Ross and Fowler Shouldn't Take Up Their Posts aka the Allan McManus Appreciation Thread

[Dibbles old paperboy]

Well done to Allan McManus and the players for achieving the seemingly impossible - beating Hibs away at Easter Road with an inbalanced, unfit squad of no hopers, most of whom should be nowhere near a St Mirren jersey.

Perhaps as MacKenzie gets more game time and regains match sharpness and builds an understanding with Baird he'll turn out to be a decent signing after all. It was always going to take time (or more than 1 first team game) for the likes of MacKenzie, Quinn, Morgan, Gallacher returning from injuries to get up to speed and gel.

Players who looked awful a few weeks ago now have regained a bit of confidence and resilience and have shown they can beat the most expensive team and most over-paid manager in the league. 

Jack Ross and James Fowler seem quite upbeat about working with our squad of players despite the general consensus (in September rather than July) about the quality of our summer signings.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Dibbles old paperboy

[billyg]

It is an unbalanced squad , that's been obvious since before the window closed. Thankfully GLS realises that too , and has duly apologised for the shambles to the incoming management team . The fact that GLS also mentioned last midweek that new faces would arrive in January at the expense of some who are in the current squad may well have shaken the slackers into life yesterday !

[Dibbles old paperboy]

On 10/9/2016 at 2:19 PM, billyg said:

It is an unbalanced squad , that's been obvious since before the window closed. Thankfully GLS realises that too , and has duly apologised for the shambles to the incoming management team . The fact that GLS also mentioned last midweek that new faces would arrive in January at the expense of some who are in the current squad may well have shaken the slackers into life yesterday !

Am I the only person thinking this isn't shaping up well? Who does GLS think he is Romanov or the loopy Stephen Thompson at DUFC? Presumably with GLS and SMISA due to complete the takeover in the summer they were kept up to date with proposed transfer activity and once in the door approved the transfers which were being done? Whats the chairman doing sending out a vote of no confidence in a squad which can't be changed for almost 3 months in his comments to the new management team?

It may be a populist move to bin Rae and Farrell after 6 league games and replace them Jack Ross and James Fowler after narrowly missing out, ahem, on Billy Davies, Neil Warnock, and John Hughes. 

Ross and Fowler have said they are looking to get the best out of a good squad at this level and we have a good mix of experienced pros and good young players.

When GLS wanted the fans' money he said he supported the management team who were in place and had done well enough last season. We are now told that as soon as GLS became chairman that the management team had a bad working relationship with him. Surely a chairman has to set the right tone at the club and make sure senior staff like the management team, coaches, physios etc all feel valued and wanted and supported, so that they can pass that on to the players?

Did GLS ever come good on his free tickets to people who finished before him in the 10k who were wearing a St Mirren top?

I'm hoping Jack Ross and James Fowler do really well this season. If the appointment doesn't go to plan, GLS will have been responsible for undermining the previous management team and binning them ASAP and appointing a new management team and sending out a vote of no confidence in the current squad at the start of October, almost 3 months before the transfer window opens. Perhaps GLS should just pick the team?

[Lord Pityme]

3 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Am I the only person thinking this isn't shaping up well? Who does GLS think he is Romanov or the loopy Stephen Thompson at DUFC? Presumably with GLS and SMISA due to complete the takeover in the summer they were kept up to date with proposed transfer activity and once in the door approved the transfers which were being done? Whats the chairman doing sending out a vote of no confidence in a squad which can't be changed for almost 3 months in his comments to the new management team?

It may be a populist move to bin Rae and Farrell after 6 league games and replace them Jack Ross and James Fowler after narrowly missing out, ahem, on Billy Davies, Neil Warnock, and John Hughes. 

Ross and Fowler have said they are looking to get the best out of a good squad at this level and we have a good mix of experienced pros and good young players.

When GLS wanted the fans' money he said he supported the management team who were in place and had done well enough last season. We are now told that as soon as GLS became chairman that the management team had a bad working relationship with him. Surely a chairman has to set the right tone at the club and make sure senior staff like the management team, coaches, physios etc all feel valued and wanted and supported, so that they can pass that on to the players?

Did GLS ever come good on his free tickets to people who finished before him in the 10k who were wearing a St Mirren top?

I'm hoping Jack Ross and James Fowler do really well this season. If the appointment doesn't go to plan, GLS will have been responsible for undermining the previous management team and binning them ASAP and appointing a new management team and sending out a vote of no confidence in the current squad at the start of October, almost 3 months before the transfer window opens. Perhaps GLS should just pick the team?

