Eaglesham saint Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Personally I think we all need a fresh look at the club,I include the fans in this.We all need to forget what has gone wrong and start again. Take ITC and Ross County, "puts on helmet"whether we like it or not these are the clubs we should be comparing with.both have the same problem and scrimp about lower leagues and pickup gems like Shinnie bros,Draper,Ian Vigurs and many more.They regularly do well in cups and the only time they seem to be free of relegation most times. We need to rid ourselves of the idea we are a "big" club. Although we have potentially a good population but have the big two just along the road. We at the moment have a lot of good players they are at a low ebb of confidence. This can only be bad as kids will feel it and they're scared to use the skills they have. The old pros have been through the mill before and it doesn't affect them the same. As of tomorrow I implore the fans to put their animosity to the team on hold and support the team. They will make mistakes but give them chance and get behind them from the start. It's not a lot to ask and if don't support them we may be in the seaside league before we know it,this is a plea from the heart Let's start tomorrow against a team that has been punching above its weight for 5-6 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 I'm not convinced Ross County aren't about to embark on the exact same journey we are on. Won the League Cup, have barely kicked a ball since, and are now scrambling around at the foot of the Premiership just a year on. The League Cup is a jinx! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 38 minutes ago, Eaglesham saint said: Personally I think we all need a fresh look at the club,I include the fans in this.We all need to forget what has gone wrong and start again. Take ITC and Ross County, "puts on helmet"whether we like it or not these are the clubs we should be comparing with.both have the same problem and scrimp about lower leagues and pickup gems like Shinnie bros,Draper,Ian Vigurs and many more.They regularly do well in cups and the only time they seem to be free of relegation most times. We need to rid ourselves of the idea we are a "big" club. Although we have potentially a good population but have the big two just along the road. We at the moment have a lot of good players they are at a low ebb of confidence. This can only be bad as kids will feel it and they're scared to use the skills they have. The old pros have been through the mill before and it doesn't affect them the same. As of tomorrow I implore the fans to put their animosity to the team on hold and support the team. They will make mistakes but give them chance and get behind them from the start. It's not a lot to ask and if don't support them we may be in the seaside league before we know it,this is a plea from the heart Let's start tomorrow against a team that has been punching above its weight for 5-6 years Bear with me on this - but see posts like this, it's like a scab on a face. You know you shouldn't pick at it. You don't want to pick at it. But everytime you touch your face you can feel it and somehow the urge to pull the scab off becomes irresistible. I'm sure you are a lovely person, well meaning and with great sentiments. I honestly don't want to pick apart your post. But I honestly can't help it. There's just too much in there to ignore. Look first off, the idea of the club and fans forgetting what went wrong and then starting again making all the same mistakes that were forgotten before is just plain silly. The club should be studying it's mistakes, learning from them, fixing them and making sure no-one ever gets to make the same mistakes again. On the pitch there a need to analyse why the club loses so many cheap goals from set pieces? Why can't players stick with their markers in the box? Why do St Mirren players seem to think that playing football the right way is when already losing to pass the ball around the back four, ensuring everyone gets a touch of the ball without pressure on them from the opposition, before passing it 30 - 40 yards back to a goalkeeper who is only going to punt the ball 50 yards forward aimlessly and often to an opponent? And why do St Mirren seem incapable of getting more than 5 shots on target in any match? Off the pitch the club has to learn from the mistakes it's made in managerial appointments. It needs to run a full analysis of what is going wrong at the academy finding out why it's producing players who appear heartless, gutless and talentless. It needs to listen to it's customers, particularly the ones complaining, to find out why customers aren't happy, and it needs to find ways to boost and grow the clubs revenue making decisions that the last board seemed paralysed with fear to make. Then there's the assertion that ICT or Ross County were "scrimping" around lower leagues to find Ian Vigurs (ex Aberdeen and Celtic) who ICT signed after he was freed from Motherwell, Ross Draper, who came from Macclesfield Town where the wages were roughly double what St Mirren currently pay. And Andrew Shinnie who was signed initially from Rangers having spent two years out on loan with Dundee. And finally you make a case for players morale being given a boost by fans not criticising them. Do you not think that has to work the other way? The players themselves will know if they have played well or not. They'll know by the result whether the team is doing well or not. A