Jump to content

Slash

Next St Mirren Manager - Merged

Recommended Posts

You were making a certain amount of sense until the bit above. You were one of the people in the summer saying it was time for Goodwin to go, his legs were done, and he was too old to play in the Championship. If you wish to have him in a non-playing capacity the club have already sacked him as a coach less than 2 years ago and you think we should promote him to manager? You'll be well aware a section of our support labelled Goodwin a liability as a player. 

No matter how often Thompson says he is not interested and wants to pursue his media career some people still keep nominating him for manager or assistant manager. The Hawk has supposedly told the media how much we are offering our next manager and it didn't sound like the kind of money he thought we should be offering.



Of course if you actually read the post you'd realise i wasn't advocating either Thompson or Goodwin for the managerial role. To appoint a rookie of full time management in this situation would be madness in my opinion.

On the other hand, as others have pointed out, Ross may turn out to be our Alex Neil. Or maybe Thompson would, or maybe Goodwin would, no way of knowing. They've all managed the same amount of full time teams in their life: 0. No idea what Jim's playing ability has to do with that right enough. The hypothetical advantage Jim and Thommo have over Ross and Fullarton is popularity with the fans.

The reality is most rookie managers fail. I can't recall the exact figure but I know most new first full time managers never get a second permanent full time managerial job in football. For every Alex Neil there is ten of Ian Murray, Gary Teale, Danny Lennon, Tom Hendrie, Eddie May, Allan Moore, James Fowler, James Grady, John Coughlin... I could certainly go on.

We might get lucky and get one of those rare rookie diamonds in Ross, could argue we are certainly due one. Only one of our managers this century has went on to have another permanent managerial position with a full time club after leaving us (Guess who). Doesn't work like that though, if we appoint a rookie manager it probably won't work out, the numbers don't lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In fairness Drew I think everyone who knew Alex Neil as a player knew he was going to go on to be a manager. He got into coaching the kids at Hamilton long before the end of his playing career and any kid or parent who worked with him and his team there would be gushing about him, even after Neil let them go. He was clearly a bit of a thinker when it came to the game and he had his vision and philosophy mapped out quite early and in general he's stuck to it, even when being relegated at Norwich. We're going back quite a while now too but I also remember tipping him as a future top manager whilst watching him play for Hamilton Accies in Division Two.  I don't think the same thing can be said about Jack Ross or about his time at Hearts. 




Just out of interest StuD... who out of the current players in Scotland are going to be good managers in future?

Will be handy info to have, hopefully our chairman will read your reply too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My mistake I should have said his "last assistant " , this is from his linked in profile ( and before you say I know it's written by him ) but nonetheless it does read rather impressively from his time at Motherwell.... Sheffield Utd not so much in terms of world class superstars but looks like he had lots of plans and ideas there before he left for Dundee Utd .. IMG_1475566031.379094.jpg

Linked In profiles.... :rolleyes:

The player sold to Fulham was Shaun Hutchinson. He signed for Motherwell from Wallasey United at the age of 17. The player sold to Celtic was Lewis Kidd who moved for £4k at the age of 13 or 14 when his wee brother Blair was also signed up. I couldn't find anyone that came through the Motherwell Academy who was sold to Man U. Luke Grimshaw moved the other way on loan before going back to Man U when his deal ended. I don't know if that refers to him or if he's talking about someone else. I wouldn't doubt his claim about the Motherwell Under 20s squad though. Most, if not all of the lads there have been there for a decent length of time and certainly Young was the man who scouted and signed Robbie Leitch and Adam Livingstone.

The indoor skill centre? I'm just hoping he doesn't mean he booked Ravenscraig.... :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


The spine of that Utd team was ripped out when they sold their best talent to Celtic the previous season then never replaced them with the same quality. The budget was also slashed from the previous seasons which usually seen them challenge for a top 3/4 finish. Whoever took that job on at the very most would have kept them up with the skin of their teeth. The utd job was to become a poisioned chalice for whoever inherited the job from mcnamara. To add, said player who went above his station, was released at the end of the season.


I don't pretend to be any expert on Dundee Utd, but it seems pretty well understood that Mixu relegated them with the 3rd biggest budget in the league last year. He spent a lot of money on ex EPL guys like Demel and Sinama Pongolle, signed the Japanese international goalkeeper.... and still couldn't even get them close to 11th.

