We Are Down

[Sonny]

17 hours ago, Drew said:

It was a bit frustrating watcing our young wide players feeling the need to always reach the byeline before putting a cross in. 

On occasion, crosses from deeper positions can be very effective.  Lappin was very good at this, and Sutton prospered from his deliveries.  Carey was also effective in this way.

An earlier cross from deeper is often more likely to catch defenders out of position.  I'd like to think that the coaching staff are working with McAllister and Morgan to develop their crossing skills in general, but, importantly, to hone this specific area of their game.

Deep crosses can be effective Drew if they are whipped in. But we float everything in which is the easiest thing in the world to defend against. And for his height and strength I do not think Sutton is particularly good in the air. He did get to a lot of balls on Saturday but rarely laid it off to anyone or got a header on target. I agree that all the players need to learn how to whip a ball in (oh for a Billy Stark) to give players like Sutton a chance.

[div]

1 hour ago, Sonny said:

Deep crosses can be effective Drew if they are whipped in. But we float everything in which is the easiest thing in the world to defend against. And for his height and strength I do not think Sutton is particularly good in the air. He did get to a lot of balls on Saturday but rarely laid it off to anyone or got a header on target. I agree that all the players need to learn how to whip a ball in (oh for a Billy Stark) to give players like Sutton a chance.

Yeah that was my observation on Sat too. We got a lot of balls into the box, but too many of them were the high floating type ball that defenders must love.

A whipped in ball with pace is much more difficult to defend and also much easier to score from if the striker gets in before the defender.

Of course it's much more difficult to deliver a cross with pace at the right height but continually floating them into the box doesn't seem like a great strategy to me!

[DougJamie]

Ok,

What are we expecting here.....  And this is just last year

1)  IM rabbit in headlights 16 games in league no home wins 2 wins overall

2) AR- Gives us steel, dreadful football, win ugly. When we win, but to be fair after 4-1 defeat to Livi gets results against bottom 5, no wins against top 5

3) AR- Leaves us with a squad that most on here say will be top 4......

4) GS sacks AR, whats the plan? Not happy with football so whats the plan?

5) Brings in a total novice- nice guy JR, no track record apart from a relegation on his CV, also inherits a bunch of wasters.

JR has to bring in kids as the squad he inherits is so poor,

 

So we have been here last 3 years. We go into the window with a novice..... 

What should have happened and would have saved us

Is- Got in a  seasoned manager- even if it costs 30k more, cause with 2170 at game Sat we will lose 100s of K now.

Made JR his assistant....

We can blame old BOD, and I do, we can blame GS, and he hasn't helped, Fitzy is the moron who states we will win SPFL by 2019??

My club is going downhill faster than Franz Klammer, and the old BOD and the new board may to great business deals but have no clue about whats makes success on the pitch- that's so obvious.

Spartans will beat us- after the beat EK their tails are up. When that happens people will call for JRs head, that's not the problem , and its not been the problem.

Its the top....... Get in a good manager, a good coach.

Fergie, Hendrie both inherited poor squads...... as did Gus and to a degree Danny.

As things stand I don't think we will get 12 points this season............. Our must win games have given us 0 points,

 

 

[Lord Pityme]

4 minutes ago, helpmaboab said:

JR will avoid relegation and will get us back up to the SPL either 19/20 or 20/21 if we give him the chance.

He will then leave and move to better pastures. Job done.

I love how you think we will hang onto a manager for five years, they are lucky if they get five months!

[Lord Pityme]

We certainly know that bud!

if we could win a league game once every season just to get the feel of it would be nice.

[The Original 59er]

Saturday was certainly a new low point........... in a series of recent low points!

Why I feel that it is a new low, is that the quality of football on show was dismal in the extreme. The ball was in the air so much throughout the game that I thought the game should be called airball rather than the apparent description of where the 'foot' comes into play.

They may have been rabbits in the headlights, but if that is the case it's so early in the season to have that mentality and with the fayre on offer, all I can say was that both deserve nothing other than dismissal from the SPFL.

It pains me to say it as I honestly thought the players that had been signed this season had given us a better chance than the previous year, but that seems to be a real misjudgement on my part, to the point where I can say that watching paint drying is more fun that watching that team try and produce a performance, never mind a win................... and to think they want to charge us £20 plus travelling to have the privilege of turning up and supporting the team.

