Bobbyreid Posted September 10, 2016 Report Share Posted September 10, 2016 Whole defence was honking but when Rae is criticising his players in public then he has lost the dressing room. Back to the defence Gary McKenzie, he walked onto the pitch and walked back from corners, he was late with every challenge and no where near match fit. I wasn't at Cliftonhill but having seen him today I can understand why we lost goals from set pieces and I appreciate Langfield is crap. We cannot keep sacking managers but it is evident that there is something radically wrong between the players / management . Back 4 of Irvine, Gordon, Baird , Stewart next week please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 4 hours ago, elvis said: So if he gets the season and we get relegated what will your thoughts be then . That is a stupid question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tam M Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I thought Gus McPherson couldn't take us to the next stage, especially after the final that we don't talk about. I thought Danny Lennon couldn't take us to the next stage. After Tommy Craig, Gary Teale, Ian Murray and now Alex Rae...I'd f'king love a manager like Gus or Danny. We f'ked it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 31 minutes ago, Tam M said: I thought Gus McPherson couldn't take us to the next stage, especially after the final that we don't talk about. I thought Danny Lennon couldn't take us to the next stage. After Tommy Craig, Gary Teale, Ian Murray and now Alex Rae... I'd f'king love a manager like Gus or Danny. We f'ked it. I said then (both times) and I repeat now... be careful what you wish for! I was shot down in flames and accused of lacking ambition! We were in the top 10/12 clubs in the country ffs... what the hell was this mythical "next stage"? European football? It may well have come had we steadied the ship and allowed time. The next stage is a million miles away from where we are now! At least you have the balls to come back and admit that a different course of action could well have worked out better for us. Thing is... I will never shame ambition or enthusiasm, both of which fuelled your views at that time. Maybe we could all agree right now that there is no mythical "next stage" and just appreciate the good times for what they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Debaser Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I tend to agree with Raes assessment of the game yesterday, it was probably the best I have seen us play this season and the QOS goal came against the run of play. Up until then the only problems for us were created by Langfield either coming off his line when he shouldn't or staying on it when he should come out After we scored I thought we would kick on but the trio of Irvine, Webster and Langfield conspired to immediately throw the chance away. Maybe the double sub was a bit predictable, maybe giving Quinn a run would have helped but anyone that claims Webster was being humiliated by being subbed is just wrong. He was having a poor game when we had 4 at the back and that quickly turned into a nightmare when we went to 3. The only decision was whether to take him off or move back to 4 at the back. Without a left or right back available and chasing the game meant Webster had to come off for his own good. Why these experienced players are making so many poor decisions so often is unfathomable. Rae needs to be very ruthless with a couple of senior players who need dropped for their own good. Having said that I still think Langfield is better than Gallagher, how is our U20's keeper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Gingero Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Individual errors are costing us dearly. Our lack of a vocal, natural leader is there for all to see. I wasn't ever a fan of Goodwin but the side is crying out for him or someone similar. Confidence with the players is rock bottom and they must be shitting themselves to make a mistake as then the boos ring out round the stadium. Next week is a massive game. Start badly and the walk across the park could be a defining moment in AR's reign as St Mirren boss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddiecat Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 Quite simply embarrassing. Long fraught walk towards fans at Dumbarton is looming for the manager if we lose to the sons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 We live in different times, very different to when I started watching the saints half a century ago. Back then it was managers who ruled by fear, and players soaked in the work ethic that you did what the boss said no matter what. Rae doesnt seem to get, or is unable to get the basics of leading a team today! he openly criticies his players time and again, which can only be a reflection of how he leads them the rest of the time, i dont see players that have been coached to adapt to situations in a game, i see players week in week out playing out the definition of insanity, that being doing the same thing over and over again, but hoping for a different result! coaching in the modern day means the leader has to wear a range of hats to get the team (or teams... See Belbin) to a place where they take responsibility to play for the result. Its arms round shoulders, its having clear performance management/development plans for each individual, it's constantly giving them timely and relevant feedback with the right balance of praise and critique, think of the praise hamburger... The two slices