the new board

[rebella15]

Is just like the old board, ie not puting a penny into the club.

meanwhile SMISA puts in money to the youth academy and panda club and now over £8k every three months , which means the minority shareholder will be puting in £350k over the next 10 but the majority  shareholder puts in nothing.Will the guys standing for Director for SMiSA address this ?? before we vote??

[El Gingero]

I'm looking forward to reading what David Riley has to say on the subject. From my conversations with him he definitely wouldn't be a yes man on the board. I'm throwing my ample weight behind David Riley.

[rebella15]

The new board should have people on board who are going to invest in the club if the Chairman is not. I have no doubt they will be begging SMiSA to bail them out in January

I

 

 

[pod]

Nobody is putting their own money into football anymore, they're no return.

Where's the money going to come from when the fans take over.

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by pod

[DougJamie]

We dont need money

 

We just need to stop wasting it

[St.Ricky]

A number of good points have been made.

I share concerns about lack of investent now and in the future.

Essentially gaining and then selling the majority shareholding brings no money into the club.

It did bring about "Regime Change".

Neither myself or my two sons or my grandoson have signed up to the buy out at this time.

We are in a position to do so but do not yet see a clear plan which shows investment in the football side of the club.

Until we see that - then we will hold off.

What I am doing is Joining the 1877 Club, Using Parking Facilities at the club and I will purcchase a ha season, season ticket.

These monies go directly to support the budget of the club.

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by St.Ricky

[div]

1 hour ago, pod said:

Nobody is putting their own money into football anymore, they're no return.

Where's the money going to come from when the fans take over.

The revenue the club makes is what is has to spend.

Gate money, season tickets, advertising, hospitality, prize money (no laughing at the back), grants, TV money, events, transfer fees (I said no laughing) etc etc....

When the fans own the club it will be exactly the same as it is today, but hopefully with Gordon and the board having increased the amount of revenue generated by the club during their time in control.

We can't be in a situation where we are relying on individuals on the board to put their own money in, and nor should we expect the fans to do so.

The club has to be self sustainable.

[shull]

1977 Club? 

Is it free to join? 

Clique free? 

Where do we meet? 

1977 prices for coffee and pies? 

Where dae I sign up? 

[Soctty]

22 minutes ago, div said:

The revenue the club makes is what is has to spend.

Gate money, season tickets, advertising, hospitality, prize money (no laughing at the back), grants, TV money, events, transfer fees (I said no laughing) etc etc....

When the fans own the club it will be exactly the same as it is today, but hopefully with Gordon and the board having increased the amount of revenue generated by the club during their time in control.

We can't be in a situation where we are relying on individuals on the board to put their own money in, and nor should we expect the fans to do so.

The club has to be self sustainable.

Spot on. The onus will be on the club to maximise revenue from wherever it can, and then spend it wisely.

 

Getting more people into the stadium would seem the most lucrative way of increasing our revenue. Another 1,000 fans on Saturday would net another £15-20,000, roughly (assuming most fans are adults). There isn't much else a club of our size can do to bring in that kind of regular revenue. Up to the manager and team to deliver results, which will in turn add to the budget in that way eventually.

 

A few wins would do wonders for the team, the fans, and could also do wonders for the bank balance if we can do it often enough...

[iainsc]

2 hours ago, pod said:

Nobody is putting their own money into football anymore, they're no return.

Where's the money going to come from when the fans take over.

 

Get a loan from the bank if not then we are going down, you just have to look the last time we were in the Premier League the teams around us bought them self's out of trouble we did not and went down and that is what is going to happen.  

[Edinbuddie]

I'm surprised there's still some that think that it's the role of the BoD to put their own money in to the running of the club. That hasn't happened for years, won't happen in the future, and is a model that has proved to be unsustainable at a large number of clubs. No bank would give a loan to a football club either.

We can only spend what we earn.

[shull]

2 minutes ago, iainsc said:

Get a loan from the bank if not then we are going down, you just have to look the last time we were in the Premier League the teams around us bought them self's out of trouble we did not and went down and that is what is going to happen.  

I would rather go down than put the Club in serious debt which could lead to death. 

[St.Ricky]

18 minutes ago, div said:

The revenue the club makes is what is has to spend.

Gate money, season tickets, advertising, hospitality, prize money (no laughing at the back), grants, TV money, events, transfer fees (I said no laughing) etc etc....

