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Getting Close To £30 Admission Fee At St Mirren Park.


shull

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4 hours ago, The Original 59er said:

Shull has always been a fan of lower ticket prices and to an extent he has a point.

Admittedly this is last year's figures but still relevant to the discussion as they froze their ticket prices for this year- These are Burnley's ticket prices across the stadium and this was for a team playing in the English Premier League at a good level:

   
ADULT
David Fishwick Stand £30
Jimmy McIlroy Lower £30
Jimmy McIlroy Upper (Family area) £35
James Hargreaves Lower £30
James Hargreaves Upper (Wings) £35
James Hargreaves Upper (Centre) £40
Bob Lord Stand £40
SENIOR CITIZENS
David Fishwick Stand £20
Jimmy McIlroy Lower £20
Jimmy McIlroy Upper £25
James Hargreaves Lower £20
James Hargreaves Upper (Wings) £20
James Hargreaves Upper (Centre) £25
Bob Lord Stand £25
UNDER 22
David Fishwick Stand £20
Jimmy McIlroy Lower £20
Jimmy McIlroy Upper £25
James Hargreaves Lower £20
James Hargreaves Upper (Wings) £20
James Hargreaves Upper (Centre) £25
Bob Lord Stand £25
UNDER 18
David Fishwick Stand £15
Jimmy McIlroy Lower £15
Jimmy McIlroy Upper * £15
James Hargreaves Lower £15
James Hargreaves Upper (Wings) £15
James Hargreaves Upper (Centre) £20
Bob Lord Stand £20
UNDER 12
Jimmy McIlroy Upper (Family) * £10*

 So are you comparing apples with apples? - not exactly - maybe Pink Ladies with Cookers, but hardly the same thing. I think however you might just have to accept that you got slightly better footballing skills on offer at Turf Moor.

Whether you would have got quite the same banter is another matter................................

If you look at the sponsorship money in the English Leagues you could argue the overcharge far more than their Scottish counterparts. They really could let their fans in for nothing and still be in a different stratosphere from our teams.

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Desmond White,  past Chairman of Celtic called it correctly when he pointed out that TV would change the nature of the game. At the time people thought that he was worried about Celtic having smaller crowds if games were televised but his vision went much further.  From then onwards admission prices started to rise and crowds fell away, not for the big two in Glasgow but for other clubs. 

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On Wednesday, November 28, 2018 at 5:24 PM, The Original 59er said:

I get your principle, but your approach is risible and if you perhaps attached a slight pinch of realism then you might get a few more supporting your principle.

I agree that pricing could be flattened out across the various parts of the stadium with maybe a fractional difference between good and not so good seats, but £10 & £5 for your afternoon's entertainment is a bit on the low side.

There was a report in 2011 stating:

In 1989 the cheapest price for a ticket to watch Manchester United cost £3.50 which, with inflation, should cost £6.20. In fact the least fans can expect to pay is £28.

The picture is worse at Anfield where tickets were £4 and now the minimum is £45 - a rise of 1,025 per cent.

Yes the income from the TV companies is vast and yes they could do an awful lot more for the actual fan who turns up, but if you take as an example a game of golf, if you turned up at a course you would be very lucky to play a reasonable course for under £25 which will give you a theoretical 4 hours of entertainment. Or you could get tickets for your favourite band, - that is stratospheric compared to a football match and that might cost you £80+ for your 4 hours entertainment.

So finding a balance is what is needed. :hammer

 

 

Supply and demand.:huh:

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2 hours ago, Jack the lad said:

Supply and demand.:huh:

Only to an extent................ if you look at most games in England there are spaces, even for Manchester City who play a really great brand of football. 

Yes at Tottenham, Arsenal and Manchester Utd, most games are fully subscribed, but there is a tendency to charge what you like and the punters will pay. Shull's point is well made, the clubs in England at both the Premier level and the Championship get unbelievable income from the TV sources, they don't need to charge £60/70/80 for a ticket, yet they do and what's more the example I have given above suggests they are milking it, by vastly increasing the % away beyond inflation or cost of living indexes. 

The payments from the fans are a mere drop in the ocean. The clubs will argue that to get the best players they have to play the best prices. I might argue the point that at the very top Spain might have the best players, but across the league you might have to accept that the English Premiership is stronger, but do they have to charge their fans so much to see a game? As has been reported recently quite a number pay only the  minimum wage, not a living wage to their cleaners - that's just plainly immoral.

