Kyle McAllister

[Lord Pityme]

19 minutes ago, TopCat said:

If you were his agent, would you advise him to sign a new deal with us?

I certainly wouldn't.

Actually any good agent would sign a new deal as long as there are realistic release clauses i.e. Can talk to other clubs whom offer over £?????, and it was two years or less. Just because clubs are checking him out doesnt mean they will sign him. Thing is you would have to pay him more in a new contract because of the known interest.

sunderland have a pressing need to strengthen so may be our first-foot..? Whether they would loan him back to us is uncertain. He wouldn't walk into the first team, but they might want him available at a moments notice, and not tied up for the second half of the season.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Lord Pityme

[TopCat]

No , i`d advise him to go to the likes of Sunderland, etc, sign a deal. Sit on the bench ,not even be allowed to train with the first team lose all confidence before getting loaned out to Falkirk in two years time.
The lad is 17 , he has a great future in the game if he receives the right guidance and support for his age, ability and the stage his fledgling career is at. Staying at Saints for another couple of years will do him no harm at all.

Firstly, Sunderland or similar will be able to offer him more money than we can. Football is a short career, like all footballers he's one bad injury away from his career being finished.
I would also imagine top level English academy football is higher than the bottom end of the Scottish Championship.

I agree with your last point that he has a big future, but see no reason why he wouldn't think he could develop more in an English academy for a few years.

Look at Ryan Fraser as an example. He broke into Aberdeens team at a similar age, then he quickly moved to Bournemouth. He suffered similar criticism about moving from first team football to reserves

He disappeared into the English academy system for a couple of years and was then loaned out. Now he's back at Bournemouth, starting in the EPL and giving man of the match performances live on TV. Was he wrong to move to England when he was young? You think he should have stayed at Aberdeen? I bet he doesn't.

As a St Mirren fan of course I want McAllister to stay, but at the same time I'm realistic. Kyle has been known to English scouts for years and he will surely head down there soon. Why would he sign a new contract with us now? What does he gain from that? He's playing first team football and is in the shop window every week. It's good for us and good for him.

[bazil85]

30 minutes ago, TopCat said:

If you were his agent, would you advise him to sign a new deal with us?

I certainly wouldn't.

I would be 100% how many good young players disappear down south then end up back at this level in a few years.  They finish their playing career and they're out of football.  At 17 he has lots to learn, where better to do that than a club that's got great facilities, giving you first team football and where you're improving all the time?  If he's good enough teams will pay money for him.  Going down to a team like Forrest or Sunderland to play youth football again on more money will not be best for his development.  Even if they loan him out to similar sized clubs like us no guarantee he'll fit into that teams way of play the way he has under Ross. 

[TopCat]

I would be 100% how many good young players disappear down south then end up back at this level in a few years.  They finish their playing career and they're out of football.  At 17 he has lots to learn, where better to do that than a club that's got great facilities, giving you first team football and where you're improving all the time?  If he's good enough teams will pay money for him.  Going down to a team like Forrest or Sunderland to play youth football again on more money will not be best for his development.  Even if they loan him out to similar sized clubs like us no guarantee he'll fit into that teams way of play the way he has under Ross. 

Well like you said, if it doesn't work for him down south he will just come back here anyway. What's he got to lose? Not a lot, but he's got a huge amount to gain.

Surely playing against the top prospects in England every week would be better for his development than playing against the likes of Ayr United?

Maybe he will sign a new deal, maybe he won't. What I hope doesn't happen is that he refuses to sign a new deal and the fans start getting on his back. If he does move down south in a few weeks - which I think is quite likely - he will go with my best wishes anyway.

[Lord Pityme]

33 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Actually any good agent would sign a new deal as long as there are realistic release clauses i.e. Can talk to other clubs whom offer over £?????, and it was two years or less. Just because clubs are checking him out doesnt mean they will sign him. Thing is you would have to pay him more in a new contract because of the known interest.

