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Lord Pityme

Who Wants Rae tae Stay?

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4 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Home many home league wins did Tommy Craig, Ian Murray and Gary Teale achieve during their 18 months in charge... and how many has Alex Rae had in about 6 months of league football at Greenhill Road?

Craig/Teale 3, Murray 1, Rae 4. My point was that the apathy around the place goes back longer than Alex Raes tenure, so there is greater urgency for things to be put right. I wasn't comparing their managerial records. However, right now feels the same as our previous 2 starts. 

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8 minutes ago, Gordy 1877 said:

My point was that the apathy around the place goes back longer than Alex Raes tenure.

 

Absolutely, and the specific time it began was a week of Bull Inn club sanctioned celebration, followed by the arse falling out of what was left of that season.... IMHO all you need to picture in your mind to trace the source of our slow four-year decline is the Bull Inn and a pint tumbler.

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Unfortunately I think we'll be stuck with Rae until the end of the season and his contract won't be renewed, unless we are really struggling and there is a real threat of relegation similar to the Murray fiasco. 

Rae has signed good players but the balance of the squad is completely wrong. 

Wee Gus to be back in charge for the start of next season I think :ph34r: 

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The main problem for me isn't the formation or players Rae puts on the park but the basic tactics. We signed Sutton who is great with his head and we signed a couple of wingers and gave Morgan a new contract.. so you would think we would play with width and get to the byline to get crosses in for Sutton to attack. For the entire 90 mins on Saturday Irvine and then Walsh when he came on were launching in crosses from just past the half way line and even in our own half a few times. The only time we put crosses in from the final 3rd was a couple of corners and the long throws which eventually led to the goal. Long balls into the box from that far up the park is so easy to defend against, the best Sutton can do is try to knock it down to Hardie or Clarkson but that just wasn't happening. It was obvious to myself and everyone standing around me that this wasn't working but we continued to do it the whole game.

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8 minutes ago, div said:

I generally pick and choose my away games these days as frankly other than the social side of it I haven't enjoyed watching St.Mirren very much in the last 3 years.

I was there on Saturday and I didn't enjoy much of the 90 minutes, and I left Somerset pretty despondant.

On Sunday though I watched the highlights again and I looked for some positives.

Personally I think the new shape has some legs in it. The 3-4-1-2 formation offers us more protection in the middle of defence and allows us to play three of our attacking players.

I thought it looked better on Saturday, particularly in the second half when we started to get the ball down and play.

We were without MacKenzie, Gordon, Quinn, Gallagher and Morgan on Saturday. That's five players most of whom might be expected to start in a full strength side. The manager has bought in a fair few players but we're still operating with a 20 man first team squad. Take 25% of those players out and we're going to struggle and so we are.

The international break is coming at a good time for us. The Albion Rovers match will surely see Gordon and MacKenzie play, and we also have a 20s game tomorrow against ICT where they can get game time. I feel MacKenzie in particular will be a big addition for us. Hopefully he'll provide the leadership we're sorely lacking. Quinn will also hopefully be on the road to recovery by the time QoS come to visit.

The manager came in last season and made us harder to beat. In the summer he's assembled his own squad and whilst it hasn't quite happened for him yet I personally see no reason to even think about sacking him after 4 league games.

Confidence in football is massive. If we can get a win under our belts the players will start playing with a bit more belief and start passing the ball more. At the moment some of them look a bag of nerves and that is why they are shelling it. It's an easy option.

I remain confident that we will get those wins soon and start moving up the table. Keep the faith and all that!

 

Div, think your in the minority here personally I do see the merits of sacking him after 4 games (pretty sure 99.9% of Saints fans agree we gave TC and IM too much time before sacking TC & IM Resigning), we are making the same mistake with Rae here keep him in job and season will be a 7-10 place fighting against relegation all season.

Sack him get John Hughes in and have a chance to make the play offs.

Rae got the initial reaction from players who lets face it stopped playing for IM they wanted him out so IMO stopped trying but the performances were alot poorer than the results under Rae last season.

