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DUFC V Saints Xmas eve

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20 hours ago, insaintee said:

The questions we needs to ask are these;-

Would  we be in a better position if we had stuck with Rae? 

IMHO No, probably worse. 

Would we be in a better position if we had appointed Gus? (this one just for TC)

IMHO No, after all, it's not as if he's never taken a team down at this level is it.

What should Ross do differently?

IMHO Punt Hutton, Clarkson, Shankland, Hardy, Webster, Walsh,  Two new strikers and two new centre halves please Santa.  Some will be looking for a new defensive midfielder, but I think this is no longer top priority. Wouldn't say no if we can identify a decent one but please Santa NOT Andy Murdoch.

The question about "would we be in a better position had we stuck with Rae" is an intresting one. To sack a manager after only six games, means, you would assume that the replacement is going to be better?

Rae's freely discussed opinion was that we didn't have good enough footballers to play a possesion game, and if you look at the catalogue of cockups we have conceeded goals from this season you can see his point. The postion we were in when Rae was sacked was a much stronger one than we are in now!

we were not detached, we were picking up points, we could have won some of those six games. Now we have been split fron the herd, detached and in the relegation spot. There is lots of talk about having improved, but in reality it is thevteams around us who have improved, and continue to beat or take points from us.

what we need to do is batter the opposition each week, by a big goal tally would be nice, but realistically we need to batter teams to get points, win ugly, shell it if need be, oh what we would give to have a Goodwin having the opposition squealing. 

On or present form and point collection we will most likely be relegated by Easter, so please if someone can explain to me how we are improved, and what Ross has achieved i am all ears? Jack Ross is on track to relegate his second club in a year, why did the board sack a "fighter" for Ross? That is what is needed now, as another dismal relegation will decimate the club many of us have invested in.

we go into the Morton game hoping we can extend our home unbeaten run against them, if we dont it is difficult to see where the points will come from to stay in a largely part time league, it will be then up to the board to explain why they sacked a manager after six games, paid the compensation to him and the new manager they chose, that saw us relegated?

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10 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

The question about "would we be in a better position had we stuck with Rae" is an intresting one. To sack a manager after only six games, means, you would assume that the replacement is going to be better?

Rae's freely discussed opinion was that we didn't have good enough footballers to play a possesion game, and if you look at the catalogue of cockups we have conceeded goals from this season you can see his point. The postion we were in when Rae was sacked was a much stronger one than we are in now!

we were not detached, we were picking up points, we could have won some of those six games. Now we have been split fron the herd, detached and in the relegation spot. There is lots of talk about having improved, but in reality it is thevteams around us who have improved, and continue to beat or take points from us.

what we need to do is batter the opposition each week, by a big goal tally would be nice, but realistically we need to batter teams to get points, win ugly, shell it if need be, oh what we would give to have a Goodwin having the opposition squealing. 

On or present form and point collection we will most likely be relegated by Easter, so please if someone can explain to me how we are improved, and what Ross has achieved i am all ears? Jack Ross is on track to relegate his second club in a year, why did the board sack a "fighter" for Ross? That is what is needed now, as another dismal relegation will decimate the club many of us have invested in.

we go into the Morton game hoping we can extend our home unbeaten run against them, if we dont it is difficult to see where the points will come from to stay in a largely part time league, it will be then up to the board to explain why they sacked a manager after six games, paid the compensation to him and the new manager they chose, that saw us relegated?

While he did only get six league games, it was quite clear that he had us on a downward trajectory. We were not great last season under his control and were markedly worse. Most alarmingly he seemed to have lost any interest in St Mirren, not entirely surprising. He was clearly more interested in media work and when the club said the termination was by mutual consent, this time I actually believe it. He clearly wanted to go. I think had he stayed we would have been in the same position or worse. 

As you rightly point out, the game is about results not performance. But you get results by playing to your strengths. Our strengths are not aimless punts up to disinterested old firm colts who think they are too good to be here. 

Also quite clearly Rae could not organise the defence and while we're not perfect there now, we  are definitely better. 

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2 minutes ago, insaintee said:

While he did only get six league games, it was quite clear that he had us on a downward trajectory. We were not great last season under his control and were markedly worse. Most alarmingly he seemed to have lost any interest in St Mirren, not entirely surprising. He was clearly more interested in media work and when the club said the termination was by mutual consent, this time I actually believe it. He clearly wanted to go. I think had he stayed we would have been in the same position or worse. 

