Rae Must Go!

[athens-saint]

Get Jack Ross in...

What a job he is doing at Alloa.

Rae is just a thug, no?

 

[BuddieinEK]

Get Jack Ross in...

What a job he is doing at Alloa.

Rae is just a thug, no?

 

"a thug"

Care to qualify that allegation?

[windae cleaner]

15 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Deary me. Last week we had 3 players playing their first games back in the starting XI as they come back from injury (Morgan, MacKenzie and Quinn). We still have Ben Gordon and Calum Gallacher to return. Do you suppose that with Quinn getting 45 minutes under his belt that he is up to match fitness or has struck up a rapport with Hutton (who he replaced)? Do you think one first team game means that is MacKenzie back at his best or that one extra time win means everyone has their confidence back.

Neither goalkeeper has looked clever in the last 3 or 4 games, and it's not clear yet who our first choice keeper for the season will be. In the same time frame Irvine, Stewart and McDonald have played at left back, Naismith and Irvine have played as right backs and in the centre we have had Baird, Webster and MacKenzie. Gordon has yet to feature but may do so soon. We don't yet have a settled back 4, and have tried going with a back 3 a few times as well.

If we lump lots of pressure on the manager and players after the first few games, odds are they will feel the pressure and not enjoy playing and lose confidence and not make the best decisions. It's going to take a few games for guys like Quinn, Morgan, MacKenzie to get match fit and to gel with the rest of the team or for new signings (Gordon and MacKenzie) to settle in. 

The players and manager lump the pressure on themselves

The results have been poor but more importantly the performances have been dreadful

We stole our 2 points in the league

The defence is a bombscare with the same unit gifting cheap goals every single week

This is the biggest concern for me and he needs to sort this out first

No excuses from Rae as he pick these same players week in,week out and they continue to let him down

Defending from your 18 yard box puts you on the backfoot right away

I hope Rae and Farrell have been on the training ground working on this as it's the biggest problem

[munoz]

1 hour ago, Kendo said:

The thing is we have maxed out our players budget. 

Can we afford to cut loose both Rae and Farrell? Even if we can there is no guarantee that the new management team will succeed. 

I agree with sonny, our performances have been dire it's difficult to see how this can be turned around. However I'm hanging on to a slither of desperate hope that Quinn and Mackenzie coming back in could make a difference and get us back on track.

 

You may be correct about the budget , but can we afford another relegation ? 

[faraway saint]

1 hour ago, athens-saint said:

Get Jack Ross in...

What a job he is doing at Alloa.

Rae is just a thug, no?

 

No. 

[faraway saint]

5 minutes ago, munoz said:

You may be correct about the budget , but can we afford another relegation ? 

The comments on the budget are far more likely that relegation. 

[Ronnie]

20 hours ago, ged62 said:

Yes let's just keep sacking managers after a handful of games. Some people on here really need to get a reality check. Yes the manager picks the team & the tactics but once the players are on its down to them to cut out the silly defensive mistakes. He didn't ask our keeper to punch the ball out that lead to their first goal. Plus it's down to the individual player if he can't make a simple pass to his own team mate or show a bit of commitment on 50/50 balls.

"Yeah lets keep sacking managers after a handful of games".

We have sacked 1 Manager since 2003 and since when did 9 games become a handful? don't know about you but I would say 5 games is a handful.

Rae is a terrible manager and he really needs to go asap stop messing about it's not working get a new manager (John Hughes) in before a 3rd season fighting relegation.

[munoz]

2 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

The comments on the budget are far more likely that relegation. 

You obviously haven't seen many games this season . 

Ayr United looked better than us the other week - where are they in the league ? 

[faraway saint]

Just now, munoz said:

You obviously haven't seen many games this season . 

Ayr United looked better than us the other week - where are they in the league ? 

Aye, well if your that sure put your money where your mouth is and stick a bet on us to get relegated.

You do know it's only been a few games and have you seen all the other teams? 

 

[Dibbles old paperboy]

5 minutes ago, athens-saint said:

Get Jack Ross in...

What a job he is doing at Alloa.

Rae is just a thug, no?

 

A new nadir in the recent history of BAWA to label our manager "just a thug". All for what, recommending someone who has a grand total of 4 league games experience as a No.1. Jack Ross might well turn out to be a really good manager. He's signed a lot of ex-team mates and ex-Alloa-players-who-didn't-make-it-elsewhere and he's done brilliantly in the cups and league in the first 2 months of his career as a manager. I'd suggest that recipe he has used at Alloa may not be just the ticket for seeing St Mirren promoted. Let's see what happens if Alloa lose a game or two or their confidence takes a knock or they have a few injuries and suspensions to deal with.