Sunderland are one of the few, and perhaps only EPL side that plays youth in numbers, they signed a trio of Man U youngsters, play Pickford the Goalie, and Watmore midfielder whose injury they are looking to strengthen for.

if he is good enough, he will be old enough at Sunderland. Moyes is trying to build a young side with the right blend of pro's. Kyle would be crazy tonturn it down if they made an offer.

[antrin]

13 hours ago, antrin said:

It's so unlike shull and faraway to take a topic off post!

 

aye.

Naw.

Ping.

Pong.

 

9 hours ago, faraway saint said:

^^^^^^ 4 posts all off topic. So far up his own arse he can't see he's an absolute walloper.  Back onto ignore, you do make me laugh.......at you, clown.

Oh I like Kyle..................although we have too many Kyles so it could be any of them, is that off topic? 

Talking of wallopers - your post is UNDERLINING the point that my post had just made.   

That you are a twinset of wallopers.

He says ding - you say dong.

I don't believe my contributions to this trainwreck of a thread has damaged it.

 

The post  I responded to - is not about McAllister's footballing skills or potential growth as a St Mirren player - nor is it about any other team member.

It is about shull hilariously suggesting that JJ has a new man-love hero.  It's more shite suited to General Nonsense.

shull cries out for a Mod then gets huffy when self-moderation is suggested.   Sigh...

BuddieinEK made a well-meaning but futile interception to change back to the subject but you and shull - with a little help from me - soon got it back on subject...

ping pong aye naw...

 

Here to help. 

 

ETA

You can't put me 'back on Ignore', smokie - you've have never had me on Ignore.  You'd be so missing me awready...

 

Edited December 12, 2016 by antrin

[kevo_smfc]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

Sunderland are one of the few, and perhaps only EPL side that plays youth in numbers, they signed a trio of Man U youngsters, play Pickford the Goalie, and Watmore midfielder whose injury they are looking to strengthen for.

if he is good enough, he will be old enough at Sunderland. Moyes is trying to build a young side with the right blend of pro's. Kyle would be crazy tonturn it down if they made an offer.

Sunderland are not in the best of positions to play an untried youngster at their level, with relegation looming. Realistically Moyes will be given cash to spend on experienced pros or at least players with a bit of first team action at the top level. He would be hung out to dry if he spent a chunk of money on a youth player whilst they are currently in trouble.

There will be a development fee regardless if he is out of contract in the summer or not. The last youngster to take the leap around McAllisters age was Bo Bo O'Brien and look where his career path took him for leaving at such an early stage in his career and kicking about the reserves at Blackburn.

I'm pretty sure that the board have him on a list of priorities as the next youngster tied down. 

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, TopCat said:

Well like you said, if it doesn't work for him down south he will just come back here anyway. What's he got to lose? Not a lot, but he's got a huge amount to gain.

Surely playing against the top prospects in England every week would be better for his development than playing against the likes of Ayr United?

Maybe he will sign a new deal, maybe he won't. What I hope doesn't happen is that he refuses to sign a new deal and the fans start getting on his back. If he does move down south in a few weeks - which I think is quite likely - he will go with my best wishes anyway.

What's he got to lose? / bigger deal possibly, his progression getting stunted like so many before him because he's went from a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a massive pond. The way this plays out more often than not is the player disappears and plays low level football for rest of their career. Of course there is exceptions. 

Thing about this is there is no easy right answer. Personally though I think signing a new contract with a team like st Mirren is the right choice for following reasons. 

Could get bad injured tomorrow and all interest gets dropped 

if he's good enough even under a new contract teams will come in for him. Let's be honest for a team like Sunderland is £100K and £1 million really that big a difference?

new contract will get him more money regardless of if he keeps performing. 

First team football is better than not playing regularly at any level (senior under 21/18) big teams down south he may not even make development squad 

he's a great player for us but at 17 he is relatively lightweight. If he doesn't fit into a playing system or gets bullied off the ball by someone bigger and stronger on a regular basis could destroy the confidence that must be running through his veins right now. 