Taking over a team who's bottom of the league despite having one of the biggest budgets... then getting them relegated. Doesn't exactly bode well does it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Kendo said:

There lies the reason for taking so long to try and ensure we get the right man in place. If we get this wrong then we will be in a really difficult position.

This is possibly one of the most crucial decisions that Gordon Scott and the BOD will take. The stakes are really high and god help us if we get it wrong. However I'm certain that Gordon Scott is well aware of this.

If you sack someone after six games you make a rod for your own back. Rae did what Ross couldnt and turned his club's fortunes round last season, this season he won all bar one pre-season/league/challenge cup games, then got three draws & three losses.

does anyone else think the board were over hasty to ditch Rae? It has cost us financially as well as stability, and if the next incumbent has a similar or poorer return in the next 6-7 games the pressure will be on to sack again. It is the definition of madness!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Lord Pityme said:

If you sack someone after six games you make a rod for your own back. Rae did what Ross couldnt and turned his club's fortunes round last season, this season he won all bar one pre-season/league/challenge cup games, then got three draws & three losses.

does anyone else think the board were over hasty to ditch Rae? It has cost us financially as well as stability, and if the next incumbent has a similar or poorer return in the next 6-7 games the pressure will be on to sack again. It is the definition of madness!

There were no green shoots of recovery during the latter stages of Rae's tenure. Nothing to suggest that he could turn it round. The players were absolutely devoid of confidence, to the extent that they genuinely looked afraid to play a pass. It was a pitiful state of affairs.

Yes, the players have to shoulder some responsibility, but only two games in since his departure, I think there are signs (albeit limited) that things could improve.

I actually think that the performances under Rae this season were worse than under Murray. He was absolutely killing any enthusiasm many of us had, despite such a sense of optimism before the season kicked off.

Too hasty? Nah.

History? Yes.

What is done is done. Time to move on, and hopefully in an upwards direction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Naw, I do not think we were too quick to dump Rae. He kept us up which was great but we only beat teams at the lower end playing some dire football. With a clearout and a bigger budget than most teams I wanted him to push on this season. But he assembled an imbalanced squad and stuck to a formation and tactic that was probably the worst I have ever seen. And he never changed it. Not once. Even though it was not working. McManus in 2 games have improved the football and used players better than Rae has ever done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, TopCat said:


Just out of interest StuD... who out of the current players in Scotland are going to be good managers in future?

Will be handy info to have, hopefully our chairman will read your reply too.
 

 

 

I've already named one - Keith Lasley. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Drew said:

:lol:

Ah well, Ross might as well chuck it if he hasn't been tipped by you to be a future top manager.

I wasn't claiming that Ross would be as successful as Neil has been. I was simply pointing out that experience isn't everything. Neil is a good example of this (and he was most certainly a rookie, regardless of how many kids he had coached).

 

:D That wasn't quite what I meant, although I see how I wrote it. I meant that most who watched Jack Ross play, particularly when at St Mirren, believed he was more likely to end up as a football pundit on TV rather than a boss. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Drew said:

There were no green shoots of recovery during the latter stages of Rae's tenure. Nothing to suggest that he could turn it round. The players were absolutely devoid of confidence, to the extent that they genuinely looked afraid to play a pass. It was a pitiful state of affairs.

Yes, the players have to shoulder some responsibility, but only two games in since his departure, I think there are signs (albeit limited) that things could improve.

I actually think that the performances under Rae this season were worse than under Murray. He was absolutely killing any enthusiasm many of us had, despite such a sense of optimism before the season kicked off.

Too hasty? Nah.

History? Yes.

What is done is done. Time to move on, and hopefully in an upwards direction.

Forget the names. So when the new manager comes in, and say we have a worse or similar set of results, should he/she get punted after six games too?

if that scenario (hopefully not) plays out There will be a clamour again, fed by a realisation that fan-pressure can get this board to bend and sack early. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Mykey said:

I met Campbell Money exactly once. So I really don't know him, however on that one occasion he was very nice.

Met him many times. Used to go into Love Street on a Monday night at the end of training, and stand at one end of the park while he practiced his goal kicks, we'd kick the baws back down to him. A true Saints Legend.