To all those on this site, you will know that through thick and thin I have supported this team for a long, long time. I can name you players and teams from the 60's that were poor, but not this poor. I don't think I will be alone in thinking that we seem like an outfit that has already thrown in the towel.  

[DougJamie]

Reality is what is obvious now. Years of on the cheap, years of sacking managers, years of poor recruiting .

You don't become poor overnight.....

Seriously I don't blame JR, I don't think he is a good manager, he might be one day. But IM had more of a CV

GS needed to right the wrongs, he needed a Yogi or even a Pressley, he needed a guy who is experienced , can make the most of what JR has

Simple we need a miracle ....... Or the stadium of 2021 will be our highest attendance in the next 5 years

 

Tell you now, with these players- Duffy, Houston would have them top 4 its that simple. Because we have shelved out thousands in comp, we cant afford to end contracts, we cant afford to buy. So McGinn and McLean money has just gone to pay off failure rather than build on success.

 

 

[MenstrieSaint]

One part of me thinks we should accept relegation , and work on developing a team capable of winning back to back promotions , and recruit accordingly , this might involve signing five or six part time players , trying to attract four or five  full time players capable of playing in the spl , and continue giving the young players a chance .

Jack Ross wasn,t my first choice as manager , but now that he,s in we should give him a chance , I do think he inherited an unbalanced squad , short in confidence and with very little option but to give youngsters a chance , with that in mind , I think its best he uses this season to identify what he needs , and allow him an end of season to get the right guys in , going after a few part time  players might allow our budget to stretch a bit further 

[DougJamie]

8 minutes ago, The Original 59er said:

Saturday was certainly a new low point........... in a series of recent low points!

Why I feel that it is a new low, is that the quality of football on show was dismal in the extreme. The ball was in the air so much throughout the game that I thought the game should be called airball rather than the apparent description of where the 'foot' comes into play.

They may have been rabbits in the headlights, but if that is the case it's so early in the season to have that mentality and with the fayre on offer, all I can say was that both deserve nothing other than dismissal from the SPFL.

It pains me to say it as I honestly thought the players that had been signed this season had given us a better chance than the previous year, but that seems to be a real misjudgement on my part, to the point where I can say that watching paint drying is more fun that watching that team try and produce a performance, never mind a win................... and to think they want to charge us £20 plus travelling to have the privilege of turning up and supporting the team.

To all those on this site, you will know that through thick and thin I have supported this team for a long, long time. I can name you players and teams from the 60's that were poor, but not this poor. I don't think I will be alone in thinking that we seem like an outfit that has already thrown in the towel.  

Bud, we are not good enough to throw in the towel......

What worries me is that GS seems to have as well. We need at least 6 new players in window and they need to be good,,,,, that's almost impossible as JR will be offloading players and they will not be to decent teams......

Crowd was at least 1400 down Sat, that's a lot of money, and they cant surely expect true supporters to keep playing to watch idiots who are not true professionals- thick and thin has limitations.... or recruits a young manager who immediately submitted to immense pressure. What was going thru GS's head, yes we need a manager for the future but our need is in the now. We need a really experienced head to steady then build...... even with these jessies as players......

 

[faraway saint]

6 minutes ago, MenstrieSaint said:

One part of me thinks we should accept relegation , and work on developing a team capable of winning back to back promotions , and recruit accordingly , this might involve signing five or six part time players , trying to attract four or five  full time players capable of playing in the spl , and continue giving the young players a chance .

Jack Ross wasn,t my first choice as manager , but now that he,s in we should give him a chance , I do think he inherited an unbalanced squad , short in confidence and with very little option but to give youngsters a chance , with that in mind , I think its best he uses this season to identify what he needs , and allow him an end of season to get the right guys in , going after a few part time  players might allow our budget to stretch a bit further 

This lunatic idea that dropping down a division was aired when we were in the top league. An absolute disaster of an idea on every count as we're in a shit position as it stands. Dropping down again would see us disappear from any sort of competitive standard for Years to come. No thanks, staying up is a must.

Edited November 21, 2016 by faraway saint

[irvine_buddie]

3 hours ago, Sonny said:

Deep crosses can be effective Drew if they are whipped in. But we float everything in which is the easiest thing in the world to defend against. And for his height and strength I do not think Sutton is particularly good in the air. He did get to a lot of balls on Saturday but rarely laid it off to anyone or got a header on target. I agree that all the players need to learn how to whip a ball in (oh for a Billy Stark) to give players like Sutton a chance.