At 17 why chase the first semi decent offers to come through. Surely him and his agent must know if he stays fit and develops this is hardly a bad place to be and the interest will continue regardless

our midfield have gelled so well together and helping him develop. Why risk going somewhere else where that might not happen for a quick buck. 

Loyalty to a team that's supported you since you were 4. 

[Stu]

2 hours ago, div said:

Hopefully we can get him signed up soon, not sure when his current deal expires but I've a feeling it is next summer.

Mallan is signed up to Summer 2018, Morgan and Magennis to Summer 2019. I'd hope we could get McAllister to commit to a 2019 deal too.

Are you sure about Morgan? Official site says 2018.

21 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

What's he got to lose? / bigger deal possibly, his progression getting stunted like so many before him because he's went from a big fish in a small pond to a small fish in a massive pond. The way this plays out more often than not is the player disappears and plays low level football for rest of their career. Of course there is exceptions. 

Thing about this is there is no easy right answer. Personally though I think signing a new contract with a team like st Mirren is the right choice for following reasons. 

Could get bad injured tomorrow and all interest gets dropped 

if he's good enough even under a new contract teams will come in for him. Let's be honest for a team like Sunderland is £100K and £1 million really that big a difference?

new contract will get him more money regardless of if he keeps performing. 

First team football is better than not playing regularly at any level (senior under 21/18) big teams down south he may not even make development squad 

he's a great player for us but at 17 he is relatively lightweight. If he doesn't fit into a playing system or gets bullied off the ball by someone bigger and stronger on a regular basis could destroy the confidence that must be running through his veins right now. 

At 17 why chase the first semi decent offers to come through. Surely him and his agent must know if he stays fit and develops this is hardly a bad place to be and the interest will continue regardless

our midfield have gelled so well together and helping him develop. Why risk going somewhere else where that might not happen for a quick buck. 

Loyalty to a team that's supported you since you were 4. 

He hasn't been with us that long - he was at Rangers who ditched him, he went back to boys' club football then came to us. Not sure how long we've had him. Think Morgan and Baird (and possibly another one) were at Rangers too when they were younger.

I agree with your approach with McAllister - from a footballing perspective he'd be better staying put. From a financial perspective he'd be better going, even if it means becoming the next Scott Allan.

Wouldn't surprise me if the whole thing was just his agent feeding stuff to the papers in a bid to get him a better contract.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Stu

[bazil85]

14 minutes ago, Stu said:

Are you sure about Morgan? Official site says 2018.

He hasn't been with us that long - he was at Rangers who ditched him, he went back to boys' club football then came to us. Not sure how long we've had him. Think Morgan and Baird (and possibly another one) were at Rangers too when they were younger.

I agree with your approach with McAllister - from a footballing perspective he'd be better staying put. From a financial perspective he'd be better going, even if it means becoming the next Scott Allan.

Wouldn't surprise me if the whole thing was just his agent feeding stuff to the papers in a bid to get him a better contract.

Really? I'm sure he'd been there pretty much his whole life.  Second hand information but one of my friends was saying he was talking to Fitzy about length of time he'd been here on Saturday.  

I hope he stays and keeps a level head. Think about a lot of young players the money goes to their heads then when they reach a certain age they end up skint and having to look at careers outside football.  If he does go somewhere best of luck to him and at least we'll get something for him, even if it is just compensation. 

 

[div]

My mistake, Morgan is 2018. I will go stand in the corner.

[faraway saint]

1 hour ago, antrin said:

 

Talking of wallopers - your post is UNDERLINING the point that my post had just made.   

That you are a twinset of wallopers.

He says ding - you say dong.

I don't believe my contributions to this trainwreck of a thread has damaged it.

 

The post  I responded to - is not about McAllister's footballing skills or potential growth as a St Mirren player - nor is it about any other team member.