of bun (critique) have to be served and consumed, but the burger (praise) has to be the right size, quality, taste etc to make the individual feel it is genuine and fulfilling. Rae seems to be only serving buns, in fact he is shelling the team with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 It's a results driven business, presently we are driving down south , Deep South. Lets be honest, the writing was on the wall at the league cup stage, the meek surrender, even at the pre real competition bit, the pish recruitment, the abrasive style of manager maybe not to everyone, or anyone's taste, now we have the latest reversal to a team that are well organised around a part time barman, f**k me !! My kids are now pointing and laughing at the team they support ffs ! We need to stop this reversal now. Step up Scott and Fitzpatrick, act now , get this shit sorted, somehow, NOW !! NOW !!! If it's a review, a method restructure, a sacking, I couldn't care, but we need a right good re assessment on the playing , managing , governance level and it should start tomorrow morning. If the present powers that be cannot get this sorted,well, they maybe need an honest look at what they are contributing and what effect it's having. How difficult is it ???? Maybe we are just continually unlucky <_ we erm don like pressure.> Imho we have players who find playing for us a chore FFS !!! If you know your history you will know Fitzy is extremely loyal to managers. As much as I don't want to see it Rae will be here for the foreseeable future. If we are still bottom come December I would expect Rae to go if not would expect Rae to see out his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyg Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: If you know your history you will know Fitzy is extremely loyal to managers. As much as I don't want to see it Rae will be here for the foreseeable future. If we are still bottom come December I would expect if not would expect Rae to see out his contract. Ian , if we go down this season then a complete re-structure would be required , possibly even part-time again. One things for sure , there'll be no room for a chief exec on the payroll. If we don't turn this season around then TFs job is in the balance too. Loyalty or not , if Rae can't turn results/performances in our favour he'll be gone , soon ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbie Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 and being an ex centre half will address the glaring deficiencies at the centre of our defence. To be fair mate, being an ex-player doesn't make you an expert. Look at Rae. How he can't see the glaring deficiencies in our midfield is utterly beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 4 hours ago, Lord Pityme said: he openly criticies his players time and again, which can only be a reflection of how he leads them the rest of the time, i dont see players that have been coached to adapt to situations in a game, i see players week in week out playing out the definition of insanity, that being doing the same thing over and over again, but hoping for a different result! I do love the way fans have said we are worse this season than last season under Ian Murray, and could be as bad or worse than under Coughlin and yet Rae is taking pelters for criticising the team in post-match comments. He is only stating the stunningly obvious in questioning our defending, we have given away howlers in at least 3 out of 5 league games. How is Rae doing the same thing over and over again? We have switched goalkeepers twice this season, Naismith and Irvine have played at right back, Irvine and Stewart have played at left back, Baird has been dropped, Webster has been subbed, MacKenze and Gordon have now been flung in while they are getting their match fitness back. What else do you suggest the manager does. If Rae came out an said he was happy with the players and liked what they were doing and was satisfied with the effort can you imagine the meltdown on here? People would be wondering if he was watching the same game as the fans or trying to pull the wool over our eyes. You could bet your bottom dollar that Rae would be getting no plaudits whatsoever from the fans for taking the heat off the players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabuddies Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Herbie said: To be fair mate, being an ex-player doesn't make you an expert. Look at Rae. How he can't see the glaring deficiencies in our midfield is utterly beyond me. How do you know that he can't see the midfield problems. Due to a serious injury to his first choice central midfielder (remember Quinn was who he brought in to sort it out last season) and the fact that he was unable to secure a further midfielder in the window, there is nothing he can do about it! Lots of talk on here about not signing a further midfielder before he signed Hardie. Christ, somebody yesterday posted that we needed a "midfield general". This is the second tier of one of the smallest leagues in Europe and we're skint - players like that are like hen's teeth at this level. Sure, he let Goodwin go at 34 (soon to be 35) but he signed Hutton, the QoS Player of the year last year in his place. We've got problems, sure. Players are seriously lacking confidence but all they get is abuse, particularly on here - how to motivate players I don't think. Time is needed and fans don't and indeed won't tolerate that sort of approach these days. We've played five league games and the knives are out for the management, the players