There is a reason Rae wasn't a Manager for over 7 years and that is he's not very good his appointment was the cheap option again like TC, hopefully our new board has a pair of balls someone has to be first manager sacked every season lets hope it's Alex Rae and we can salvage something from another terrible start.

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1 minute ago, irvine_buddie said:

The main problem for me isn't the formation or players Rae puts on the park but the basic tactics. We signed Sutton who is great with his head and we signed a couple of wingers and gave Morgan a new contract.. so you would think we would play with width and get to the byline to get crosses in for Sutton to attack. For the entire 90 mins on Saturday Irvine and then Walsh when he came on were launching in crosses from just past the half way line and even in our own half a few times. The only time we put crosses in from the final 3rd was a couple of corners and the long throws which eventually led to the goal. Long balls into the box from that far up the park is so easy to defend against, the best Sutton can do is try to knock it down to Hardie or Clarkson but that just wasn't happening. It was obvious to myself and everyone standing around me that this wasn't working but we continued to do it the whole game.

I'd agree with that mate.

Stewart and Irvine wouldn't be anyone's choices for wing backs. With MacKenzie and Gordon fit we could afford to put Naismith at Right Wing Back, where I think he'd be decent. The best part of his game is when he's allowed to bomb forward IMO.

On the left it remains to be seen if Morgan could really play as a Wing Back but he'd definitely be more effective than Stewart in that role IMO.

Either way we do need to get the ball wide and get to the byeline, as that is when Sutton is going to be most effective.

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4 minutes ago, Ronnie said:

Div, think your in the minority here personally I do see the merits of sacking him after 4 games (pretty sure 99.9% of Saints fans agree we gave TC and IM too much time before sacking TC & IM Resigning), we are making the same mistake with Rae here keep him in job and season will be a 7-10 place fighting against relegation all season.

Sack him get John Hughes in and have a chance to make the play offs.

Rae got the initial reaction from players who lets face it stopped playing for IM they wanted him out so IMO stopped trying but the performances were alot poorer than the results under Rae last season.

There is a reason Rae wasn't a Manager for over 7 years and that is he's not very good his appointment was the cheap option again like TC, hopefully our new board has a pair of balls someone has to be first manager sacked every season lets hope it's Alex Rae and we can salvage something from another terrible start.

I'd concede I am in the minority mate, that doesn't really concern me, all about opinions and all.

I backed all the other managers long after most had given up on them and in the most part everyone else was proven right with the exception probably of Gus.

I'd like to see what difference MacKenzie & Quinn make when they are fit. It's a wee bit unfair to judge the manager on his transfer dealings in the summer when two of them haven't even kicked a ball.

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13 minutes ago, div said:

I'd concede I am in the minority mate, that doesn't really concern me, all about opinions and all.

I backed all the other managers long after most had given up on them and in the most part everyone else was proven right with the exception probably of Gus.

I'd like to see what difference MacKenzie & Quinn make when they are fit. It's a wee bit unfair to judge the manager on his transfer dealings in the summer when two of them haven't even kicked a ball.

I'm usually a bit of a negative cnut, but I would agree, especially about Quinn and MacKenzie.

He's been without arguably our main midfielder, and possibly the first choice centre half. See how we play when those 2 are back.

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9 hours ago, div said:

I generally pick and choose my away games these days as frankly other than the social side of it I haven't enjoyed watching St.Mirren very much in the last 3 years.

I was there on Saturday and I didn't enjoy much of the 90 minutes, and I left Somerset pretty despondant.

On Sunday though I watched the highlights again and I looked for some positives.

Personally I think the new shape has some legs in it. The 3-4-1-2 formation offers us more protection in the middle of defence and allows us to play three of our attacking players.

I thought it looked better on Saturday, particularly in the second half when we started to get the ball down and play.

We were without MacKenzie, Gordon, Quinn, Gallagher and Morgan on Saturday. That's five players most of whom might be expected to start in a full strength side. The manager has bought in a fair few players but we're still operating with a 20 man first team squad. Take 25% of those players out and we're going to struggle and so we are.