For the record, I have no idea if Rae will turn out to be capable of leading us to promotion or not. I think last season he turned a poor squad who were easily beaten into one able to grind out results well enough to become one of the form teams in the 2nd half of the season while still being dull and uninspiring to watch. I think over the close season he took the view that maybe 7 or 8 of last year's team that finished the season could be regular 1st team players and do a job at this level and to that he has brought in Morgan from the U20's, Walsh and Hardie, Sutton, Hutton, MacKenzie and Gordon to add competition, versatility and options to change things. Maybe he should have got rid of more players than he did in the summer, or maybe he took the view that we had established a platform on which to build and that as the new additions settled in we should be able to put in a stronger challenge this season for a promotion play off place. I think Rae has improved our options in attack and in defence but has still got to sort out the midfield and goalkeeper positions over the next couple of windows. Has any St Mirren manager had a perfect window where all the weaknesses were sorted in 1 go? 

My disappointment so far has been to see the midfield be so poor again.

I think Rae has handled himself well when dealing with fans and the media and represents the club well in public, and I also respect the fact that he bounced back 20 years ago or so from having an addiction and has spent time outside of football activities helping other addicts to recover and for that reason I find it very offensive to see him labelled as "just a thug". Given last week's study listing Ferguslie Park the most deprived area in Scotland with major addiction problems being part of the reason for that I'm proud that we have someone like Alex Rae in charge of a community club like St Mirren. Rae has handled himself with a lot more class and dignity than some St Mirren fans have when we have played 9 competitive games this season won 4 (Livingston, Ayr, Edinburgh City, Albion Rovers), lost 3 (Hamilton Accies, Hibs, Raith Rovers), drawn 2 (Morton, Ayr) and think that record deserves the sack before we have played our 5th league game of the season.

[nedflanders123]

1 hour ago, munoz said:

You obviously haven't seen many games this season . 

Ayr United looked better than us the other week - where are they in the league ? 

Played us twice and still didn't beat us. Talk of relegation after 4 league games is uber knickerwetting. At least allow the injured experienced players to get a few games and see what difference they make.

If this team finish below Ayr and Dumbarton then we deserve to go down. We are a better squad than them despite performing poorly at present.  It won't get that far as AR will have until end of October at least. If nothing changes then a decision will be made. I also think some players need a good look at themselves even this early in the season. 

[saintargyll]

3 minutes ago, nedflanders123 said:

Played us twice and still didn't beat us. Talk of relegation after 4 league games is uber knickerwetting. At least allow the injured experienced players to get a few games and see what difference they make.

If this team finish below Ayr and Dumbarton then we deserve to go down. We are a better squad than them despite performing poorly at present.  It won't get that far as AR will have until end of October at least. If nothing changes then a decision will be made. I also think some players need a good look at themselves even this early in the season. 

Its not just that Ned..we are not looking to just survive we should be looking at promotion this year but the way things are going it does not look like it

of course your right when you say its only 4 league games but we are playing catch up already

[nedflanders123]

15 minutes ago, saintargyll said:

Its not just that Ned..we are not looking to just survive we should be looking at promotion this year but the way things are going it does not look like it

of course your right when you say its only 4 league games but we are playing catch up already

Agree. Our aim is to get into the play-offs and there is plenty of time to do that, 32 games and 96 points.  I am not happy with the tactics, performance and weak midfield. I hope the return of Quinn et AL will strengthen that key deficiency.  This is the toughest league with anyone capable of winning on the day (even us).  

[munoz]

3 hours ago, faraway saint said:

Aye, well if your that sure put your money where your mouth is and stick a bet on us to get relegated.

You do know it's only been a few games and have you seen all the other teams? 

 

I don't believe I said we would get relegated . 

One thing for sure is , if we carry on this form for the next 5 to 10 games , our season will be a write off .

Edited September 6, 2016 by munoz

[proudtobeabuddy]

21 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

We are on Rae's worst run of results / form in the league. Let's just tough it out and see if the team gets back to winning ways and should that happen some confidence will return to players one by one and we could look a different side in a few weeks time with a full squad of fit players to choose from.

I hope we improve for everyone's sake.