Spot on, the only way a floated cross from deep (which was what the majority of ours were in the 2nd half on saturday and alot of other games) is effective is if it is absolutely perfectly placed over the defenders head onto the strikers.. otherwise it's either an easy headed clearence or if the striker gets to it he has to generate power and placement with a flicked header from 15-18 yards which is near impossible.

We had the same problem for years trying to supply Thommo and now it's the same for Sutton, we've got quick skillful wingers so lets get to byeline and whip a cross across goal or cut it back like the 2nd goal against Ayr.

Edited November 21, 2016 by irvine_buddie

[paisleysaint]

17 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

This lunatic idea that dropping down a division was aired when we were in the top league. An absolute disaster of an idea on every count as we're in a shit position as it stands. Dropping down again would see us disappear from any sort of competitive standard for Years to come. No thanks, staying up is a must.

Spot on it is sheer lunacy to accept that dropping down a division will suddenly turn us into title winners, we might end up struggling in that league too!

We have to try and do all that we can between now and the end of the season to ensure that we stay up and then look to build.

 

[Seaside Nipper]

I must admit even by St mirren standards our rate of decline is impressive.
We have fallen out the tree and we are not even managing to hit branches on the way down.
As for worst ever, it cannot be that far off.

[Seaside Nipper]

Saturday was certainly a new low point........... in a series of recent low points!

Why I feel that it is a new low, is that the quality of football on show was dismal in the extreme. The ball was in the air so much throughout the game that I thought the game should be called airball rather than the apparent description of where the 'foot' comes into play.

They may have been rabbits in the headlights, but if that is the case it's so early in the season to have that mentality and with the fayre on offer, all I can say was that both deserve nothing other than dismissal from the SPFL.

It pains me to say it as I honestly thought the players that had been signed this season had given us a better chance than the previous year, but that seems to be a real misjudgement on my part, to the point where I can say that watching paint drying is more fun that watching that team try and produce a performance, never mind a win................... and to think they want to charge us £20 plus travelling to have the privilege of turning up and supporting the team.

To all those on this site, you will know that through thick and thin I have supported this team for a long, long time. I can name you players and teams from the 60's that were poor, but not this poor. I don't think I will be alone in thinking that we seem like an outfit that has already thrown in the towel.  

^^^^^^^^^^^Yup, this. ^^^^^^

[div]

The league table doesn't make for easy vewing right now but I refuse to accept that our fate is a formality.

Need to get MacKenzie and Quinn fit and back into that team. I still believe we will turn this around. One win is all it will take.

Don't think there is really that much difference between most of the sides in the division. Morton are case in point in what some consistent team selection and confidence can do for a fairly average squad of players.

Just need to stick with them and believe it's going to turn our way.

[div]

13 minutes ago, paisleysaint said:

Spot on it is sheer lunacy to accept that dropping down a division will suddenly turn us into title winners, we might end up struggling in that league too!

We have to try and do all that we can between now and the end of the season to ensure that we stay up and then look to build.

 

Relegation to the third tier would be an absolute disaster for the club IMO.

[Lord Pityme]

As i said elsewhere, if we pick up next to, null point! Between now and the new year the manager needs to think of the club and walk, give us a chance to bring in an experienced gaffer who can shore us up, to stay up.

the concept of allowing Jack Dross to relegate us so he can create a squad in his likeness is commercial, and community suicide! it will cost a fair few people their jobs, and probably mean Ralston was no longer viable/realistic.

[flyingscot]

29 minutes ago, div said:

The league table doesn't make for easy vewing right now but I refuse to accept that our fate is a formality.

Need to get MacKenzie and Quinn fit and back into that team. I still believe we will turn this around. One win is all it will take.

Don't think there is really that much difference between most of the sides in the division. Morton are case in point in what some consistent team selection and confidence can do for a fairly average squad of players.

Just need to stick with them and believe it's going to turn our way.

I agree with this. I think we have improved since Ross came in. Problem is results haven't although I don't think we got what we deserved, especially against Dumbarton and Pars.

Last few games are blow with teams above us making us detached but we need to keep positive and get results quickly. We've seen teams before in a hopeless place in December save themselves. 

3 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

As i said elsewhere, if we pick up next to, null point! Between now and the new year the manager needs to think of the club and walk, give us a chance to bring in an experienced gaffer who can shore us up, to stay up.

the concept of allowing Jack Dross to relegate us so he can create a squad in his likeness is commercial, and community suicide! it will cost a fair few people their jobs, and probably mean Ralston was no longer viable/realistic.