So yes, I will accept to an extent that supply and demand has an effect, but I would argue that demand is a fickle thing and it wouldn't take much to see it all come crashing down.

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What about St Mirren and the other 39 Clubs getting together and all slashing prices to a Tenner and under from say the start of the 2021/2022 Season, giving Clubs time to adjust ? 

Give the fans a fair deal all the time, not just one off special offers while ripping everybody off most of the Season. 

Don't need SMISA. Fans can purchase their own tickets if they are correctly priced. 

Let SMISA save some fecking money for a rainy day. 

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8 minutes ago, MenstrieSaint said:

What about Smisa buying 20 family season tickets behind the goal ( think they are £235 each ) , and selling them to Saints fans at £15 a game ,and using the money as it accumulates to buy further season tickets.

That would be an outlay of £4700. With an income of £300 a week at best.  You’d need to flog all 20 EVERY home game for 15/16 weeks before break even...

someone would have to organise/control this... for free, presumably?

But even more questionable is how SMFC would react to such a move.  Is that not in danger of undercutting the club’s prices, when it’s still trying to be a money-making enterprise?

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12 minutes ago, MenstrieSaint said:

What about Smisa buying 20 family season tickets behind the goal ( think they are £235 each ) , and selling them to Saints fans at £15 a game ,and using the money as it accumulates to buy further season tickets.

I also raised a suggestion that a fund be established by donation from supporters to be used to enable older people to be given season tickets if they found price a barrier to attending games.  This could be administered by, for example,  the fans council.  I was willing to donate towards this and still would.  A number of older people who previously attended games might then be able to return. 

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50 minutes ago, shull said:

What about St Mirren and the other 39 Clubs getting together and all slashing prices to a Tenner and under from say the start of the 2021/2022 Season, giving Clubs time to adjust ? 

Give the fans a fair deal all the time, not just one off special offers while ripping everybody off most of the Season. 

Don't need SMISA. Fans can purchase their own tickets if they are correctly priced. 

Let SMISA save some fecking money for a rainy day. 

FFS. You're like a broken record. There is no way teams would survive as they are with that proposal. And you know it.

It would lead to an even poorer product which people would be turned off from resulting in even less revenue. Like it or not professional football clubs in this country need to maintain at least the status quo.

The prices at the moment obviously are sustainable as is shown by footfall at games staying steady or, in some cases, slightly up.

Just because you would be happy with part time or even amateur football doesn't mean the rest of us need to suffer that, or your constant moaning.

Because you say something ad nausea doesn't mean it's the sensible thing to do.

IF you are determined to watch inferior football at reduced prices there are plenty of other options other than ranting on a forum that, in the main, disagrees with your ridiculous pricing demand as they know what it would lead to.

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34 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

FFS. You're like a broken record. There is no way teams would survive as they are with that proposal. And you know it.

It would lead to an even poorer product which people would be turned off from resulting in even less revenue. Like it or not professional football clubs in this country need to maintain at least the status quo.

The prices at the moment obviously are sustainable as is shown by footfall at games staying steady or, in some cases, slightly up.

Just because you would be happy with part time or even amateur football doesn't mean the rest of us need to suffer that, or your constant moaning.

Because you say something ad nausea doesn't mean it's the sensible thing to do.

IF you are determined to watch inferior football at reduced prices there are plenty of other options other than ranting on a forum that, in the main, disagrees with your ridiculous pricing demand as they know what it would lead to.

Sometimes it needs to be explained many times to a few on here as you can see from a Topic on the Matchday Threads. 

The many Scottish football players who are playing presently and are churning out shite skills will still be here in 3 years time and still churning out shite. 

Only difference will they will be getting paid what they deserve (part time). They should have a full time job outwith football so they will probably be better off. 

And most importantly, the fans will get in for a tenner or less and not get ripped off while supporting crap. 

Most Scottish players will stay here as they are too pish to get money from any other Country. 

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5 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

FFS. You're like a broken record. There is no way teams would survive as they are with that proposal. And you know it.

It would lead to an even poorer product which people would be turned off from resulting in even less revenue. Like it or not professional football clubs in this country need to maintain at least the status quo.

The prices at the moment obviously are sustainable as is shown by footfall at games staying steady or, in some cases, slightly up.

Just because you would be happy with part time or even amateur football doesn't mean the rest of us need to suffer that, or your constant moaning.

Because you say something ad nausea doesn't mean it's the sensible thing to do.

IF you are determined to watch inferior football at reduced prices there are plenty of other options other than ranting on a forum that, in the main, disagrees with your ridiculous pricing demand as they know what it would lead to.