[TopCat]

A new nadir in the recent history of BAWA to label our manager "just a thug". All for what, recommending someone who has a grand total of 4 league games experience as a No.1. Jack Ross might well turn out to be a really good manager. He's signed a lot of ex-team mates and ex-Alloa-players-who-didn't-make-it-elsewhere and he's done brilliantly in the cups and league in the first 2 months of his career as a manager. I'd suggest that recipe he has used at Alloa may not be just the ticket for seeing St Mirren promoted. Let's see what happens if Alloa lose a game or two or their confidence takes a knock or they have a few injuries and suspensions to deal with.

For the record, I have no idea if Rae will turn out to be capable of leading us to promotion or not. I think last season he turned a poor squad who were easily beaten into one able to grind out results well enough to become one of the form teams in the 2nd half of the season while still being dull and uninspiring to watch. I think over the close season he took the view that maybe 7 or 8 of last year's team that finished the season could be regular 1st team players and do a job at this level and to that he has brought in Morgan from the U20's, Walsh and Hardie, Sutton, Hutton, MacKenzie and Gordon to add competition, versatility and options to change things. Maybe he should have got rid of more players than he did in the summer, or maybe he took the view that we had established a platform on which to build and that as the new additions settled in we should be able to put in a stronger challenge this season for a promotion play off place. I think Rae has improved our options in attack and in defence but has still got to sort out the midfield and goalkeeper positions over the next couple of windows. Has any St Mirren manager had a perfect window where all the weaknesses were sorted in 1 go? 

My disappointment so far has been to see the midfield be so poor again.

I think Rae has handled himself well when dealing with fans and the media and represents the club well in public, and I also respect the fact that he bounced back 20 years ago or so from having an addiction and has spent time outside of football activities helping other addicts to recover and for that reason I find it very offensive to see him labelled as "just a thug". Given last week's study listing Ferguslie Park the most deprived area in Scotland with major addiction problems being part of the reason for that I'm proud that we have someone like Alex Rae in charge of a community club like St Mirren. Rae has handled himself with a lot more class and dignity than some St Mirren fans have when we have played 9 competitive games this season won 4 (Livingston, Ayr, Edinburgh City, Albion Rovers), lost 3 (Hamilton Accies, Hibs, Raith Rovers), drawn 2 (Morton, Ayr) and think that record deserves the sack before we have played our 5th league game of the season.

Jack Ross has just 4 league games experience as a manager? Eh?

He was appointed Alloa manager in December 2015 after Danny Lennon left. He managed Alloa against us twice last season.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

I had realised after I posted about Ross only having 4 league games experience as a manager that he took over Alloa around the same time Rae came in at St Mirren. The 2 teams met 3 times in the league after both men were in charge: 

19th December 2015: Alloa 0 - St Mirren 2

30th January 2016: St Mirren 3 - Alloa 1

26th March 2016: Alloa 0 - St Mirren 1

'Tactically inept' Rae has a 100% record in head to heads with Jack Ross. 9 points to nil and 6 goals to 1.

If we want to take into account Jack Ross's time at Alloa last year we can see that his appointment made no difference to Alloa's bid to avoid relegation. They finished the season better but there was no miraculous turnaround in the first few months. He has probably bought  shrewdly over the summer and with going down a league he has got them off to a flyer. He may well have improved Alloa in his first full season in charge but we'll only really be able to know for sure how much better they have become if he leads them back to the Championship next year and see how they fare then.

[TopCat]

I had realised after I posted about Ross only having 4 league games experience as a manager that he took over Alloa around the same time Rae came in at St Mirren. The 2 teams met 3 times in the league after both men were in charge: 

19th December 2015: Alloa 0 - St Mirren 2

30th January 2016: St Mirren 3 - Alloa 1

26th March 2016: Alloa 0 - St Mirren 1

'Tactically inept' Rae has a 100% record in head to heads with Jack Ross. 9 points to nil and 6 goals to 1.

If we want to take into account Jack Ross's time at Alloa last year we can see that his appointment made no difference to Alloa's bid to avoid relegation. They finished the season better but there was no miraculous turnaround in the first few months. He has probably bought  shrewdly over the summer and with going down a league he has got them off to a flyer. He may well have improved Alloa in his first full season in charge but we'll only really be able to know for sure how much better they have become if he leads them back to the Championship next year and see how they fare then.

Far from me to pretend I'm any expert on Alloa, their fans on PNB are big fans of Ross. Regarding last season, the Alloa fans consensus seemed to be that Danny Lennon had made such a mess of their squad in the summer (sound familiar?) that they were beyond help by the time Ross came in.

