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Yeah, to be honest I think that's more a flaw with the academy than it is with the ex manager. I know this idea of a single style of play and a rigid formation was part of Mark Wotte's national development plan, but it's got to be bonkers not to teach young players how to mix their styles of play. It should be obvious to everyone that you have to adjust your style of play depending on the opposition and even how much pressure you are being put under at any point in a match. Besides there isn't really a "right way" to play in football. The only right way is to score more goals than the opposition. 


Your last sentence was the flaw with the last manager.

If the quality if football is rubbish, results being poor equals time to go.

If the football is good and results are poor I'd argue a significantly larger number of fans would argue give it a bit more time and see how it goes.

As for your point about the right way to play...I feel (as always) you are splitting hairs. Most footballers at all levels can hoof the ball long and high. If you don't learn the requisite technical skills to play passing football you are unlikely to learn and as a coach of youth football I would imagine you agree (unless it doesn't suit your argument).

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17 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Yeah, to be honest I think that's more a flaw with the academy than it is with the ex manager. I know this idea of a single style of play and a rigid formation was part of Mark Wotte's national development plan, but it's got to be bonkers not to teach young players how to mix their styles of play. It should be obvious to everyone that you have to adjust your style of play depending on the opposition and even how much pressure you are being put under at any point in a match. Besides there isn't really a "right way" to play in football. The only right way is to score more goals than the opposition. 

Correct, it also leaves you screwed (Lennon style) once the opposition coaches suss out your preferred style. No plan B has to be one of the most commonly used idioms in football punditry today but for good reason, too many coaches have a "philosophy" which more often than not means they are stubborn and unable to react or adapt.

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3 minutes ago, Bart Simpson said:


Your last sentence was the flaw with the last manager.

If the quality if football is rubbish, results being poor equals time to go.

If the football is good and results are poor I'd argue a significantly larger number of fans would argue give it a bit more time and see how it goes.

As for your point about the right way to play...I feel (as always) you are splitting hairs. Most footballers at all levels can hoof the ball long and high. If you don't learn the requisite technical skills to play passing football you are unlikely to learn and as a coach of youth football I would imagine you agree (unless it doesn't suit your argument).

I'd argue that if the football is poor and the results are good most fans, certainly for a significant time, would be over the fecking moon.

Results are pretty much everything. 

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I think John Collins would need a good assistant and foil for his own personality, but is the kind of guy who would be keen to set a good vision for the club and try and raise standards and spot young players and develop them. He might be a bit abrasive so would need someone with good people skills as his assistant. If we are going down the youth development route I think he would be good at teaching young players good habits and what is requiried to get on the way to the top. Not sure how he would get on with players who don't share his attitude towards fitness, or if he would be interested in the job but it might be worth sounding him out if he is remotely interested.

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12 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I'd argue that if the football is poor and the results are good most fans, certainly for a significant time, would be over the fecking moon.

Results are pretty much everything. 

Remember that 1 season in the last 25 years where we had attacking football, lots of goals and great results? (Tom Hendrie's promotion season - although Danny Lennon's 2nd season almost made it 2 great seasons in 25 years).

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5 minutes ago, Bart Simpson said:


Your last sentence was the flaw with the last manager.

If the quality if football is rubbish, results being poor equals time to go.

If the football is good and results are poor I'd argue a significantly larger number of fans would argue give it a bit more time and see how it goes.

As for your point about the right way to play...I feel (as always) you are splitting hairs. Most footballers at all levels can hoof the ball long and high. If you don't learn the requisite technical skills to play passing football you are unlikely to learn and as a coach of youth football I would imagine you agree (unless it doesn't suit your argument).

Learning the technical skills should include learning how to play different styles of football.