I do get Shull's point to a degree, BUT he is wrong in respect of expecting something for nothing (or very little as he suggests)!

Scottish football, other than the big two, need to be run on a tight ship which if you reduced the price across the board to £10 would be the ruination of most if not all. Shull is on record as saying that all Scottish teams should go part time and get rid of Celtic & Rangers to some unknown body and then all would be on a similar playing field. - Totally unrealistic and nonsensical but the point he makes on pricing as it reaches £30 for a ticket is not daft. Currently it is: Adults - £23, Over 65s/Registered disabled and full-time students* - £14,  12-17 years old - £14,
Under 12s - £12. Maybe for an Old Firm game it creeps up towards £30, but we're not quite there yet.

The quality we get for our £23 is generally poor and should really be compared to the third tier of English football at best. Maybe one or two teams might compete in the Championship, but not many.

If you take Walsall as an example their prices are much the same as ours but increase them for the visit of Bristol Rovers, Coventry, Portsmouth, Shrewsbury and Sunderland.  So you might say that we should stick roughly where we are, but this of course would utterly defeat Shull's argument. He might say that the English system filters down the TV cash so Walsall are out of touch, but in reality I don't think they are and given we want and demand (!) the best team on the field, we are never ever going to drop down to his dreamt of position of £10. 

It's a question of whether you believe prices have jumped up beyond inflation rates or have crept in touch with inflation.

Here is an example of pricing:

Arsenal Home Game 1974 priced at £1.60 then - now that would be worth £15.85 with inflation

Champions League Final 1978 priced at £2.50 then - now that would be £13.63 with inflation

Man Utd Vs Leeds Utd in 1976 priced £0.70 - now that would be £4.79 with inflation

Football league cup final 1972 priced £0.60 - Now that would be £7.52 with inflation

and these are just a few examples I could give you more.

 

Yes conditions at the stadiums have improved dramatically, yes you are comparing two entirely different standards of venues, but the product is still the same - it's football and it is exciting to watch if you are a fan. So Yes I get Shull's point :o but it's finding a balance.

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2 hours ago, antrin said:

That would be an outlay of £4700. With an income of £300 a week at best.  You’d need to flog all 20 EVERY home game for 15/16 weeks before break even...

someone would have to organise/control this... for free, presumably?

But even more questionable is how SMFC would react to such a move.  Is that not in danger of undercutting the club’s prices, when it’s still trying to be a money-making enterprise?

So has the potential to get a new season ticket each week , is better than I thought ,  I honestly don't think we would be undercutting Saints prices ( Probably the same price ) . 

We would be highlighting what good value watching St Mirren is for a  family and also encouraging people to watch St Mirren . 

Any profits would go back into buying family tickets .

I,m sure fans / club could easily manage this .

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21 minutes ago, The Original 59er said:

I do get Shull's point to a degree, BUT he is wrong in respect of expecting something for nothing (or very little as he suggests)!

Scottish football, other than the big two, need to be run on a tight ship which if you reduced the price across the board to £10 would be the ruination of most if not all. Shull is on record as saying that all Scottish teams should go part time and get rid of Celtic & Rangers to some unknown body and then all would be on a similar playing field. - Totally unrealistic and nonsensical but the point he makes on pricing as it reaches £30 for a ticket is not daft. Currently it is: Adults - £23, Over 65s/Registered disabled and full-time students* - £14,  12-17 years old - £14,
Under 12s - £12. Maybe for an Old Firm game it creeps up towards £30, but we're not quite there yet.

The quality we get for our £23 is generally poor and should really be compared to the third tier of English football at best. Maybe one or two teams might compete in the Championship, but not many.

If you take Walsall as an example their prices are much the same as ours but increase them for the visit of Bristol Rovers, Coventry, Portsmouth, Shrewsbury and Sunderland.  So you might say that we should stick roughly where we are, but this of course would utterly defeat Shull's argument. He might say that the English system filters down the TV cash so Walsall are out of touch, but in reality I don't think they are and given we want and demand (!) the best team on the field, we are never ever going to drop down to his dreamt of position of £10. 

It's a question of whether you believe prices have jumped up beyond inflation rates or have crept in touch with inflation.

Here is an example of pricing:

Arsenal Home Game 1974 priced at £1.60 then - now that would be worth £15.85 with inflation

Champions League Final 1978 priced at £2.50 then - now that would be £13.63 with inflation

Man Utd Vs Leeds Utd in 1976 priced £0.70 - now that would be £4.79 with inflation

Football league cup final 1972 priced £0.60 - Now that would be £7.52 with inflation

and these are just a few examples I could give you more.