As you rightly point out, the game is about results not performance. But you get results by playing to your strengths. Our strengths are not aimless punts up to disinterested old firm colts who think they are too good to be here. 

Also quite clearly Rae could not organise the defence and while we're not perfect there now, we  are definitely better. 

Something we will have to agree to disagree on, imho if we were now "better" we would be higher up the table beating the teams nearest us. And Rae was definetly sacked, GS said so, although i am sure they were happy to mutually agree to getting their contracts paid up in full. More money down the swanny.

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1 minute ago, FTOF said:

Anyone who thinks Rae was sacked after only six games in charge needs to learn to do addition somewhat better.

Either that or they've conveniently forgotten about the existence of several months earlier in the year.

He was sacked after six league games this season, if you go back to the start of the year when he galvanised us and lifted us up the table, yes he had half that season give or take? Ross is doing to us what he did to Alloa, detaching us and making us vulnerable. We need a real pig in charge to drive us on.

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49 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

He was sacked after six league games this season, if you go back to the start of the year when he galvanised us and lifted us up the table, yes he had half that season give or take? Ross is doing to us what he did to Alloa, detaching us and making us vulnerable. We need a real pig in charge to drive us on.

We had a  "real pig" in charge, he totally failed to drive us on. You could expect a team put out by Rae to be agricultural, but we weren't even that. We were badly organised, lacked fight and and looked unfit. Rae was not even doing the basics that were able to pull us out of relegation last season. 

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Farrell was on Radio Scotland a few weeks ago and admitted that they'd tried everything to get the players going but nothing was working.

I don't expect that to stop a few banging on about Alex Rae and using him to criticise Jack 'he wasn't my choice for the job' Ross.

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9 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

. We need a real pig in charge to drive us on.

That style of management works less and less in the modern game.  Also the 'pig' style is generally short termist in its outlook and we need to look long term, like it or not (and obviously you don't) Ross is likely to be here for a while.:)

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4 hours ago, scottd said:

Strange that Ross haters have came out of hiding, the last couple of weeks must have been hard for them.

The vast majority, on this forum anyway, are behind Ross. Overall he's had great support, something few of our recent managers have not been lucky enough to rely on. Of course there's a few on here who are relentless in "subtly" criticising Ross and there's a few who are concerned, which I happen to be, only down to our position as relegation will be very serious for the club.

Edited by faraway saint

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Thought we played well today. Unlucky not to get a point. Stevie Mallan was the best player on the pitch, in my opinion. What a prospect McAllister is too.


I agree we played well against United and we were definitely worth a point. I'm actually feeling positive about staying up this season I really do feel we are currently looking a better team than the 4 teams above us.

Can't agree with the Mallan comment - quite the opposite really. Thought he was the worst Saints player by a mile, consistently giving the ball away, trying Hollywood passes and playing aimless balls forward. He certainly has ability but he hasn't done anything this season to warrant starting every game. Needs to toughen up and work a lot harder for the team if he's going to fulfil his potential.

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5 hours ago, faraway saint said:

The vast majority, on this forum anyway, are behind Ross. Overall he's had great support, something few of our recent managers have not been lucky enough to rely on. Of course there's a few on here who are relentless in "subtly" criticising Ross and there's a few who are concerned, which I happen to be, only down to our position as relegation will be very serious for the club.

Anyone I know who goes to watch on a regular basis is generally positive about the changes he's made and the way we are playing. However you're correct to be concerned. We need to go on a wee winning run starting on Hogmanay. If we go down we could be right in the sh*tter. 

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7 minutes ago, Kendo said:

Anyone I know who goes to watch on a regular basis is generally positive about the changes he's made and the way we are playing. However you're correct to be concerned. We need to go on a wee winning run starting on Hogmanay. If we go down we could be right in the sh*tter. 

Can't you see a wee flaw in your argument with supporter of the year....    1974 :whistle

 

ETA  Image result for fishing clipart

 

Edited by insaintee

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I agree we played well against United and we were definitely worth a point. I'm actually feeling positive about staying up this season I really do feel we are currently looking a better team than the 4 teams above us.

Can't agree with the Mallan comment - quite the opposite really. Thought he was the worst Saints player by a mile, consistently giving the ball away, trying Hollywood passes and playing aimless balls forward. He certainly has ability but he hasn't done anything this season to warrant starting every game. Needs to toughen up and work a lot harder for the team if he's going to fulfil his potential.

