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Accounts to May 31 2016


div

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2 hours ago, scottd said:

Why should their be more 'investment'?  The club has to cut its cloth according to what income is brought in.  It looks to me as if the old board treated water for the last couple of years and have now vacated the premises leaving behind a 'the money's ran out' type note for the new occupants.  

Its really quite simple. There are two ways to go going by loans to the club from the old board.   With less money coming into the club now than when the old board were pumping in a quarter of a million to tidy  things over    Clearly  there is going to be a short fall in the Championship for us . Gates down. Parachute payments gone. TV revenue gone. The short fall is going to be large. My point is ether you raise capital  or you down size. There is no middle  ground here so what is the choice. If we down size we will be relegated make no mistake spending a long time in the lower leagues. We might have a bright new stadium but the up keep in Ower leagues will be more than an old ram shackle  stadium.  Wake up and smell the coffee.There is going to be BIG decisions coming our way soon mark my words. 

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9 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Its really quite simple. There are two ways to go going by loans to the club from the old board.   With less money coming into the club now than when the old board were pumping in a quarter of a million to tidy  things over    Clearly  there is going to be a short fall in the Championship for us . Gates down. Parachute payments gone. TV revenue gone. The short fall is going to be large. My point is ether you raise capital  or you down size. There is no middle  ground here so what is the choice. If we down size we will be relegated make no mistake spending a long time in the lower leagues. We might have a bright new stadium but the up keep in Ower leagues will be more than an old ram shackle  stadium.  Wake up and smell the coffee.There is going to be BIG decisions coming our way soon mark my words. 

I wonder if Ayr or Dumbarton have a turnover of £2.1m? 

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3 hours ago, scottd said:

.  

Stewart a club on the up part time or otherwise is quite different from a club on the down. I pray we can turn things around. Unfortunately we are a club who seems to be sick and is yet to find the cure to recovery. I want the best for the club but there is no denying we are in a difficult position.  Hope I'm wrong.  

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2 hours ago, scottd said:

What amazes me is that some of our supporters are laying blame, if there is any to be apportioned, at the feet of the new board who have only been in place 4 months.  Although I shouldn't be too surprised when some want a new manager bagged after only 6 games.

Doesn't Tony-F's tenure as CEO bridge both regimes?

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45 minutes ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Stewart a club on the up part time or otherwise is quite different from a club on the down. I pray we can turn things around. Unfortunately we are a club who seems to be sick and is yet to find the cure to recovery. I want the best for the club but there is no denying we are in a difficult position.  Hope I'm wrong.  

So how will throwing money at it fix it Ian? It's decent leadership and management the club needs, not "investment".

Take a look at how much of the clubs money is being pissed away right now with ex managers still on the payroll, and nine first team players - all big earners - all sidelined for one reason or another. Throwing more money away isn't what is required. Making sure you get the best value for every £ you spend as a business, that's what works. The club has facilities and resources that are all being under utilised. According to the accounts there are 69 employees getting a wage from the club - how many of them are being utilised correctly and efficiently in the job they are doing? How many are doing a poor job representing the club - like the car park attendant who told my son to park at Asda Linwood for a match, or like the lady who picked up the phone to hear his complaint, who told him to e-mail it to her instead, and who has since continued to refuse to respond. How many of those members of staff are pissing off customers of the club through their inability to function in the job they are doing, or through broken promises made to customers who had every right to feel aggrieved.

The club comes from a massive town where it's ignored and pissed off the local residents for 20+ years now instead of being the focal point that rallies the community around the club. It's time for some proper leadership and management - unfortunately SMiSA members missed their opportunity to instigate a small change to the leadership of the club. 

 

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3 hours ago, div said:

 


Brian left for a bigger club operating in a far more lucrative market. Money talks at the end of the day.

Exactly. The man is on a career path and it was time to move on. Why would he have stayed in the face of a much better offer.  He was a big part of the decision making of the last board and he understood the financial situation in Scottish Football better than most.  I'm still at a loss to understand what Eaglesham is getting at given that he left 10 months before the accounts were published?