 

Yes conditions at the stadiums have improved dramatically, yes you are comparing two entirely different standards of venues, but the product is still the same - it's football and it is exciting to watch if you are a fan. So Yes I get Shull's point :o but it's finding a balance.

Walsall have turnover nudging £6m our latest accounts showed turnover of £2.85m ! They are in an altogether different stratosphere financially yet can still charge something similar to us. They are also bound by a 60% wages to turnover max FFP ruling hence wages aren't that dissimilar (reported to average just over 1k per week). There is absolutely no comparison in structure between us and Walsall apart from attendance !

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5 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Walsall have turnover nudging £6m our latest accounts showed turnover of £2.85m ! They are in an altogether different stratosphere financially yet can still charge something similar to us. They are also bound by a 60% wages to turnover max FFP ruling hence wages aren't that dissimilar (reported to average just over 1k per week). There is absolutely no comparison in structure between us and Walsall apart from attendance !

I used them as a middle of the league type team. If you take Fleetwood Town as an example again the prices are much in the same area and for Wimbedon they are higher and Scunthorpe they are lower but not so different to make a big song and dance over it.

The point is, and demonstrated in my last post, football costs for the punter have risen much more than inflation since 1970, it's a question whether you think the vastly improved facilities justify the prices being charged?

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39 minutes ago, MenstrieSaint said:

So has the potential to get a new season ticket each week , is better than I thought ,  I honestly don't think we would be undercutting Saints prices ( Probably the same price ) . 

We would be highlighting what good value watching St Mirren is for a  family and also encouraging people to watch St Mirren . 

Any profits would go back into buying family tickets .

I,m sure fans / club could easily manage this .

I'm genuinely all-for any scheme that helps to recruit the next generation of  fans, but maybe I've mistakenly led you astray.

 I said, "You’d need to flog all 20 family tickets EVERY home game for 15/16 weeks before break even", should have read, "You’d need to flog all 20 EVERY home game for 15/16 Home games before break even".  That's a long run in till 'profits' start flowing in. (And I'm ignoring any potential interest on the £5k sitting in an account somewhere.)

I may also have misunderstood you.  It looks to me that you want SMISA to invest nearly £5k  at the start of a season, and yet that money wouldn't generate any income (even if it's a complete sell-out)  till nearly 50% of the way through the season. 

All the best!!  It could work.  :)

But I'm a Buddie - a natural born pessimist.

 

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28 minutes ago, The Original 59er said:

I used them as a middle of the league type team. If you take Fleetwood Town as an example again the prices are much in the same area and for Wimbedon they are higher and Scunthorpe they are lower but not so different to make a big song and dance over it.

The point is, and demonstrated in my last post, football costs for the punter have risen much more than inflation since 1970, it's a question whether you think the vastly improved facilities justify the prices being charged?

The inflation point is very valid point I am making is that they are able to generate over double the turnover charging similar prices on similar crowds. The tv / prize money even at their level is eye watering by comparison. If Walsall were to win their equivalent of our Irn Bru diddy cup, they would earn more than double what a club would get for winning the Scottish cup (prize and tv cash). You could argue that Walsall are only charging what they are at the gate due to revenue from other sources, it's almost subsidised.

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3 hours ago, antrin said:

I'm genuinely all-for any scheme that helps to recruit the next generation of  fans, but maybe I've mistakenly led you astray.

 I said, "You’d need to flog all 20 family tickets EVERY home game for 15/16 weeks before break even", should have read, "You’d need to flog all 20 EVERY home game for 15/16 Home games before break even".  That's a long run in till 'profits' start flowing in. (And I'm ignoring any potential interest on the £5k sitting in an account somewhere.)

I may also have misunderstood you.  It looks to me that you want SMISA to invest nearly £5k  at the start of a season, and yet that money wouldn't generate any income (even if it's a complete sell-out)  till nearly 50% of the way through the season. 

All the best!!  It could work.  :)

But I'm a Buddie - a natural born pessimist.

 

Not really about making money or breaking even , just about getting new fans on board and making tickets a wee bit cheaper . Would make sense to use monies from sales to pay for the following seasons 20 tickets . Also SMISA giving to the club and getting something back . I'm sure there's a workable plan somewhere there .