silent crowd, like the one on Tuesday night, won't boost the players morale if those players are still under achieving. Instead of blaming the customers for the players performance, how about the players take a bit of responsibility for the shite fest they are putting on, that they put some work into their fitness and training and that they start showing the determination and will to succeed that might turn the clubs results around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chalky1 Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 So was winning the Scottish Cup, we never really kicked on from that either. Agree with what the OP is saying but it is difficult if you are watching the same mistakes etc wekk in week out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintargyll Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Sacking Danny Lennon and Alex after each cup win tells you more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 46 minutes ago, div said: I'm not convinced Ross County aren't about to embark on the exact same journey we are on. Won the League Cup, have barely kicked a ball since, and are now scrambling around at the foot of the Premiership just a year on. The League Cup is a jinx! Good Point..... Look at Livi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Dickson Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, saintargyll said: Sacking Danny Lennon and Alex after each cup win tells you more Yep, particularly the sacking of Alex Smith. Just think about this for a minute. St Mirren have just won the Scottish Cup and you receive a bid for your winning goalscorer which would see a World Cup winner (Ossie Ardiles) and an international star (Nico Claesen) plus around £750,000 cash come to Paisley. The player wants to leave, you as manager want to complete the deal, but your board of directors think you've lost your marbles and start telling directors at other clubs that the Scottish Cup win was the worst thing that could have ever happened to the club because now your management team want to sign up washed up foreigners. The Spurs bid gets knocked back, some of the board members sound out Fitzpatrick and McGarvey over the possibility of them replacing Smith and Bone, and you're handed a transfer budget so small that you are left raiding the bottom tier of Scottish Football to land Bobby Dawson, Mark McWalter and Keith Walker. Then sure enough in Tromso Fitzpatrick reportedly has a bust up with Smith over his non selection, and a few weeks later Jimmy Bone and Frank McGarvey have a set to in the tunnel after Alex Smith substitutes McGarvey. And against this backdrop Abercrombie and Hamilton's alcoholic abuse has escalated to levels that have really affected their performances. What chance did Smith have and to rub salt into the wounds Fitzpatrick would go on to sign a washed up Stevie Archibald and Victor Munoz. Edited November 4, 2016 by Stuart Dickson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Eagle not going to do what some morons do and just say crap thread. Its not, its what we are all thinking, going thru. 203 days now . Its reached the stage , that I am going to see Saints lose, I actually cant see anyway with present crop that we are good enough to beat Spartans never mind teams above us. Whilst I support, in silence, ST customers have rights. They either have the right to not turn up, and empty seats shout loud. Or watch a bunch of gutless headless chickens fire blanks. For me, this runs far deeper than AR, TC, GT, DL, GM. JR, IM....... And that's since 2011. That's says it all. We have had more managers than any other team in Scotland, only Watford have had more, but they don't struggle....... Consistency on the park, is massively helped by whats off the park...... Sure the club sale, the new BOD, the Old Board.. All factors. Taking all of that out..... Sons will give 100% tom, they will have a plan........ .... JR will have a plan, a formation, but will he get 100%.... if he does I am convinced will get at least a draw, if he doesn't which I expect we lose.................. now that my friend is totally unacceptable........ and that's why we have 4 points out of a possible 44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soctty Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 hour ago, div said: I'm not convinced Ross County aren't about to embark on the exact same journey we are on. Won the League Cup, have barely kicked a ball since, and are now scrambling around at the foot of the Premiership just a year on. The League Cup is a jinx! They'll do their usual if they're in any way vulnerable - sign a few players in January on short term deals to get them out of trouble. They've got some money behind them and usually use it wisely, keeping them up. They've dug themselves out of a January hole in three of the last four season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglesham saint Posted November 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 These times happen to most clubs,remember Killie were in the bottom league ,Dundee are a yoyo club.i agree with most sentiments on here ,but certain posters would find fault if Guardiola was manager.All my post was trying to do is get a reality check I do not boo managers or players and frankly nit picking about the past is not what we need at at this time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scam Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 I'm not a fan of booing players and managers, however, this comes more from the passion the fans have for the club that they are not seeing from the players. Of course it would be better if it was all sunshine and rainbows but that isn't the case. There are times where fans have to pull a team through a rough patch, but 203 days without a league win is too much to stomach, yet we show up to support the team. It's time for the 11 on the pitch to show that dig and fight and show they care for the club! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfellow Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 We are not a big club. But we are not down with the minnows either. As I'm an oldfellow with time on my hands I looked at our league positions in the last 70 years ie since WWII. Our mean average position is 12th. Our most common ( mode) position is 11th. We had a bad time in the early 70's ( we got as low as 29th)and in the early 2000's but that is balanced by our good spell in the eighties. So 12th seems about right. I've not looked at the figures but I imagine , Falkirk, StJohnstone and a few others are similar. I suspect that Motherwell and Kilmarnock would be well ahead of us . The 7 clubs from the major cities will be well ahead. At the moment we are 22nd which rivals the mid seventies and is certainly well below where we should be . Time for my afternoon nap now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 58 minutes ago, Eaglesham saint said: These times happen to most clubs,remember Killie were in the bottom league ,Dundee are a yoyo club.i agree with most sentiments on here ,but certain posters would find fault if Guardiola was manager.All my post was trying to do is get a reality check I do not boo managers or players and frankly nit picking about the past is not what we need at at this time. I am with Eaglesham all the way. Moaning is easy. Moving on is tougher but nescessary and now is the time to do it. If we are not part of the solution then we must be part of the problem. I do take Oldfellow's point on our natural position in the footballing heirarchy however these things do come n cycles. Lets stop our point scoring aganst each other, the former board, players etc and get behind the team on saturday and beyond. I was one of the 1008 who were at Greenock. We actually have a great core support but seem determned to live in the past rather than the present and the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 5 minutes ago, St.Ricky said: I am with Eaglesham all the way. Moaning is easy. Moving on is tougher but nescessary and now is the time to do it. If we are not part of the solution then we must be part of the problem. I do take Oldfellow's point on our natural position in the footballing heirarchy however these things do come n cycles. Lets stop our point scoring aganst each other, the former board, players etc and get behind the team on saturday and beyond. I was one of the 1008 who were at Greenock. We actually have a great core support but seem determned to live in the past rather than the present and the future. Got to disagree with you mate Who is in the past.... this is all about the now, Its prats like Fitzy who live in the past , stating only 3 months ago we will win SPL in 3 years and he is inside the club So who has the reality check. The fans do. And after 203 days without a win in the 2nd tier, fans have every right to question.... Does not mean we don't support, my son and I will support £40 to the cause tom, at least I want to see some fight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Just now, DougJamie said: Got to disagree with you mate Who is in the past.... this is all about the now, Its prats like Fitzy who live in the past , stating only 3 months ago we will win SPL in 3 years and he is inside the club So who has the reality check. The fans do. And after 203 days without a win in the 2nd tier, fans have every right to question.... Does not mean we don't support, my son and I will support £40 to the cause tom, at least I want to see some fight DJ I cant see where we are in disagreement. Neither do I suggest that fans should not make their voices heard especialy to the board. But, like you, I will be shelling money to watch the Buds home and away. I expect 100% effort. We all do. It is now the managers job to make sure that happens. The point is that the club and fans do need to share the same vision for the club. A club which has, to my mind outperformed for its size over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Just now, St.Ricky said: DJ I cant see where we are in disagreement. Neither do I suggest that fans should not make their voices heard especialy to the board. But, like you, I will be shelling money to watch the Buds home and away. I expect 100% effort. We all do. It is now the managers job to make sure that happens. The point is that the club and fans do need to share the same vision for the club. A club which has, to my mind outperformed for its size over the years. Ok Ricky How with our budget have we over performed? As discussed we won LC which was fantastic, but so did Killie, Livi and Ross County We have finished in bottom 3 in most of our seasons in SPL. I would say, on budget we are around 11th or 12th in Scotland, so being a Falkirk or Dundee is acceptable. Remember if this league was reversed and we played Sons at top of league there would be 4500 easy there. I cant see 2500 tom, that's a huge drop in revenue But your right in one way, we are both fans and regardless support, although the missus