The international break is coming at a good time for us. The Albion Rovers match will surely see Gordon and MacKenzie play, and we also have a 20s game tomorrow against ICT where they can get game time. I feel MacKenzie in particular will be a big addition for us. Hopefully he'll provide the leadership we're sorely lacking. Quinn will also hopefully be on the road to recovery by the time QoS come to visit.

The manager came in last season and made us harder to beat. In the summer he's assembled his own squad and whilst it hasn't quite happened for him yet I personally see no reason to even think about sacking him after 4 league games.

Confidence in football is massive. If we can get a win under our belts the players will start playing with a bit more belief and start passing the ball more. At the moment some of them look a bag of nerves and that is why they are shelling it. It's an easy option.

I remain confident that we will get those wins soon and start moving up the table. Keep the faith and all that!

 

He really should've signed an additional central midfield player, especially when operating with a small squad. I understand loaning shankland and/or hardie, but not both. Perhaps I'm doing him an injustice and the right person wasn't available, we'll never know. 

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8 minutes ago, Gordy 1877 said:

He really should've signed an additional central midfield player, especially when operating with a small squad. I understand loaning shankland and/or hardie, but not both. Perhaps I'm doing him an injustice and the right person wasn't available, we'll never know. 

No I think you are bang on with that mate. We've got five players that can play centre half (Webster, Naismith, MacKenzie, Gordon and Baird) and 4 that can play centre forward (Shanks, Hardie, Clarkson, Sutton) and yet in Central Midfield we have only three options in Mallan, Quinn & Hutton.

I'd contend that we should really have 4 options for central defence, central mid and up front so actually the problem for me, and I never thought I'd be typing this, is that we have too many centre halves!

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Just an observation, he'll a thought some might say.

Any decent team I've seen in any league set up over the years anywhere look like a potent threat when they have pace and width. It's a simple sounding observation but is and has been a constantly winning formula. 

I don't understand where the difficulty is, genuinely ?!

By setting up a team to be pacey through the middle and have some attempts at playing with width has always been a formula for success at any level. Are there no midfield players capable of passing and moving, and wingers playing football anymore ? 

3-4-2-1, 4-4-2, 4-3-2-1, 6-4, 5-5, 4-2-3-1, dress it up anyway you want but surely pace and width, wow, this surely isn't beyond the wit of coaching nowadays. It's what some fans want to see teams try to do. Any team that looks like it has pace about it will always appear to carry a threat.

Why do St Mirren look leaden footed, sluggish and scared to run fast with a football ? 

Only  askin like..............

:mellow:

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12 hours ago, div said:

I generally pick and choose my away games these days as frankly other than the social side of it I haven't enjoyed watching St.Mirren very much in the last 3 years.

I was there on Saturday and I didn't enjoy much of the 90 minutes, and I left Somerset pretty despondant.

On Sunday though I watched the highlights again and I looked for some positives.

Personally I think the new shape has some legs in it. The 3-4-1-2 formation offers us more protection in the middle of defence and allows us to play three of our attacking players.

I thought it looked better on Saturday, particularly in the second half when we started to get the ball down and play.

We were without MacKenzie, Gordon, Quinn, Gallagher and Morgan on Saturday. That's five players most of whom might be expected to start in a full strength side. The manager has bought in a fair few players but we're still operating with a 20 man first team squad. Take 25% of those players out and we're going to struggle and so we are.

The international break is coming at a good time for us. The Albion Rovers match will surely see Gordon and MacKenzie play, and we also have a 20s game tomorrow against ICT where they can get game time. I feel MacKenzie in particular will be a big addition for us. Hopefully he'll provide the leadership we're sorely lacking. Quinn will also hopefully be on the road to recovery by the time QoS come to visit.

The manager came in last season and made us harder to beat. In the summer he's assembled his own squad and whilst it hasn't quite happened for him yet I personally see no reason to even think about sacking him after 4 league games.

Confidence in football is massive. If we can get a win under our belts the players will start playing with a bit more belief and start passing the ball more. At the moment some of them look a bag of nerves and that is why they are shelling it. It's an easy option.

I remain confident that we will get those wins soon and start moving up the table. Keep the faith and all that!

