure something could be done though to fill every space. However what was always obvious was that the build didn't incorporate enough to get people coming in on non match days. It should have been a priority to get people in every night, winter and summer. An Astroturf pitch and a running track could have done that in large numbers but many on here rubbished that - you included.

 

Delighted to see that brilliant idea resurface again. It's such a fantastic idea that every new football ground in Britain in the last five years has a running track.

[FTOF]

5 hours ago, Kombibuddie said:

 

Folk are hazarding guesses in excess of 200 members but nobody seems to know for sure. Perhaps someone who knows Alan Wardrop (as he was the figurehead of this project) could ask him to clarify unless it is a bit of a secret society.

 

As far as I'm aware the names of all the founder members are on a big board in the 1877 club.

Not very secretive.

Maybe someone could nip in and count them.

It'll cost a non-member £6 though.

[pozbaird]

10 minutes ago, FTOF said:

As far as I'm aware the names of all the founder members are on a big board in the 1877 club.

Not very secretive.

Maybe someone could nip in and count them.

It'll cost a non-member £6 though.

 

Names you say? On a board? Up at the stadium? Nope, I have no interest in boards going up at the stadium. 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

I was in Paisley today waiting for my car which was being serviced at a garage in Phoenix Park Linwood / Elderslie / Paisley / Neverland / Narnia / The Twilight Zone.

Trying to think of a reason I would go to the Paisley 2021 Dinkydome for a cappucino on a Monday at 11am.

Nope. Fcuking stupid idea, stayed in town and went to Blend on Causeyside St.

Not forgetting the Starbucks, linwood farm, greggs, Asda, McDonald's coffee options at the aforementioned twilight zone.

Overarching factor for a coffee shop is footfall. If it's intermittent then a vending machine is a better option ( depending on taste obviously).

[Bud the Baker]

16 minutes ago, FTOF said:

As far as I'm aware the names of all the founder members are on a big board in the 1877 club.

Not very secretive.

Maybe someone could nip in and count them.

It'll cost a non-member £6 though.

The more I hear about this club the more it appeals to me - it could become a sorta Diogenes club where members are not allowed to talk to each other but just seethe in silence after another setback for the Saints.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Bud the Baker

[Stuart Dickson]

2 hours ago, div said:

You rubbished the Dome. Now you're saying we're sitting on a goldmine of coffee drinkers because of the Dome?

The Car Park is already being used 7 days a week.

The running track was rubbished because it was an absolutely f**king ridiculous idea.

The 1877 club could definitely be a venue used for funeral parties, business meetings and the like but as a Coffee Shop? I'm not so sure.

Ah now see here's the issue I have with you a lot of the time Div. Check your own website. 

1. I have never claimed that anything at Greenhill Road will ever be a gold mine. Nothing, whether it's football or cups of coffee. Don't put words in my mouth. 

2. I objected to the use of public funding being used to finance the dome when the dome clearly wasn't going to be given to the community to use. I also objected to SMiSA money being used to put an asset onto the stadium at a point where the board of directors were trying to sell the club - especially when it was the supporters of the club they were trying to offload their shares too. 

3. The car park is indeed being used 7 days per week, by a company who have rented the space off St Mirren FC. Any profits do not go directly to the club. What does appear ridiculous though is that where you have footfall there's no attempt to cash in on it. 

4. Going by the figures at Motherwell AC, the running track brings in around 50 kids a night on training nights. There are bigger running clubs through in Renfrewshire. On race event days you are looking at several thousands of people in attendance either competing or watching and in all day long. It's a shame St Mirren thought it was ridiculous when West Ham found solutions and the Maracana is still classed as one of the legendary football stadiums despite the running track. 

5. So long as there is footfall into the stadium 365 days a year, or at least most of the days per year there is potential for increased revenue. If the stadium continues to operate as an 18 days a year venue it continues to be nothing more than an expensive white elephant built as a vanity project rather than a viable business location

Edited August 29, 2016 by Stuart Dickson

[Stuart Dickson]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

Delighted to see that brilliant idea resurface again. It's such a fantastic idea that every new football ground in Britain in the last five years has a running track.

One has.....at West Ham. One of the most lauded new projects too. A cracker and a solution that sees retractable seats in place. 

[div]

9 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Ah now see here's the issue I have with you a lot of the time Div. Check your own website. 

1. I have never claimed that anything at Greenhill Road will ever be a gold mine. Nothing, whether it's football or cups of coffee. Don't put words in my mouth. 

2. I objected to the use of public funding being used to finance the dome when the dome clearly wasn't going to be given to the community to use. I also objected to SMiSA money being used to put an asset onto the stadium at a point where the board of directors were trying to sell the club - especially when it was the supporters of the club they were trying to offload their shares too. 

3. The car park is indeed being used 7 days per week, by a company who have rented the space off St Mirren FC. Any profits do not go directly to the club. What does appear ridiculous though is that where you have footfall there's no attempt to cash in on it. 

4. Going by the figures at Motherwell AC, the running track brings in around 50 kids a night on training nights. There are bigger running clubs through in Renfrewshire. On race event days you are looking at several thousands of people in attendance either competing or watching and in all day long. It's a shame St Mirren thought it was ridiculous when West Ham found solutions and the Maracana is still classed as one of the legendary football stadiums despite the running track. 

5. So long as there is footfall into the stadium 365 days a year, or at least most of the days per year there is potential for increased revenue. If the stadium continues to operate as an 18 days a year venue it continues to be nothing more than an expensive white elephant built as a vanity project rather than 

West Ham found a solution by renting out a stadium that was already built to be an athletics stadium. Even for you that's an absurd example to give.

Like it or not, athletics is a minority sport. How many track meets are there in Scotland every year where "several thousand people attend" ?

Why, if Athletics truly is the holy grail, did the SFA spend tens of millions of pounds converting Hampden BACK from an athletics stadium after the Commonwealth games?

Maybe you know something that nobody else does.

50 kids a night training in a Motherwell running track? So the equivalent of 3 x 7-a-side bookings at the Dome then. Wow, big ticket stuff.

The company renting the car park are renting the space off St.Mirren FC but any profits do not go directly to the club? Yes, but the rent does, at no risk to the club. The club knows the square root of fuck all about running an airport car parking business.

As for cashing in on the footfall of an airport car park the general aim of these is you know, for people to park and then travel either to the airport or to home. Do you think the average family is going to arrive after a flight and go, you know what, I fancy a three course meal in that football stadium. You'll need to point out the airport car parks with restaurants in them cos I certainly ain't ever seen one. Again maybe you know something that everyone else in the industry has failed to spot.

You really do talk some amount of shite mate. No offence.

[Stuart Dickson]

2 hours ago, div said:

Waiting on their kids doing what?

Most of the kids stuff is at Ralston, and the community stuff is generally out and about at Primary Schools, no?

Anything you want. There's space that can be filled and it doesn't have to be run by St Mirren FC either. It's sad when you see "dyed in the wool fans" lacking in the ability to see how a football club professing to have the community at it's heart can become the heart of the community. 

I keep highlighting what has happened at the Atlantis Sports Centre in Oban as a triumph for community ownership. A very limited sports facility that has just continued to expand and expand and which now has world class facilities for a number of sports. It seems you don't know how to work Google.