It's not a case of splitting hairs, it's fundamental. Everyone in Scotland seems to think the ideal is to copy Barcelona and their tika-taka which incidentally Pep Guardiola said was "rubbish and utterly pointless". Yet Athletico Madrid were more successful than Barca last season playing a far more counter attacking style of football, defending deep and breaking quickly. Their style is far more risk adverse yet it gets them results. You could go back further. Tom Hendrie played a very direct attacking game using the pace of Junior Mendes and ensuring that his midfield got up the park quickly to support Yardley and Lavety while Tommy Turner would often sit very deep to break up the oppositions counter. Watching David Longwell talk in videos about teaching his kids to play the ball out from the back and to play the "right" way never sat right with me at all and when you get a manager of the first team who's looking to play a different style, it seems to have had the effect of breaking whatever confidence those kids coming through to the first team might have had. 

 

 

 

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poor football good results mean fans will give a,manager time to change like Gus. Poor football and I would argue that the results were also poor 10th/11th finish. Even when we won the first div can you honestly say you enjoyed the football. Fans turned up willing a change.

Lennon good football but inconsistent no plan B results again not great 8th/11th finish but fans did turn up to watch what was on offer hoping for some consistency

we are looking for a manager that can put a team on the park that looks they are working and a bit of flare with a few decent results

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52 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

Barry Ferguson is in his 3rd season at Clyde. They haven't won promotion - unlike Queens Park who are amateur. I know he's faced a number of challenges over there, but he's had plenty of money and loads of help off his mates. I wouldn't be touting him highly for the job. 

Ferguson gets touted for jobs because of his playing career. He is not a good manager at all, but because of who he is he gets mentioned on the radio and Clyde get extra focus when they're playing in the cups. He has done nothing in his managerial career to justify getting a Championship job.

Here's something no one seems to be considering - whose to say Gus would want the job if he was offered it? He might be perfectly happy at Queen's Park and he seems to be relatively secure. The players may be amateur but the managerial position is not. He'll be getting a reasonable wage, although I'm guessing not the laughable £50k I've seen mentioned from rival fans on P&B.

He'd also not have the benefit of a fresh start at Saints that someone like Hughes would have as he'd be coming to a club where a decent number of fans were quite happy to see him go and don't want him back so there'd be pressure on him pretty quickly, especially with our current situation. I know from his previous time he wasn't really fussed about the fans but it's slightly different given they now own the club.

If he does decide to take the job, hopefully he'll bring Queen's Park's Under Armour contract with him.

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3 hours ago, shanta said:

Probably be Gus or Yogi but why stick with the same old faces? We should be aiming for a manager who has plenty experience but isn't part of the old "Largs mafia". What about someone like Martin Rennie? Youngish, plenty experience abroad and seems to do well wherever he goes?

Why spoil it.

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5 hours ago, ulysses said:

Will not be Barry Smith, he's just got a job as a journo up in Dundee. There should be an option for 'Other' (his record is allegedly quite good but hard to find). 

Something tells me he'd give that up in a flash if he got offered a manager's job somewhere, especially ours. Not that I'd offer it to him.

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And he can multi-task. What's not to like.  Except that he's part of the young Largs Mafia :P

Rennie went on to study for a business degree at Glasgow Caledonian University. In his final year, he received a tryout for theCharlotte Eagles but suffered a cruciate ligament injury to his right knee. Returning to Scotland, Rennie continued to play for Scottish Junior Football Association teams Dunipaceand Bo'ness whilst working in sales and marketing for Blackbaud. With the money earned from his sales and marketing work, Rennie was able to personally pay for his SFA coaching course costs. Rennie quickly rose through the coaching ranks and attained his UEFA ‘A’ Licence becoming assistant manager at Rosyth F.C. at 26.

 

 

Edited by David Mc

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7 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

Frank Nuttall is an interesting one to appear on the McBookie list and at 6/1 too. He was last managing out in Kenya, won back to back titles whilst being unbeaten and has been all over the world from Africa, China, UAE  and Hibs and Rangers in various roles from fitness coach to advisor to manager. He was McLeish's assistant at Zamalek as well.

Someone has clearly asked for him specifically if McBookie have seen fit to place him on the list at such short odds.

To further stoke this, he was apparently with us under Gus as a Sports Scientist?

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7 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

He's odds on because that's where the money is going though, mate. He dropped from 4/1 to 6/4 last night at 11:30, nothing would have been happening at that time of night other than someone having a decent sized punt on him. Barry Ferguson was odds on last time because the record had touted him and everyone who was gambling went and lumped on him. 