 

My first contribution as a poster on here. In the main, I share the views expressed above. Alex Rae basically "saved our bacon" after joining the club as manager last season. Results over the rest of that season, taken on their own, would have shown us to be a top 4 side. Not bad. I stand to be corrected but check the stats out first.

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48 minutes ago, Seaside Nipper said:

Just an observation, he'll a thought some might say.

Any decent team I've seen in any league set up over the years anywhere look like a potent threat when they have pace and width. It's a simple sounding observation but is and has been a constantly winning formula. 

I don't understand where the difficulty is, genuinely ?!

By setting up a team to be pacey through the middle and have some attempts at playing with width has always been a formula for success at any level. Are there no midfield players capable of passing and moving, and wingers playing football anymore ? 

3-4-2-1, 4-4-2, 4-3-2-1, 6-4, 5-5, 4-2-3-1, dress it up anyway you want but surely pace and width, wow, this surely isn't beyond the wit of coaching nowadays. It's what some fans want to see teams try to do. Any team that looks like it has pace about it will always appear to carry a threat.

Why do St Mirren look leaden footed, sluggish and scared to run fast with a football ? 

Only  askin like..............

:mellow:

Good teams have a balance, they form good partnerships throughout the pitch eg full back and winger, centre backs, centre mids and strikers.  With the current team I don't see any strong partnerships being formed that will help the team progress. 

Full backs are key players in successful teams, they are the ones who have more of the ball than anyone else on the pitch and should provide chances.  Naismith is at his best when driving forward but he's barely crossed the halfway line, we have Irvine on the other side who has to check on to his right foot when he is further forward.  The balance of the whole team is wrong and I doubt McKenzie and Quinn are really going to fix that.

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11 hours ago, Yardley said:

Good teams have a balance, they form good partnerships throughout the pitch eg full back and winger, centre backs, centre mids and strikers.  With the current team I don't see any strong partnerships being formed that will help the team progress. 

Full backs are key players in successful teams, they are the ones who have more of the ball than anyone else on the pitch and should provide chances.  Naismith is at his best when driving forward but he's barely crossed the halfway line, we have Irvine on the other side who has to check on to his right foot when he is further forward.  The balance of the whole team is wrong and I doubt McKenzie and Quinn are really going to fix that.

I do think the full back area is one of concern.

I don't believe that Naismith has been told NOT to get forward but actually it's more like Jason just ain't playing very well right now. He's been poor since the season started.

Irvine also ain't really impressing me much on the other side I have to say.

I do think given that we have 5 centre half options that playing 3 at the back is a decent idea but it does rely heavily on the wing backs being decent and I'm not really convinced about any of our options there right now!

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11 hours ago, Yardley said:

Good teams have a balance, they form good partnerships throughout the pitch eg full back and winger, centre backs, centre mids and strikers.  With the current team I don't see any strong partnerships being formed that will help the team progress. 

Full backs are key players in successful teams, they are the ones who have more of the ball than anyone else on the pitch and should provide chances.  Naismith is at his best when driving forward but he's barely crossed the halfway line, we have Irvine on the other side who has to check on to his right foot when he is further forward.  The balance of the whole team is wrong and I doubt McKenzie and Quinn are really going to fix that.

Yup. Taking that on a level, any basic analysis of our players would suggest that by and large we are well short on the desired quality. That has to be a concern. On that basis I'd stick in a lot of youth, if we have any that is, and encourage them over a theree year cycle. We ain't going anywhere with plodding semi retirees and one season journeymen, that is distinctly clear.

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Don't want St Mirren to become one of those clubs that sack their manager as soon as they go through a bad patch. Fair enough a very poor start to the season but to be fair, I struggle to remember the last time we made a good start to a season and at least it's coming off a decent end to the 2015/16 season for which Rae was largely responsible.

I was reasonably pleased with the signings during the summer (maybe too many centre forwards but at least that's an attacking move) and surprised to see how badly they're faring. 'Sack The Manager' just adds another distraction and I'd prefer everyone's attention to be on backing the team.

Rae to stay.

 

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