 

Still wouldn't have Fullarton in charge though, with or without Campbell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its becoming very tedious now. No information coming from the club and the excuse of no league game for another week and a half, so no hurry. Just this weeks exit from the challenge cup to ignore. Any last vestiges of enthusiasm are being swiftly drained from those remaining fans (less than 2k at the last count) and already most talk is that success would be avoiding relegation to the third division, the lowest point in Saints history. A big well done to those running my football club ! You have, in a few years, managed to alienate me from football via a combination of stultifying mediocrity on the pitch, managerial incompetence, scarcity of home wins and worst of all, overpricing at the turnstyle regardless of which division we are in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Forget the names. So when the new manager comes in, and say we have a worse or similar set of results, should he/she get punted after six games too?

if that scenario (hopefully not) plays out There will be a clamour again, fed by a realisation that fan-pressure can get this board to bend and sack early. 

Realisation? Whose realisation is that?

You don't seem to credit the new BoD with having made what is a tough decision of their own volition. Surely you don't have an(other) axe to grind?

Oh, and Rae wasn't punted after six games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Forget the names. So when the new manager comes in, and say we have a worse or similar set of results, should he/she get punted after six games too?

if that scenario (hopefully not) plays out There will be a clamour again, fed by a realisation that fan-pressure can get this board to bend and sack early. 

It wasn't just about no wins in six. It was a woeful brand of football. A formation that did not work. An intransigence to change things. An imbalanced squad. Bad decisions like letting Gordon go out on loan after never watching him play for us and not playing Goody when he was our best player at the time. No light at the end of the tunnel. All after 9 months not after six games. McManus has been in charge in 2 games and I have seen an improvement and been given some hope. Never had that under Rae.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TopCat said:

 


I don't pretend to be any expert on Dundee Utd, but it seems pretty well understood that Mixu relegated them with the 3rd biggest budget in the league last year. He spent a lot of money on ex EPL guys like Demel and Sinama Pongolle, signed the Japanese international goalkeeper.... and still couldn't even get them close to 11th.

Taking over a team who's bottom of the league despite having one of the biggest budgets... then getting them relegated. Doesn't exactly bode well does it?

 

Why don't you pretend? All you need is an ability to use Google. That's what one poster does to make it look as if he has the inside track on Buckie Thistle :whistle

Dundee United's squad recruitment last season after Mixu came in was insane - it was what you'd try and do in Football Manager, just signing guys who you've heard of or who have a load of caps. We wouldn't have to worry about that with whoever gets the job as we have bugger all money!

More talks planned with Ross apparently. Fully expect the new manager to be announced tomorrow afternoon when I'm on an eight hour flight.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/scotsol/homepage/sport/spl/stmirren/7243414/St-Mirren-set-to-hold-more-talks-with-Alloa-boss-Jack-Ross-today.html?CMP=spklr-_-Editorial-_-TWITTER-_-scotsunsport-_-20161004-_-Sport-_-607270478

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

If you sack someone after six games you make a rod for your own back. Rae did what Ross couldnt and turned his club's fortunes round last season, this season he won all bar one pre-season/league/challenge cup games, then got three draws & three losses.

does anyone else think the board were over hasty to ditch Rae? It has cost us financially as well as stability, and if the next incumbent has a similar or poorer return in the next 6-7 games the pressure will be on to sack again. It is the definition of madness!

Alex Rae wasn't punted purely because of the results in the first six games. He's alluded to that himself in the interviews he's given since.

The new board didn't see the management team as being the right men to deliver either the short or longer term strategy they have set out.

They, rightly, see the manager as being absolutely fundamental to the success of the football club and so have decided to bring in their own choice for that position.

It's hard to argue with that logic, but I'm sure you'll try and spin some negativity about it anyway!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, div said:

There was an update published for the fans on the whole process on Friday?

Not really sure what you're expecting fella?

The level of information/updates from the club surrounding the appointment has been pretty much unprecedented, as far as I can recall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Sonny said:

It wasn't just about no wins in six. It was a woeful brand of football. A formation that did not work. An intransigence to change things. An imbalanced squad. Bad decisions like letting Gordon go out on loan after never watching him play for us and not playing Goody when he was our best player at the time. No light at the end of the tunnel. All after 9 months not after six games. McManus has been in charge in 2 games and I have seen an improvement and been given some hope. Never had that under Rae.

Sorry what improvement?

we shipped four and surrendered the lead twice against a dire Dunfermline side, and managed one shot on target against Falkirk. 

What is telling is no one is willing to say that the will support the next manager if he gets the same or worse in six games as Rae did. That folks is our weakness, we still dont set out a philosophy for the future, and stick by it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...