He still improved them hugely and they got some respectable results (drawing with Rangers and beating Hibs and Raith for example) but it was too late. I hardly think crowing over Rae's record with a full time team against Ross's with a part time team is fair comparison either. We never managed a single win against a top 4 side all season last term, Ross got 2 in half a season with a part time team who were as good as down when he took over.

I don't think Rae should be sacked now, but I think he should be if we don't win any of our next 3 games. August was terrible, and as a result the pressure is now on him to make September better. If he doesn't he will be gone by October, I don't think he will get till December like our last two managers got. He's not got the excuse of needing time, he's already had time and he's taking us backwards.

If he does go I think our next manager should and will be be one of either Jack Ross or Gus MacPherson.

[billyg]

2 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

 

'Tactically inept' Rae has a 100% record in head to heads with Jack Ross. 9 points to nil and 6 goals to 1.

 

According to Alloa fans Ross has them playing as an organised unit. Lack of organisation is probably the most glaring fault in Rae's side this season !

[Stuart Dickson]

10 hours ago, Ronnie said:

"Yeah lets keep sacking managers after a handful of games".

We have sacked 1 Manager since 2003 and since when did 9 games become a handful? don't know about you but I would say 5 games is a handful.

Rae is a terrible manager and he really needs to go asap stop messing about it's not working get a new manager (John Hughes) in before a 3rd season fighting relegation.

Depends how big your hands are  

[northendsaint]

Promotion was not high on my agenda this season as we do not have the cash to sustain a team in the top flight at the moment.I was looking more at stability and finishing mid table allowing us the time to bring through our own kids who appear to be in plentiful supply.Im looking for a Fergies Furies type team in next seasons campaign with a team capable of sustaining premier league status rather than coming straight back down.

I would ask that as many of you as possible attend the under 20,s games and assess what we have as I'm sure you will be filled with optimism and positivity for the future.They don't play tippy tappy football with no end result.Its high tempo quality football and I am excited for the future of our club.

 

 

[Chris]

16 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

I think Rae has improved our options in attack and in defence but has still got to sort out the midfield and goalkeeper positions over the next couple of windows. Has any St Mirren manager had a perfect window where all the weaknesses were sorted in 1 go? 

My disappointment so far has been to see the midfield be so poor again.

I thought Rae's signings seemed excellent on paper. However, it does not seem to me that either the defence or the attack has improved in reality. That is what concerns me the most. It is obvious why the attack hasn't improved, when Rae insists on dreadful long balls to small strikers missing out our only creative player in the middle. Quite why the defence has been so poor, I'm not really sure. Rae has a lot of problems to solve.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

20 minutes ago, Chris said:

I thought Rae's signings seemed excellent on paper. However, it does not seem to me that either the defence or the attack has improved in reality. That is what concerns me the most. It is obvious why the attack hasn't improved, when Rae insists on dreadful long balls to small strikers missing out our only creative player in the middle. Quite why the defence has been so poor, I'm not really sure. Rae has a lot of problems to solve.

Gordon and MacKenzie were signed to add to last year's defenders and both have had injuries in pre-season and the start of the league campaign. Now that both have started to get games in the U20s to help get their fitness back hopefully we will see them strengthen the defence as they get in contention for the first team.

I've felt bad for our forwards this season, the service from midfield and defence has been really poor they have been feeding off scraps and have had very few clear cut chances to miss.

[windae cleaner]

7 hours ago, northendsaint said:

Promotion was not high on my agenda this season as we do not have the cash to sustain a team in the top flight at the moment.I was looking more at stability and finishing mid table allowing us the time to bring through our own kids who appear to be in plentiful supply.Im looking for a Fergies Furies type team in next seasons campaign with a team capable of sustaining premier league status rather than coming straight back down.

I would ask that as many of you as possible attend the under 20,s games and assess what we have as I'm sure you will be filled with optimism and positivity for the future.They don't play tippy tappy football with no end result.Its high tempo quality football and I am excited for the future of our club.

 

 

Big Man the U/20's have been decent for a number of years finishing high in their league

The fitba that is on show is like night and day compared with our first  team the last 3 seasons

How many of these boys come through is the main question

Lewis McLear has been impressive for a couple of seasons but still well down the pecking order

Mid table suggests a few wins along the way and that position is looking hopeful at the moment

 

[athens-saint]

On September 6, 2016 at 10:59 AM, BuddieinEK said:

What do you think Thommo meant when he said Rae`s approach was different....???

"a thug"

Care to qualify that allegation?