When the fans own the club it will be exactly the same as it is today, but hopefully with Gordon and the board having increased the amount of revenue generated by the club during their time in control.

We can't be in a situation where we are relying on individuals on the board to put their own money in, and nor should we expect the fans to do so.

The club has to be self sustainable.

Div

I think you would regard me as positive.

Businesses - whether community owned businesses or others have generally two or three sources of funds.

Capital Investment

Revenue 

Grants

The mix of these is dependent on the business plan.

Are you saying that the business plan for the club is solely going to rely on increasing turnover?

This type of approach leads generally to slow but relatively risk free growth if it is to succeed barring unusual revenue income such as you list.

This is commendable but hardly exciting or inspiring.

There is however considerable scope for increasing revenue but the sting in the tale is that what this currently means is existing customers raising their individual spend.

An acceptable strategy with which I personally have no argument, but fans/supporters enivitably expoct more in return.

Increased prize money and increased transfer income will come with improvement on the park as will advertising and hospitality income.

But

What is our strategy to attract Events?

What is our strategy to maximise income from food and drink sales using the hospitaliy facilities on non match days?

What is our strategy regardng grants?

Sharing these thoughts might spark activity or introductions from fans which could speed up the process.

I do have the slight feeling that things are being kept tight at present with everything having to go through the bottleneck at the club - result can be too much activity and too little outcome.

Finally

Why should raising capital be considered a non starter?

The money doesn't need to be raised by issuing shares which dilute the majority shareholding.

 

 

[iainsc]

4 minutes ago, shull said:

I would rather go down than put the Club in serious debt which could lead to death. 

Then you are going to get your wish because if we dont get any money we will go down and I dont think that we will ever get back to the Premier league.

[div]

10 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Div

I think you would regard me as positive.

Businesses - whether community owned businesses or others have generally two or three sources of funds.

Capital Investment

Revenue 

Grants

The mix of these is dependent on the business plan.

Are you saying that the business plan for the club is solely going to rely on increasing turnover?

This type of approach leads generally to slow but relatively risk free growth if it is to succeed barring unusual revenue income such as you list.

This is commendable but hardly exciting or inspiring.

There is however considerable scope for increasing revenue but the sting in the tale is that what this currently means is existing customers raising their individual spend.

An acceptable strategy with which I personally have no argument, but fans/supporters enivitably expoct more in return.

Increased prize money and increased transfer income will come with improvement on the park as will advertising and hospitality income.

But

What is our strategy to attract Events?

What is our strategy to maximise income from food and drink sales using the hospitaliy facilities on non match days?

What is our strategy regardng grants?

Sharing these thoughts might spark activity or introductions from fans which could speed up the process.

I do have the slight feeling that things are being kept tight at present with everything having to go through the bottleneck at the club - result can be too much activity and too little outcome.

Finally

Why should raising capital be considered a non starter?

The money doesn't need to be raised by issuing shares which dilute the majority shareholding.

 

 

The club is run as a business, and as such if it wants to increase revenue by investing then those investment funds need to come from the club, IMO, not from individuals on the board.

The 1877 bar is case in point. The club has invested say £40K of it's own money up front to help get that facility built. The members put in £10K.

The members are now repaying that debt every month and at the end of the repayment period the club will have a £50K facility it can use every day outside of matchdays to generate it's own revenue. That's a sensible deployment of club funds IMO, with little or no risk and a good return at the end (provided it is marketed properly).

 

 

[St.Ricky]

16 minutes ago, div said:

The club is run as a business, and as such if it wants to increase revenue by investing then those investment funds need to come from the club, IMO, not from individuals on the board.

The 1877 bar is case in point. The club has invested say £40K of it's own money up front to help get that facility built. The members put in £10K.

The members are now repaying that debt every month and at the end of the repayment period the club will have a £50K facility it can use every day outside of matchdays to generate it's own revenue. That's a sensible deployment of club funds IMO, with little or no risk and a good return at the end (provided it is marketed properly).

 

 

You won't find me disagreeing. I like this initative.

But capital raised does not need to come from directors loans as in the past.

There are other ways to raise this. Once again - without diluting ownership.

 

Edited November 7, 2016 by St.Ricky

[rebella15]

So should SMiSA bail out the club in January if requested and continue to put in £35k a year  without any return ?

 

 

 

[Pepé Le Pew]

24 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

You won't find me disagreeing but capital raised does not need to come from directors loans as in the past.