Gus might end up the manager but believe me, the bookies know as much about it as you or I. To prove a point, I just stuck £20 (on a hunch) on that Frank Nuttall fella as it's an unusual one amongst the usual trash, so someone (hopefully someone ITK) has sounded him out on request or he'd never be on that list in a million years. Now watch what price he'll be in an hour cos a £20 stake went on him in such a niche market, he'll probably be about 4/1. The bookies are total shitebags.

Nuttall was on the list last time around - I think at that point he was either out of work in Kenya or having a dispute with his club. Was the fitness coach during Gus' time with the club (apologies if someone has already posted this).

Going off at a tangent but when we were looking for a manager last time around I was speaking to a guy for work who goes on charity trips to Kenya. One time he'd bumped into a guy he knew growing up who was now a football coach out there. Sure enough it was Frank Nuttall, who I said had been linked with our job. Funny how things work out.

5 hours ago, Julian Banjos said:

How about MacPherson's last stint at this level? Relegated with QotS? Anyone know the story of his tenure there?

I could go into some detail but I think pointing out he signed John Potter is all you need to know :lol:

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Just now, Stu said:

Nuttall was on the list last time around - I think at that point he was either out of work in Kenya or having a dispute with his club. Was the fitness coach during Gus' time with the club (apologies if someone has already posted this).

Going off at a tangent but when we were looking for a manager last time around I was speaking to a guy for work who goes on charity trips to Kenya. One time he'd bumped into a guy he knew growing up who was now a football coach out there. Sure enough it was Frank Nuttall, who I said had been linked with our job. Funny how things work out.

I could go into some detail but I think pointing out he signed John Potter is all you need to know :lol:

Just reading up on him, his record in Kenya was pretty damned good as is his CV in general. Took over a side who hadn't won the league in 19 years and took them to back to back titles, losing once in 48 league games.

He's a bit of a globetrotter as well but aren't we always going on about hiring managers who don't have contacts within the game? This guy has been there at England u17-u21 level, Middlesborough, Bristol City and on three different continents doing his thing quietly for the best part of a decade now.

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3 minutes ago, Stu said:

Ferguson gets touted for jobs because of his playing career. He is not a good manager at all, but because of who he is he gets mentioned on the radio and Clyde get extra focus when they're playing in the cups. He has done nothing in his managerial career to justify getting a Championship job.

Here's something no one seems to be considering - whose to say Gus would want the job if he was offered it? He might be perfectly happy at Queen's Park and he seems to be relatively secure. The players may be amateur but the managerial position is not. He'll be getting a reasonable wage, although I'm guessing not the laughable £50k I've seen mentioned from rival fans on P&B.

He'd also not have the benefit of a fresh start at Saints that someone like Hughes would have as he'd be coming to a club where a decent number of fans were quite happy to see him go and don't want him back so there'd be pressure on him pretty quickly, especially with our current situation. I know from his previous time he wasn't really fussed about the fans but it's slightly different given they now own the club.

If he does decide to take the job, hopefully he'll bring Queen's Park's Under Armour contract with him.

Yeah I doubt he's on £50k but I'd agree with you on the Queens Park job. IIRC Gardner Speirs and Billy Stark were full time managers at the club. Their duties were more than just running the first team. I would have thought MacPherson would have been the same but I spotted a news article from last year claiming he was looking to get "back into" full time football although it had to be "the right offer". He was also claiming that he had rejected a number of offers to stay at Queens Park. 

I've been along to watch the Queens play a few times under MacPherson and they were what I would have expected them to be. They weren't packed full of flair, a bit stuffy, but solid enough. Again IIRC it was Gardner Speirs that had Andrew Robertson, Shankland, Connelly and Spittal in his squad and not MacPherson but I'd need to check that. My concern about a guy like MacPherson would be that he's had a chance at St Mirren and he didn't have the best of records in developing young talent but as I said previously maybe that was because the old board were reticent to give him any influence over the work being done at the Academy by David Longwell. 