Cause experienced managers always work out well....

We've backed the farm on Jack. I'm not sure any experienced manager would want us or be in a position to help us. We have to allow him a chance here of at least a transfer window!

Edited November 21, 2016 by flyingscot

[div]

I'm struggling to believe there are geniuinely fans out there who think we should sack Jack Ross.

A manager who hasn't signed a single player!

There is litte doubt, in my head anyway, that we are short in one or two areas. Hopefully January will allow the manager to wheel and deal his way towards addressing those issues.

 

[faraway saint]

24 minutes ago, div said:

I'm struggling to believe there are geniuinely fans out there who think we should sack Jack Ross.

A manager who hasn't signed a single player!

There is litte doubt, in my head anyway, that we are short in one or two areas. Hopefully January will allow the manager to wheel and deal his way towards addressing those issues.

 

I'm struggling to see that many who want the manager sacked, but there's a fine line between blind loyalty and reality.

Yes, he's not signed any player but he's also made no improvement in our points total.

If the "plan" was to see what happens in January it would have been just as well keeping Rae until closer to that time.

I hope Ross can improve things, and I don't mean the "oh, we're playing better" stuff,  I mean picking up points as we are slowly running out of time.

Oh, and this magical January window will be interesting, I seriously can't see any decent players wanting to jump aboard what could be a sinking ship.

 

[Drew]

4 hours ago, Sonny said:

Deep crosses can be effective Drew if they are whipped in. But we float everything in which is the easiest thing in the world to defend against. And for his height and strength I do not think Sutton is particularly good in the air. He did get to a lot of balls on Saturday but rarely laid it off to anyone or got a header on target. I agree that all the players need to learn how to whip a ball in (oh for a Billy Stark) to give players like Sutton a chance.

Aye, whipped in and arriving at chest height. Nightmare to defend.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Drew

[Drew]

4 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I'm struggling to see that many who want the manager sacked, but there's a fine line between blind loyalty and reality.

Yes, he's not signed any player but he's also made no improvement in our points total.

If the "plan" was to see what happens in January it would have been just as well keeping Rae until closer to that time.

I hope Ross can improve things, and I don't mean the "oh, we're playing better" stuff,  I mean picking up points as we are slowly running out of time.

Oh, and this magical January window will be interesting, I seriously can't see any decent players wanting to jump aboard what could be a sinking ship.

 

Any player joining will have a clear exit strategy in the event that we go down.

That said, I'm not brimming with confidence that the January window will bring much in the way of productive business. Fingers crossed, though.

[Kendo]

1 hour ago, div said:

The league table doesn't make for easy vewing right now but I refuse to accept that our fate is a formality.

Need to get MacKenzie and Quinn fit and back into that team. I still believe we will turn this around. One win is all it will take.

Don't think there is really that much difference between most of the sides in the division. Morton are case in point in what some consistent team selection and confidence can do for a fairly average squad of players.

Just need to stick with them and believe it's going to turn our way.

There lies the problem, we haven't won all season. Not sure why you think one win is all it takes unless I'm reading this wrong.

We need to get a good few wins and decent run going to get out of the hole that we're in. 

Both Dumbarton and Dunfermline won ugly against us by scoring and shutting up shop. We aren't equipped to do this. 

[Gordon Urquhart]

Obviously we are not down yet. However, should this happen already dwindling crowds will half again.
We would also be too wee for a seperate training complex at the other end of the town for potentially part time players. Instead of replacing the Ralston astro pitch move all St Mirren football activity to Greenhill Road. Create a new hybrid surface there and hand keys back to council as unsustainable.
Might even make the place feel like home for future players as it does not at present.

[div]

14 minutes ago, Kendo said:

There lies the problem, we haven't won all season. Not sure why you think one win is all it takes unless I'm reading this wrong.

We need to get a good few wins and decent run going to get out of the hole that we're in. 

Both Dumbarton and Dunfermline won ugly against us by scoring and shutting up shop. We aren't equipped to do this. 

We've won six out of seven cup games, so it's not strictly true to say we haven't won all season.

In the cup we've beaten Ayr (twice) and Championship leaders Hibernian away from home.

We're low on confidence, we're missing a couple of players and we're getting zero luck at all. It WILL turn.