If we win on Saturday nothing else will matter.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

Am I the only person thinking this isn't shaping up well? Who does GLS think he is Romanov or the loopy Stephen Thompson at DUFC? Presumably with GLS and SMISA due to complete the takeover in the summer they were kept up to date with proposed transfer activity and once in the door approved the transfers which were being done? Whats the chairman doing sending out a vote of no confidence in a squad which can't be changed for almost 3 months in his comments to the new management team?

It may be a populist move to bin Rae and Farrell after 6 league games and replace them Jack Ross and James Fowler after narrowly missing out, ahem, on Billy Davies, Neil Warnock, and John Hughes. 

Ross and Fowler have said they are looking to get the best out of a good squad at this level and we have a good mix of experienced pros and good young players.

When GLS wanted the fans' money he said he supported the management team who were in place and had done well enough last season. We are now told that as soon as GLS became chairman that the management team had a bad working relationship with him. Surely a chairman has to set the right tone at the club and make sure senior staff like the management team, coaches, physios etc all feel valued and wanted and supported, so that they can pass that on to the players?

Did GLS ever come good on his free tickets to people who finished before him in the 10k who were wearing a St Mirren top?

I'm hoping Jack Ross and James Fowler do really well this season. If the appointment doesn't go to plan, GLS will have been responsible for undermining the previous management team and binning them ASAP and appointing a new management team and sending out a vote of no confidence in the current squad at the start of October, almost 3 months before the transfer window opens. Perhaps GLS should just pick the team?

Since Alex Rae was shown the door there has been an improvement a steady improvement on the park which is the most important part of the club. Communication has improved also so I can't understand why you are getting your pants in a twist over GLS ?

[Sonny]

2 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Am I the only person thinking this isn't shaping up well? Who does GLS think he is Romanov or the loopy Stephen Thompson at DUFC? Presumably with GLS and SMISA due to complete the takeover in the summer they were kept up to date with proposed transfer activity and once in the door approved the transfers which were being done? Whats the chairman doing sending out a vote of no confidence in a squad which can't be changed for almost 3 months in his comments to the new management team?

It may be a populist move to bin Rae and Farrell after 6 league games and replace them Jack Ross and James Fowler after narrowly missing out, ahem, on Billy Davies, Neil Warnock, and John Hughes. 

Ross and Fowler have said they are looking to get the best out of a good squad at this level and we have a good mix of experienced pros and good young players.

When GLS wanted the fans' money he said he supported the management team who were in place and had done well enough last season. We are now told that as soon as GLS became chairman that the management team had a bad working relationship with him. Surely a chairman has to set the right tone at the club and make sure senior staff like the management team, coaches, physios etc all feel valued and wanted and supported, so that they can pass that on to the players?

Did GLS ever come good on his free tickets to people who finished before him in the 10k who were wearing a St Mirren top?

I'm hoping Jack Ross and James Fowler do really well this season. If the appointment doesn't go to plan, GLS will have been responsible for undermining the previous management team and binning them ASAP and appointing a new management team and sending out a vote of no confidence in the current squad at the start of October, almost 3 months before the transfer window opens. Perhaps GLS should just pick the team?

A lot of conjecture there. GS stated the bleeding obvious in the only media reference that I read and that the squad was imbalanced. Since it's true I do not think it is remotely like a 'vote of no confidence'. If you have other direct quotes I would be pleased to be corrected.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

1 minute ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Since Alex Rae was shown the door there has been an improvement a steady improvement on the park which is the most important part of the club. Communication has improved also so I can't understand why you are getting your pants in a twist over GLS ?

I may be in a minority but I think that there was always a good chance we were going to improve anyway after our first 6 games. Our 3 defeats were against the 3 top teams. We had a tough start to the fixture list and we also had 5 or 6 injuries in the first team squad in the first month of the season. Just because Ben Gordon and Gary MacKenzie had played a few U20 games did not mean they could step into the first team and improve things straight away. I reckoned it was most likely going to be mid-October before we saw Gordon (had he not been sent out on loan), MacKenzie, Quinn and Morgan (and Gallacher) all fully match fit and looking sharp again and once they were fit and we got a few results we would get a fairer reflection on the squad assembled for this season.

If GLS made life uncomfortable for AR or DF who is to say our bad start to the season is not his responsibility, if they were under a lot more pressure than they should have been under due to their relationship with him? 

[elvis]

FFS.