and even the new chairman is coming under scrutiny. We need to take a long, hard look at how we support the team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 21 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: I do love the way fans have said we are worse this season than last season under Ian Murray, and could be as bad or worse than under Coughlin and yet Rae is taking pelters for criticising the team in post-match comments. He is only stating the stunningly obvious in questioning our defending, we have given away howlers in at least 3 out of 5 league games. How is Rae doing the same thing over and over again? We have switched goalkeepers twice this season, Naismith and Irvine have played at right back, Irvine and Stewart have played at left back, Baird has been dropped, Webster has been subbed, MacKenze and Gordon have now been flung in while they are getting their match fitness back. What else do you suggest the manager does. If Rae came out an said he was happy with the players and liked what they were doing and was satisfied with the effort can you imagine the meltdown on here? People would be wondering if he was watching the same game as the fans or trying to pull the wool over our eyes. You could bet your bottom dollar that Rae would be getting no plaudits whatsoever from the fans for taking the heat off the players. He has a training ground where he should be working on shape It's not just the defence that defends Teams walk through our midfield as he plays with 2 wingers There's no screen in front of the defence 4-4-2 ain't working yet he carries on playing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stlucifer Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, rabuddies said: How do you know that he can't see the midfield problems. Due to a serious injury to his first choice central midfielder (remember Quinn was who he brought in to sort it out last season) and the fact that he was unable to secure a further midfielder in the window, there is nothing he can do about it! Lots of talk on here about not signing a further midfielder before he signed Hardie. Christ, somebody yesterday posted that we needed a "midfield general". This is the second tier of one of the smallest leagues in Europe and we're skint - players like that are like hen's teeth at this level. Sure, he let Goodwin go at 34 (soon to be 35) but he signed Hutton, the QoS Player of the year last year in his place. We've got problems, sure. Players are seriously lacking confidence but all they get is abuse, particularly on here - how to motivate players I don't think. Time is needed and fans don't and indeed won't tolerate that sort of approach these days. We've played five league games and the knives are out for the management, the players and even the new chairman is coming under scrutiny. We need to take a long, hard look at how we support the team. OK Alex. Keep yer hair on..... You must be seething about your "real" team's gubbing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, windae cleaner said: He has a training ground where he should be working on shape It's not just the defence that defends Teams walk through our midfield as he plays with 2 wingers There's no screen in front of the defence 4-4-2 ain't working yet he carries on playing it So you want to drop Morgan our best player or Walsh (2 goals in the last 2 league games)? Who would you replace them with? PS If we go with a less attacking midfield and our goalkeeper and defenders still gift the opposition 1 or 2 goals a game and defenders won't mark, jump, chase or tackle how do you propose we score some goals? He didn't start 4-4-2 in the previous league game at Ayr and yet fans still post the definition of insanity line, he went to 3 at the back for the last 25 minutes against Morton as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTOF Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, rabuddies said: How do you know that he can't see the midfield problems. Due to a serious injury to his first choice central midfielder (remember Quinn was who he brought in to sort it out last season) and the fact that he was unable to secure a further midfielder in the window, there is nothing he can do about it! Lots of talk on here about not signing a further midfielder before he signed Hardie. Christ, somebody yesterday posted that we needed a "midfield general". Firstly, the reason why he couldn't sign a midfield player to be back up to Quinn (once he realised Hutton wasn't the answer) was because he had spunked his budget on four central defenders and four forwards. A "midfield general" is exactly what we need. Someone who can organise the midfield , because there sure as hell isn't anyone there at present doing that, and who can break up play effectively and pass to his teammates. Hen's teeth? Really? A Steven Thomson like player springs to mind, although obviously not as good as we're now scrabbling about in the championship. Maybe the manager envisaged Hutton as being that player. However, if he did then I'm afraid he didn't do his homework very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 38 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: I do love the way fans have said we are worse this season than last season under Ian Murray, and could be as bad or worse than under Coughlin and yet Rae is taking pelters for criticising the team in post-match comments. He is only stating the stunningly obvious in questioning our defending, we have given away howlers in at least 3 out of 5 league games. How is Rae doing the same thing over and over