and friends are certainly questioning my sanity ( no smart remarks please) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 3 hours ago, div said: I'm not convinced Ross County aren't about to embark on the exact same journey we are on. Won the League Cup, have barely kicked a ball since, and are now scrambling around at the foot of the Premiership just a year on. The League Cup is a jinx! Let hope Celtic wins the League Cup this year then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 1 minute ago, DougJamie said: Ok Ricky How with our budget have we over performed? As discussed we won LC which was fantastic, but so did Killie, Livi and Ross County We have finished in bottom 3 in most of our seasons in SPL. I would say, on budget we are around 11th or 12th in Scotland, so being a Falkirk or Dundee is acceptable. Remember if this league was reversed and we played Sons at top of league there would be 4500 easy there. I cant see 2500 tom, that's a huge drop in revenue But your right in one way, we are both fans and regardless support, although the missus and friends are certainly questioning my sanity ( no smart remarks please) DJ O the basis of success in Scotland alone all of us should be following one or other of the two big Glasgow clubs and clearly many do accross Scotland including in Paisley. I started watching Saints in the early 70's and to be honest - they were not performing well (See Oldboy's post above). I then enjoyed a period between the Mid 70s until 3 Years ago where we Won the Scottish Cup, Won The League Cup, Won the Anglo Scottish Cup and Challenge Cup. We regularly made semi-final appearances in the cup and finished high enough in the league to play in Europe over 4 or 5 seasons. Ok we were relegated but bounced back giving us the pleasure of winning the second tier in Scottish Football. All of this we did without having a rich benefactor. Inverness are heavily supported by the owner of Tulloch Construction a genuinely rich multi-millionaire. Ross County are heavily supported by Roy McGregor a genuinely rich individual worth between £500m to £1Bn Our relationship between the excellent support we have and the club has helped us to punch above our weight. I can't think of another provincial club which has performed so well on such limited resources. I think we park our sanity when we become a fan so your wife is probably right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud the Baker Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) 34 minutes ago, DougJamie said: Oh Ricky, you're so fine............. You're so fine you blow my mind Edited November 4, 2016 by Bud the Baker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 46 minutes ago, DougJamie said: Got to disagree with you mate Who is in the past.... this is all about the now, Its prats like Fitzy who live in the past , stating only 3 months ago we will win SPL in 3 years and he is inside the club So who has the reality check. The fans do. And after 203 days without a win in the 2nd tier, fans have every right to question.... Does not mean we don't support, my son and I will support £40 to the cause tom, at least I want to see some fight I love when people try really hard to make things worse than they are....................... Just to give you a reality check we didn't play for approx. 90 of these "203" days but don't let that get in the way. And before you jump in, again, yeah over 100 days is hardly great but keep it real Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 Just now, faraway saint said: I love when people try really hard to make things worse than they are....................... Just to give you a reality check we didn't play for approx. 90 of these "203" days but don't let that get in the way. And before you jump in, again, yeah over 100 days is hardly great but keep it real I managed 31 posts without you slagging me off, now that is a record to be proud of It was Div that pointed out the 201 two days ago, really I should have done a faraway and asked him to subtract the summer break , but I am not that parochial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, DougJamie said: I managed 31 posts without you slagging me off, now that is a record to be proud of It was Div that pointed out the 201 two days ago, really I should have done a faraway and asked him to subtract the summer break , but I am not that intelligent I know, but I do like you. Edited November 4, 2016 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 19 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said: You're so fine you blow my mind I get it bud! I recall the song. I wish - But I know mine is only one of many voices with an equal interest in the club. Even when we differ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 26 minutes ago, faraway saint said: I know, but I do like you. Intelligence + St Mirren = Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted November 4, 2016 Report Share Posted November 4, 2016 20 minutes ago, helpmaboab said: Maybe if the midden won a game things would be different. maybe they have set a club record for longest run without a win maybe they have set a record for most number of managers in the shortest timeframe maybe they have set a record for being crap for a whole century and now intend beating their ain record maybe they reflect the Paisley loser ethos Shite toon, shite team... Soon to be a City I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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