[Drew]

What a bizarre thread, and, it has to be said, some thoroughly puzzling musings from DoP.

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet, if not an axe to grind, mate, and it's becoming a tad Dicksonesque in its delivery.

[BuddieinEK]

I may be in a minority but I think that there was always a good chance we were going to improve anyway after our first 6 games. Our 3 defeats were against the 3 top teams. We had a tough start to the fixture list and we also had 5 or 6 injuries in the first team squad in the first month of the season. Just because Ben Gordon and Gary MacKenzie had played a few U20 games did not mean they could step into the first team and improve things straight away. I reckoned it was most likely going to be mid-October before we saw Gordon (had he not been sent out on loan), MacKenzie, Quinn and Morgan (and Gallacher) all fully match fit and looking sharp again and once they were fit and we got a few results we would get a fairer reflection on the squad assembled for this season.

If GLS made life uncomfortable for AR or DF who is to say our bad start to the season is not his responsibility, if they were under a lot more pressure than they should have been under due to their relationship with him? 

So where do you stand on Rae publicly saying his tactics were not to blame for our losses but errors from senior players... Players he signed?

Why have our performances improved with a change of tactics if they were nor a contributory factor at least?

[Dibbles old paperboy]

I was not an out and out Alex Rae fan. The club is always bigger than any manager or any group of players. I think there are some misconceptions about Rae this season which have been widely repeated and unfair. He never changed things when they weren't working. Despite having injuries to contend with, he made a lot of changes in 6 league games with the personnel at his disposal. While we nearly always started 4-4-2 we did change things during matches. It also widely repeated that Rae blamed everyone else and never took responsibility for his own mistakes. We only had 6 league games, but in 3 sets of interviews he said he brought half the players to the club and was responsible for those decisions and he was choosing the team and was responsible for that as well as how he asked the players to play. I did not find it hard to believe his claims that it was not a tactic to hoof the ball to the opposition and have to defend it again very quickly, or when we lost calamitous goals from schoolboy defending and goalkeeping that it was unreasonable to say the players should be doing better (such criticisms were mild compared to what fans were posting). The only player Rae singled out for criticism in a post match interview was Tom Walsh who appears to have responded well.

[Sonny]

I simply cannot believe that the hoofball had nothing to do with him. Under Danny the keeper constantly gave the ball to a member of the back four to try and keep possession and build play. I accept often it did not always work but Danny would not allow the team to play any other way. Under Rae (including last season and the 6 League fixture, 4 LC fixtures and 1 Challenge Cup fixture this season) the keeper kicks the ball straight up the park - so is that both keepers making that decision or is that the Manager's instruction? When the ball is immediately returned to the back four they hoof it straight back up again. If the players are not doing what the Manager instructed them to do how come the whole process was repeated in the next match? And the next? And the next? For 9 f**king months? Were the players totally ignoring Rae because there was some kind of conspiracy going on? And how come in only 3 games McManus has got them them playing a completely different and better way? Same players - better tactics and formation is the answer.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

I was not an out and out Alex Rae fan. The club is always bigger than any manager or any group of players. I think there are some misconceptions about Rae this season which have been widely repeated and unfair. He never changed things when they weren't working. Despite having injuries to contend with, he made a lot of changes in 6 league games with the personnel at his disposal. While we nearly always started 4-4-2 we did change things during matches. It also widely repeated that Rae blamed everyone else and never took responsibility for his own mistakes. We only had 6 league games, but in 3 sets of interviews he said he brought half the players to the club and was responsible for those decisions and he was choosing the team and was responsible for that as well as how he asked the players to play. I did not find it hard to believe his claims that it was not a tactic to hoof the ball to the opposition and have to defend it again very quickly, or when we lost calamitous goals from schoolboy defending and goalkeeping that it was unreasonable to say the players should be doing better (such criticisms were mild compared to what fans were posting). The only player Rae singled out for criticism in a post match interview was Tom Walsh who appears to have responded well.

Mallan was played in front of defenders. When Rae left he was put back into his forward roll and looks far more comfortable now with improved performance. Our left and right backs now play more forward. The difference to my eyes is night and day. It took balls to sack a manager 6 games in which I'm sure will see us climb the table. Players look as if they have been let off the shackles.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

Ultimately, Rae has gone and won't be back. But I think for our level in the Championship, we have much better defensive options than last season, and lots of options up front. If we count Walsh and Morgan as midfielders, and add them to Quinn and Mallan then we may not have a perfect midfield blend but they are all pretty useful players when they have their fitness and confidence. I didn't read much criticism of Kyle Hutton when we beat Hibs away. Did he play alright?