again? We have switched goalkeepers twice this season, Naismith and Irvine have played at right back, Irvine and Stewart have played at left back, Baird has been dropped, Webster has been subbed, MacKenze and Gordon have now been flung in while they are getting their match fitness back. What else do you suggest the manager does. If Rae came out an said he was happy with the players and liked what they were doing and was satisfied with the effort can you imagine the meltdown on here? People would be wondering if he was watching the same game as the fans or trying to pull the wool over our eyes. You could bet your bottom dollar that Rae would be getting no plaudits whatsoever from the fans for taking the heat off the players. Poor leaders publicly blame their team, real leaders anknowledge bad performances and describe how with their team they will rectify them. Rae is trying the slopey shoulders routine, he has signed, picked and coached the team that are having bad performances. He keeps playing the same style of hoof ball, not getting the wingers to drop back to link with the wing backs, and ignoring our non existent midfield issue. every team in this league now know how to beat us, its easy just put an extra man in midfield and you will walk through our midfield and defence. The other mistake he keeps repeating is playing all the ex, and loanee sevco players ( wonder why) every game when they are not delivering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windae cleaner Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: So you want to drop Morgan our best player or Walsh (2 goals in the last 2 league games)? Who would you replace them with? PS If we go with a less attacking midfield and our goalkeeper and defenders still gift the opposition 1 or 2 goals a game and defenders won't mark, jump, chase or tackle how do you propose we score some goals? He didn't start 4-4-2 in the previous league game at Ayr and yet fans still post the definition of insanity line, he went to 3 at the back for the last 25 minutes against Morton as well. He changes the system once we go behind The 2 in the middle ain't working as they don't win the ball and don't get about the pitch with any pace They look the part playing passes across the park hoping Morgan will beat the 2 players on him He also signed 3 forwards with zero movement the ball has to be at their feet He's made a mess of his transfer window Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said: The other mistake he keeps repeating is playing all the ex, and loanee sevco players ( wonder why) every game when they are not delivering. 75% of our league goals have come from the "loanee sevco players". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: So you want to drop Morgan our best player or Walsh (2 goals in the last 2 league games)? Who would you replace them with? PS If we go with a less attacking midfield and our goalkeeper and defenders still gift the opposition 1 or 2 goals a game and defenders won't mark, jump, chase or tackle how do you propose we score some goals? He didn't start 4-4-2 in the previous league game at Ayr and yet fans still post the definition of insanity line, he went to 3 at the back for the last 25 minutes against Morton as well. I would play a 3-4-3. Sutton needs crosses from the by-line and not the friigin half-way line. Have Morgan and Walsh the two wide men to provide them in a front 3. Midfield would be a diamond where Mallan plays up top just behind Sutton and Hutton plays in front of the back three but to protect anywhere along the back line. The other two would be tighter in midfield. Quinn and possibly Naismith as he is better going forward than defending. Back 3 of Baird and two from McKenzie, Gordon or Irvine. Webster as a last resort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabuddies Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 OK Alex. Keep yer hair on..... You must be seething about your "real" team's gubbing? [emoji33] Who the devil are you talking to? It certainly not me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Dibbles old paperboy said: 75% of our league goals have come from the "loanee sevco players". How many has Ryan 'I'll just sit up here and wait for it' Hardie got? how many has Webster helped us to lose? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsidebud Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 I was in the main stand and saw Webster "chasing down" the ball from a QoS attack in the second half. It was his all the way but he seemed to ease up and one the QoS boys nipped in and was away with it. I was astounded. I'm pretty sure it was the lead up to the second goal, but I'll be honest - all the mistakes are merging into one big clusterf**k in my memory already. Morgan, unlike most others, looked interested and Walsh was good in patches (the goal and his shot a minute or two later are the obvious examples) the rest were average to v. poor depending on your opinion. Webster's display really turned me against him. I have never seen anyone chuck it in the manner that I mentioned above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibbles old paperboy Posted September 11, 2016 Report Share Posted September 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said: How many has Ryan 'I'll just sit up here and wait for it' Hardie got? how many has Webster helped us to lose? How many goals do you reckon Hardie should have scored from his 3 games in the starting XI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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