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Just to throw a name out there that haven't been spoken about yet, what about Brian McClair? He's left his post as Performance Director of the SFA, as far as I can make out he's unemployed, and he's quite highly thought of within the game as a talented coach and organiser. The kind of person you might look at to put a lot of work in place to link up all the disparate parts of the club right now. Working with Ricky Sbragia the two enjoyed quite a bit of success with youth development at Manchester United.   

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A pretty underwhelming list going by the bookies list.
Not averse to a return from Gus.
Pressley consistently linked with jobs since he left Fleetwood, now I know he's a bellend but he might be an interesting choice.
Worked very well with youth players at Falkirk.

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Not enthused by the same old names getting bandied about time and time again. Like there is no depth in talent in Scottish footballers at the moment, there is no depth in decent managers. We keep seeing the same, tired names mentioned for every job going.

Yogi Hughes, it's not a coincidence he is not managing a team just now. Pish Pish Pish.

Coming in from way way left field is Andy Roddie. He is managing highland league side Colony Park, they won their division last season, whole season undefeated and won 19 of 22 league games. Cutting his managerial teeth in the highland league might be worth considering if he could make the step up.

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Learning the technical skills should include learning how to play different styles of football.

It's not a case of splitting hairs, it's fundamental. Everyone in Scotland seems to think the ideal is to copy Barcelona and their tika-taka which incidentally Pep Guardiola said was "rubbish and utterly pointless". Yet Athletico Madrid were more successful than Barca last season playing a far more counter attacking style of football, defending deep and breaking quickly. Their style is far more risk adverse yet it gets them results. You could go back further. Tom Hendrie played a very direct attacking game using the pace of Junior Mendes and ensuring that his midfield got up the park quickly to support Yardley and Lavety while Tommy Turner would often sit very deep to break up the oppositions counter. Watching David Longwell talk in videos about teaching his kids to play the ball out from the back and to play the "right" way never sat right with me at all and when you get a manager of the first team who's looking to play a different style, it seems to have had the effect of breaking whatever confidence those kids coming through to the first team might have had. 

 

 

 


It is though and as a coach of youth football Stuart I know that you are aware that passing football and the technical skills involved in being calm under pressure with the ball should be the starting point for teaching young kids. From that starting point you can play whatever style you wish. It is a lot harder to do things the other way around. That technical ability is where we lag behind the Spanish...

My point about the discord between the first team and the youth set up is highlighted as you say with the apparent loss of confidence of young players coming through. You use that point to suit your own prerogative rather than accepting it for what it was...merely pointing out that Rae was on a hiding to nothing, cutting against the grain and not delivering on results. With no positives of prospects developing under his tenure there is now change is in the air.

I don't disagree with you about the variety of styles of play and the need to be able to adapt to them, but Rae hardly covered himself in glory with plan B, C or D. That said he salvaged a poor team last season but results this year have not followed...

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1 minute ago, Bart Simpson said:


It is though and as a coach of youth football Stuart I know that you are aware that passing football and the technical skills involved in being calm under pressure with the ball should be the starting point for teaching young kids. From that starting point you can play whatever style you wish. It is a lot harder to do things the other way around. That technical ability is where we lag behind the Spanish...

My point about the discord between the first team and the youth set up is highlighted as you say with the apparent loss of confidence of young players coming through. You use that point to suit your own prerogative rather than accepting it for what it was...merely pointing out that Rae was on a hiding to nothing, cutting against the grain and not delivering on results. With no positives of prospects developing under his tenure there is now change is in the air.

I don't disagree with you about the variety of styles of play and the need to be able to adapt to them, but Rae hardly covered himself in glory with plan B, C or D. That said he salvaged a poor team last season but results this year have not followed...

Fair enough. I think I agree with most of that. Certainly the need for better skills was always apparent, especially with the youngest age groups. I do think though that we are all guilty of ignoring the tactical side of the game too - perhaps because that's more difficult to teach a kid than how to pass a ball 5 yards. Game intelligence is something players should have by the time they are 15 and 16 but I don't see much evidence of it amongst kids that break through at St Mirren. 

 

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