There are other ways to raise this. Once again - without diluting ownership.

 

Such as?

[div]

9 minutes ago, rebella15 said:

So should SMiSA bail out the club in January if requested and continue to put in £35k a year  without any return ?

Why would the club need "bailing out" in January?

The fans are putting £12 a month in towards securing the majority shareholding of the football club in 10 years time.

The £2 of that, which equates to your £35K a year is spent entirely at the fans discretion. The first part of that was the construction of a disabled platform for our fellow fans.

I'm not sure what return it is you are expecting?

[St.Ricky]

16 minutes ago, Pepé Le Pew said:

Such as?

 

16 minutes ago, Pepé Le Pew said:

Such as?

Pepe

Control is excercised by holding the majority number of voting shares.

One example could be the issue of other shares e.g. Preference Shares.

These would provide capital for the club to use alongside security for the investor/s as these rank before ordinary shareholders.

There are other ways.

Both legal and financial advisers to the club will be aware of these.

Why not address your question to them?

[rebella15]

1 hour ago, div said:

Why would the club need "bailing out" in January?

The fans are putting £12 a month in towards securing the majority shareholding of the football club in 10 years time.

The £2 of that, which equates to your £35K a year is spent entirely at the fans discretion. The first part of that was the construction of a disabled platform for our fellow fans.

I'm not sure what return it is you are 

 

The club have always  had a cash flow problem in January and this coming one will be the same.

and do you think it is normal for a minority shareholder to invest in a business while the majority shareholder does not ? For ten years ?

 

[DougJamie]

2 hours ago, iainsc said:

Get a loan from the bank if not then we are going down, you just have to look the last time we were in the Premier League the teams around us bought them self's out of trouble we did not and went down and that is what is going to happen.  

Ok I am not financial Wizard but our BOD have shelled out 6 figures in compensation over the last 3 seasons.

Imagine what £200k would get us.

JRs issue is saving money not spending it. We have some crap to offload and I am sure he is not alone in the instruction " free up cash before you spend"

As long as the BOD have a plan, we can go down. Look at Pars, somehow they survived with a winding up order..... we are a similar size.

I honestly thought when we went down that we would have bigger crowds. County, Accies , Caley and Fakes cant muster 300 away support . Ton, Bairns, Utd, Hibs can bring 600- 1200. Added to that I thought we would be winning, we would keep our core 3-3500 . Bingo more revenue.....

I don't think we are down, despite the horrendous start we are only 6 points off, we easily could be 9 or 10, but what it also shows is that Pars and Sons are dreadful teams, that we should have beaten...... we will get better.... but I cant see them getting any better.

So survive and then a proper couple of windows and developing youth and the furture starts to look brighter

[Pepé Le Pew]

2 hours ago, St.Ricky said:

Control is excercised by holding the majority number of voting shares.

One example could be the issue of other shares e.g. Preference Shares.

These would provide capital for the club to use alongside security for the investor/s as these rank before ordinary shareholders.

Thanks for that Ricky.

I don't see the point in raising capital to throw at signing players in January. As said it will be more a case of re-jigging the current squad. The actual facilities the club holds are more than adequate to support a Premiership level club so no requirement for more capital in that regard.

I know that some clubs have launched 'Player funds' to add to managers playing budgets. Albion Rovers, Clyde and Partick Thistle spring to mind. Although this is essentially a donation to the club and the club now has hundreds of folk paying £12.50 or £25 a month for the Supporters' Fund so I guess there wouldn't be much of a take up on that basis alone.

Quote

There are other ways.

Both legal and financial advisers to the club will be aware of these.

Why not address your question to them?

You brought it up, that's why I asked you Ricky.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Pepé Le Pew

[Soctty]

3 hours ago, iainsc said:

Then you are going to get your wish because if we dont get any money we will go down and I dont think that we will ever get back to the Premier league.

Hate to agree with him, but it would be gross stupidity of the club to take on any more bank loans. We would have gone bust had it not been for the move to the new stadium, clearing our debt. Why risk the future of the club for the impatience of  frustrated fans?

 

Rather have a club in a lower league than no club at all.

[Soctty]

2 hours ago, rebella15 said:

So should SMiSA bail out the club in January if requested and continue to put in £35k a year  without any return ?

 

 

 

The money is paid in by fans. Speaking as one of them, the only benefit I require from putting this money is, is the money be spent improving some aspect of the club, or helping contribute to club funds for general matters.