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15 minutes ago, MenstrieSaint said:

Not really about making money or breaking even , just about getting new fans on board and making tickets a wee bit cheaper . Would make sense to use monies from sales to pay for the following seasons 20 tickets . Also SMISA giving to the club and getting something back . I'm sure there's a workable plan somewhere there .

I am all for finding ways of widening the number of people who come to watch the team, be that the young or the elderly. 

Again.. Last year on here I proposed starting a fund to which people and organisations could donate where the monies raised would be used to cover the cost of people coming to watch the team e.g. Season Tickets / Half Season Tickets open the school age and OAP's. 

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50 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

I am all for finding ways of widening the number of people who come to watch the team, be that the young or the elderly. 

Again.. Last year on here I proposed starting a fund to which people and organisations could donate where the monies raised would be used to cover the cost of people coming to watch the team e.g. Season Tickets / Half Season Tickets open the school age and OAP's. 

It's a sound idea Ricky , maybe targeting guys who work hard , work some weekends , and wants to do something affordable with the kids at the weekend . 

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7 hours ago, shull said:

Sometimes it needs to be explained many times to a few on here as you can see from a Topic on the Matchday Threads. 

The many Scottish football players who are playing presently and are churning out shite skills will still be here in 3 years time and still churning out shite. 

Only difference will they will be getting paid what they deserve (part time). They should have a full time job outwith football so they will probably be better off. 

And most importantly, the fans will get in for a tenner or less and not get ripped off while supporting crap. 

Most Scottish players will stay here as they are too pish to get money from any other Country. 

A lot of surmising there.

The clubs would naturally shrink and become equivalent to junior football clubs so why don't you just start supporting them.

So let me surmise.

The very fact you say "most" means that we would obviously end up with an inferior product due to the fact those good enough who are plying their trade here would leave. We would have a constant drain of good players departing for pastures new. This in turn would mean the clubs would shrink and more supporters would find better things to do on a football day. There would be a vicious circle and we would end up with most clubs losing their grounds and being forced to downsize even more and so on and so on.

ETA. That's not even considering the loss of advertising and sponsorship which would be decimated.

And even this is dependent on the two arse cheeks getting a gig elsewhere which, let's face it, is highly unlikely.

I'm not advocating price rises but there is no way Scottish football could survive in your fantasy world.

Finally.

It is supply and demand. Enough people feel it worthwhile paying the prices as they are or they wouldn't pay it. 

I am aware of only one person advocating those drastic cuts in entry fee and you have repeated your deranged idea often enough to convert those who could be yet I have seen no one else agree with the ludicrous admission structure, even if some think the prices are slightly high. The masses may be asses but you are so alone in your stance that you should start to consider it is NOT everyone else who is mad.

 

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2 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

A lot of surmising there.

The clubs would naturally shrink and become equivalent to junior football clubs so why don't you just start supporting them.

So let me surmise.

The very fact you say "most" means that we would obviously end up with an inferior product due to the fact those good enough who are plying their trade here would leave. We would have a constant drain of good players departing for pastures new. This in turn would mean the clubs would shrink and more supporters would find better things to do on a football day. There would be a vicious circle and we would end up with most clubs losing their grounds and being forced to downsize even more and so on and so on.

And even this is dependent on the two arse cheeks getting a gig elsewhere which, let's face it, is highly unlikely.

I'm not advocating price rises but there is no way Scottish football could survive in your fantasy world.

Finally.

It is supply and demand. Enough people feel it worthwhile paying the prices as they are or they wouldn't pay it. 

I am aware of only one person advocating those drastic cuts in entry fee and you have repeated your deranged idea often enough to convert those who could be yet I have seen no one else agree with the ludicrous admission structure, even if some think the prices are slightly high. The masses may be asses but you are so alone in your stance that you should start to consider it is NOT everyone else who is mad.

 

Another one who can't read and comprehend anything.

You must skim my Posts at a furious pace.

I support St Mirren no matter where or what they are playing in .

Yes, I am alone and indeed the rest must be asses.

Deranged ? :blink:

See ye :byebye

 

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1 hour ago, shull said:

Another one who can't read and comprehend anything.

You must skim my Posts at a furious pace.

I support St Mirren no matter where or what they are playing in .

Yes, I am alone and indeed the rest must be asses.

Deranged ? :blink:

See ye :byebye

 

Really?

As Pricky would ask.

Are you going to the HIbs' game?

Deranged?

Certainly!

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18 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

Really?

As Pricky would ask.

Are you going to the HIbs' game?

Deranged?

Certainly!

Seen this routine before.

Don't turn into Rick

Another potential rank puller.

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