I don't think Ross and Fowler are inheriting a "shambles" or a bad squad at Championship level - unlike last season when Murray really did make a pig's ear pf the summer window!

[Drew]

32 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

Ultimately, Rae has gone and won't be back. But I think for our level in the Championship, we have much better defensive options than last season, and lots of options up front. If we count Walsh and Morgan as midfielders, and add them to Quinn and Mallan then we may not have a perfect midfield blend but they are all pretty useful players when they have their fitness and confidence. I didn't read much criticism of Kyle Hutton when we beat Hibs away. Did he play alright?

I don't think Ross and Fowler are inheriting a "shambles" or a bad squad at Championship level - unlike last season when Murray really did make a pig's ear pf the summer window!

Talk about damning with faint praise.

Rae might have assembled, on paper, a decent squad, but that makes it all the more of an indictment that he couldn't get them to perform for him. Something that the caretaker manager seemed to achieve to a reasonable degree with just three matches in charge.

Whichever way you dress it up, Rae failed miserably this season, and had us sitting in a lower position than Murray did in what is, arguably, an easier league this term.

Anyway, it is your digs at Gordon Scott in this thread that strike me as particularly odd. The chairman and his colleagues on the BoD had a decision to make. Few of us are complaining that he made it, and we move on. Perhaps you should.

 

 

 

Edited October 10, 2016 by Drew

[Sonny]

I do not think we have a shambles of a squad either. It's just Rae could not get out of them what they were capable of. The squad is still imbalanced however the new formation and tactics are suiting the players we do have. Amazing what McManus has done in only 3 games.

[stlucifer]

2 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

I may be in a minority but I think that there was always a good chance we were going to improve anyway after our first 6 games. Our 3 defeats were against the 3 top teams. We had a tough start to the fixture list and we also had 5 or 6 injuries in the first team squad in the first month of the season. Just because Ben Gordon and Gary MacKenzie had played a few U20 games did not mean they could step into the first team and improve things straight away. I reckoned it was most likely going to be mid-October before we saw Gordon (had he not been sent out on loan), MacKenzie, Quinn and Morgan (and Gallacher) all fully match fit and looking sharp again and once they were fit and we got a few results we would get a fairer reflection on the squad assembled for this season.

If GLS made life uncomfortable for AR or DF who is to say our bad start to the season is not his responsibility, if they were under a lot more pressure than they should have been under due to their relationship with him? 

There weren't many who backed Rae to turn it around. Most were, in my opinion correctly, baying for blood. The players who were available didn't appear interested or organised. That was nothing to do with the chairman. It was, AFAIC, all to do with the management team.

[Dibbles old paperboy]

2 hours ago, stlucifer said:

There weren't many who backed Rae to turn it around. Most were, in my opinion correctly, baying for blood. The players who were available didn't appear interested or organised. That was nothing to do with the chairman. It was, AFAIC, all to do with the management team.

Now that Rae has gone ultimately it no longer matters whether he was trying to blame GLS for unrest at the club and making more excuses about poor results or whether there was a genuine problem. If we end up having a good rest of the season it will all be forgotten anyway.

I will say that I thought Rae did well enough last year and I expected this season to see another improvement. I can appreciate that it could not have been easy for Rae and Farrell with a takeover and change of chairman over the summer and all I was suggesting was that if he had a bad relationship with the new chairman it might not be massively different to a player who performed pretty well under the previous manager losing form under a new boss who doesn't rate him, and surely we should hope our chairman will try and create a positive atmosphere as much as possible. If Rae felt his coat was on a shoogly peg it may explain why he was defensive in interviews.

[Sonny]

I admire your defence of Rae DOB however I think you are letting Rae off lightly.

GS made a statement when he took over about entertaining football that is a joy to watch and talked about how important it was for the Academy to produce players in a conveyor belt to the first team. Rae's comment's when he was appointed, and I am ad-libbing here, and to quote Shull  'tippy-tappy shite' when referring to the U20's would immediately have put him at odds with what GS wanted for the Club.

There was a huge difference of philosophy and direction from Day 1 when Rae publicly stated he did not believe in the way the U20's played. Many would argue the U20's are far more entertaining (and successful) than the first team. I noticed today that Allan McManus will now be involved with the first team training as well as the U20's so all the players and coaches are singing from the same hymn sheet. That was never the case with Rae as the U20s and first team were playing totally different brands of football.