I agree that we're playing well and was gutted we got nothing from the game. Was there with my mate who was up and is a big Wolves fan. He was raving about McAllister and we both thought Mallan had an excellent game.
I'm usually like you, getting frustrated with Mallan for the reasons you mentioned above, but I thought he was constantly involved and actually broke up some of the Utd play. Quinn beside him works well. Bringing Clarkson on for Quinn didn't work. Also thought Mallan was involved in some great intricate football and was finding feet more than usual. On the way to the car we heard some Utd fans saying they would love Utd to sign him, but it's all about opinions Bud.
Our cutting edge in the last 3rd needs to improve. Our midfield got us in some great positions, but the finishing and final ball was poor. We need to tighten up at the back too, but losing McAllister didn't help.
Let's hope we can turn these performances into points, starting with the Ton on Saturday. A better ref would help too.

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Re: Mallan, I've been thinking about this as in my opinion he is very talented, but has a habit of doing the complicated things well but the basic things poorly. In the central midfield role, the game often passes him by, and his basic passing / choices are dire. He performs much better with a gritty player beside him doing the hard work. I don't think he should be played as a central midfielder in a 4-4-2. Should be played as one of a 5 man midfield, or played between the midfield and a front man such as Sutton.

I'm not blaming Mallan for anything btw, but he has definitely been weak in the position he's being played for the whole season so far, the odd game aside.

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Re: Mallan, I've been thinking about this as in my opinion he is very talented, but has a habit of doing the complicated things well but the basic things poorly. In the central midfield role, the game often passes him by, and his basic passing / choices are dire. He performs much better with a gritty player beside him doing the hard work. I don't think he should be played as a central midfielder in a 4-4-2. Should be played as one of a 5 man midfield, or played between the midfield and a front man such as Sutton.

I'm not blaming Mallan for anything btw, but he has definitely been weak in the position he's being played for the whole season so far, the odd game aside.


Have said as much since last season. Mallan in a midfield five with confidence and a free reign is a matchwinner.

Sadly, like McGinn... like McLean... Hell, like Billy Stark, many of our fans will not see his true value and will wait till he is the mainstay in a bigger teams midfield before wondering why he never did it for us and thinking that proves them right!

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Re: Mallan, I've been thinking about this as in my opinion he is very talented, but has a habit of doing the complicated things well but the basic things poorly. In the central midfield role, the game often passes him by, and his basic passing / choices are dire. He performs much better with a gritty player beside him doing the hard work. I don't think he should be played as a central midfielder in a 4-4-2. Should be played as one of a 5 man midfield, or played between the midfield and a front man such as Sutton.

I'm not blaming Mallan for anything btw, but he has definitely been weak in the position he's being played for the whole season so far, the odd game aside.

This sums up Mallan really well this season, but thought he looked much better on Saturday and was one of our stand out players, along with McAllister. A fit Rocco Quinn helps him and the rest of the team big time.

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I thought Mallan had a decent first half but was dreadful once Quinn went off and he was sitting deeper.

First half Willow Flood gave him no time at all on the ball, constantly pressuring him but did ok.

2nd half he had much more time on the ball but I lost count of the number of times he had the ball at his feet with the chance to drive forward and he elected to play a hopeless long ball. This was probably more likely to be down to the change in shape and being instructed to sit deeper when Quinn went off but he was really poor in the 2nd half.

Edited by davidg

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On 26/12/2016 at 1:56 PM, insaintee said:

We had a  "real pig" in charge, he totally failed to drive us on. You could expect a team put out by Rae to be agricultural, but we weren't even that. We were badly organised, lacked fight and and looked unfit. Rae was not even doing the basics that were able to pull us out of relegation last season. 

And yet in his latest "how we continue to improve, but still lose" post match interviews Ross states we need to be "nastier".... the only way Ross could pull us out of the relgation position is if he leaves and joins Dumbarton, Dunfermline or Ayr as Manager and dies an "Alloa" elsewhere.

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21 hours ago, scottd said:

That style of management works less and less in the modern game.  Also the 'pig' style is generally short termist in its outlook and we need to look long term, like it or not (and obviously you don't) Ross is likely to be here for a while.:)

Maybe he will grow on me in League one Scott?

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