Edited by rabuddies
Typo
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7 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Its really quite simple. There are two ways to go going by loans to the club from the old board.   With less money coming into the club now than when the old board were pumping in a quarter of a million to tidy  things over    Clearly  there is going to be a short fall in the Championship for us . Gates down. Parachute payments gone. TV revenue gone. The short fall is going to be large. My point is ether you raise capital  or you down size. There is no middle  ground here so what is the choice. If we down size we will be relegated make no mistake spending a long time in the lower leagues. We might have a bright new stadium but the up keep in Ower leagues will be more than an old ram shackle  stadium.  Wake up and smell the coffee.There is going to be BIG decisions coming our way soon mark my words. 

And where is this investment coming from?  If someone is prepared to come forward and underwrite year on year losses with no detriment to the club then that would be great but until then we have to keep cutting the old cloth.

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2 hours ago, scottd said:

And where is this investment coming from?  If someone is prepared to come forward and underwrite year on year losses with no detriment to the club then that would be great but until then we have to keep cutting the old cloth.

I agree and that's a worry it's extremely important we stay in this league because if we don't we will be doomed to the lower depths of Scottish football for a good few years. 

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On 25/11/2016 at 1:48 PM, div said:

 

Pretty alarming that we had the previous board bail the club out to the tune of almost £250K. My big fear is now what will happen in the (almost inevitable) event that we need cash under the new structure? 


 

 

I've said it time and time again on here. 

This is the reason we should be saving the extra SMISA cash. It shouldn't be getting spent every 3 months. It should without doubt be getting put away for when we really need it. 

What will happen is Gordon will be forced to bail us out to protect his investment or the board will ask the SMISA members to dig into their pockets for an emergency loan. 

This is the reason I decided not to pledge any more than my £10 per month to SMISA. 

Edited by davidg
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11 hours ago, HSS said:

Am I missing something here?

Did we turn a loss of £247k into a profit of £30k?

Is that not awfy good?

The accounts on there own are fine, it's what's coming next that is concerning.

Our "Prize Money" for finishing last in the Premiership would have been around £750K. This is (obviously) paid at the end of the season as it is dependent on where you finish, although I guess some percentage of it might be paid in advance during the season as there is a baseline that it you can't finish any worse than last!

I'm not sure if that would have made it into the 2014-2015 accounts or into these ones as there is no breakdown of where the turnover comes from.

The parachute money in the first season we were down was £300K.

So that equates to just over £1M in "central" income before the clubs own income generated through sponsorship, gate receipts, commercial etc....

 

Last season we would have got around £200K prize money for finishing 6th in the Championship plus the last parachute payment of £125K.

So, income from prize money & parachute in 1st season after relegation, £1M. Income second season for the same, £325K.

A difference of almost £700K in income.

That would pretty much explain the dropping of the wage bill which went from £2m in 2015 to £1.25m in 2016.

 

On the upside last season we also sold John McGinn, we rented the stadium out to Celtic, and we sold out our home end to Rangers on the final day of the season. All extraordinary items which seem unlikely to happen this current season.

We also paid back £250K of directors loans though which we won't need to do this season. So perhaps these two more or less nett out.

 

We are now looking at financing major repairs at Ralston, fixing the USH, paying off yet another management team and replacing the Astroturf at Ralston.

Throw another wee relegation into the mix, and the potential for the JD Sports deal coming to an end and you can see why there is reasonable cause for concern!
 

 

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When SMiSA and GLS took over there were a number of supporters asking what is the plan once you have the club. They never answered that because I assume they never had a plan. They must have known the state of the financial side before buying if not I would be very concerned of the still being in existence in a few years time. Now is the time to tell us their plans or between now and January make a plan up... It's over to you GLS n SMiSA

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I've said it time and time again on here. 

This is the reason we should be saving the extra SMISA cash. It shouldn't be getting spent every 3 months. It should without doubt be getting put away for when we really need it. 

What will happen is Gordon will be forced to bail us out to protect his investment or the board will ask the SMISA members to dig into their pockets for an emergency loan. 

This is the reason I decided not to pledge any more than my £10 per month to SMISA. 



I'm happy for the £10 a week to go towards buying shares, and for the £2 to go towards things that improve the fans experience or things that help bring the community and the club closer together.

However, I don't want to see the extra £2 a month being used as bail out money for repairs and the likes as the club should be self sufficient.
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I've Tweeted our Director and Fans Representative to ask when it was identified the USH was broken, and if it was checked during due diligence. As a director I would expect him to have this information.... I look forward to a reply...



Oh I think you are supposed to email him. Apparently he can't be expected to use social media or web forums. Maybe you should copy and paste it into an email and hand deliver a letter to the stadium just to make sure he sees it :rolleyes:
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14 hours ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said:

Its really quite simple. There are two ways to go going by loans to the club from the old board.   With less money coming into the club now than when the old board were pumping in a quarter of a million to tidy  things over    Clearly  there is going to be a short fall in the Championship for us . Gates down. Parachute payments gone. TV revenue gone. The short fall is going to be large. My point is ether you raise capital  or you down size. There is no middle  ground here so what is the choice. If we down size we will be relegated make no mistake spending a long time in the lower leagues. We might have a bright new stadium but the up keep in Ower leagues will be more than an old ram shackle  stadium.  Wake up and smell the coffee.There is going to be BIG decisions coming our way soon mark my words. 

I agree. But ...there are options as yet unexplored in which to raise the capital Required which do not need to impact on the budget for the players. 

Raising capital to fund bringing players in might be of debatable value of course. That is a value judgement that the board need to make. 

Raising capital which is used to ensure that we can operate normally, bring in expected income when budgeted for and also increase revenue is quite a different argument.  One I favour.

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33 minutes ago, Tam M said:

 


I'm happy for the £10 a week to go towards buying shares, and for the £2 to go towards things that improve the fans experience or things that help bring the community and the club closer together.

However, I don't want to see the extra £2 a month being used as bail out money for repairs and the likes as the club should be self sufficient.

 

I agree we should be self sufficient but every business needs cash reserves or the run the risk of going down the tubes. 

We currently don't have any and continue to spend every penny that comes in. 

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I agree we should be self sufficient but every business needs cash reserves or the run the risk of going down the tubes. 

We currently don't have any and continue to spend every penny that comes in. 



I agree with that, but it's the club's responsibility to build a reserve up, not SMISA members. In my view anyway.
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The club does need to be self sufficient, it should only ever spend what it brings in.

The new board need to find a way to grow our revenue outside of the core football activities. That's the key for me.

Brian Caldwell was very good at doing that, albeit it wasn't always universally popular eg; The Celtic thing and the now crowded Car Park.

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I agree with that, but it's the club's responsibility to build a reserve up, not SMISA members. In my view anyway.


My view too. SMiSA does not own the club and its principal reason for existing is to buy out Gordon Scott to get ownership. Any money used to assist the business should be in the form of loans as other directors have done or done in return for equity. The membership certainly shouldn't be the cash cow being milked.



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It's owned by the club.

I would not be surprised if Hibs offer us a derisory amount to buy out the clause, especially if we get relegated.

Club needs to stay strong on that, every chance Hibs could sell him for a couple of £million if he continues to progress, they make it back to the top flight and he starts to feature for the full Scotland team on a regular basis. We would be due a third of that and IMO it's vital we don't cave on that.


I get clubs are businesses, but this 'shafting' of other clubs when they can sickens me and is only helping to drag football down. Again, I get this is only a possible projection, but Scottish football clubs should be looking after Scottish football, not helping to weaken the competition at every opportunity
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5 minutes ago, Stuart Dickson said:

 


My view too. SMiSA does not own the club and its principal reason for existing is to buy out Gordon Scott to get ownership. Any money used to assist the business should be in the form of loans as other directors have done or done in return for equity. The membership certainly shouldn't be the cash cow being milked.


 

 

I agree with this. 

I've never suggested handing over cash and not looking for it back.

 

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