It is about shull hilariously suggesting that JJ has a new man-love hero.  It's more shite suited to General Nonsense.

shull cries out for a Mod then gets huffy when self-moderation is suggested.   Sigh...

BuddieinEK made a well-meaning but futile interception to change back to the subject but you and shull - with a little help from me - soon got it back on subject...

ping pong aye naw...

 

Here to help. 

 

ETA

You can't put me 'back on Ignore', smokie - you've have never had me on Ignore.  You'd be so missing me awready...

 

^^^^^^^ Close to tears.

[Bud the Baker]

Big clubs seem to be almost as willing to take a punt on emerging players like McAllister with little or no experience rather than old lags like Mallan who at nearly 21 and with approaching 100 games for Saints under his belt is looking positively ancient. That's the crazy world of modern football...............

[Stu]

40 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Really? I'm sure he'd been there pretty much his whole life.  Second hand information but one of my friends was saying he was talking to Fitzy about length of time he'd been here on Saturday.  

I hope he stays and keeps a level head. Think about a lot of young players the money goes to their heads then when they reach a certain age they end up skint and having to look at careers outside football.  If he does go somewhere best of luck to him and at least we'll get something for him, even if it is just compensation. 

 

Aye, he was being interviewed after the Spartans game and said he'd been at Rangers but let go because of injury. He seemingly has something wrong with his groin that he'll have for the rest of his life so needs to do stretches every morning.

Maybe someone was repeating my trick of getting the two Kyles mixed up?

16 minutes ago, div said:

My mistake, Morgan is 2018. I will go stand in the corner.

I'm not 100 per cent convinced the bits on the OS are right though - the Facebook and Twitter posts announcing the contract says 2019.

[Lord Pityme]

1 hour ago, kevo_smfc said:

Sunderland are not in the best of positions to play an untried youngster at their level, with relegation looming. Realistically Moyes will be given cash to spend on experienced pros or at least players with a bit of first team action at the top level. He would be hung out to dry if he spent a chunk of money on a youth player whilst they are currently in trouble.

There will be a development fee regardless if he is out of contract in the summer or not. The last youngster to take the leap around McAllisters age was Bo Bo O'Brien and look where his career path took him for leaving at such an early stage in his career and kicking about the reserves at Blackburn.

I'm pretty sure that the board have him on a list of priorities as the next youngster tied down. 

Like I said unlikely if sunderland did come in for him he would go straight into the first team squad, however if they sign an experienced pro on loan for the rest of the season, then Mcallister could be a good youngster for them to bring in and develop whilst they work out if the loanee is worth keeping beyond the summer.

if Moyes thinks McCallister is up to it then he will invest in the future, he has already done so. It is obviously the path sunderland have set as the recruitment/development structure they need. Cant keep buying a series of dud europeans that go within a year or so for less thsn they cost.

[Svard svard]

The fact they could get him for probably 50k is absolute pocket change to most English clubs.

There is no risk in their eyes..

[bazil85]

26 minutes ago, Svard svard said:

The fact they could get him for probably 50k is absolute pocket change to most English clubs.

There is no risk in their eyes..

Same if it was half a million, £1 million.  It's complete pennies even to most English Championship clubs.  Would be saying to Mcallister is if there is interest people will come in for you regards of your contract status.  I think it would be a sensible move for him to sign down for a couple years.  Still think this would be a much better place for him to develop than English youth teams. Especially looking at how much he's enjoying Ross's style of play and the way our midfield are playing together currently.  Here's hoping. 

[div]

According to young Kyle Gunn McAllister has a year left, so I am assuming to Summer 2018.

The club will almost certainly have started talks aimed at extending that and improving his terms given he's now an established first team player.

Hopefully he will sign and continue his development path with us before moving on, for what will hopefully be a sizeable fee.

[div]

58 minutes ago, Svard svard said:

The fact they could get him for probably 50k is absolute pocket change to most English clubs.

There is no risk in their eyes..

The club received bids for McAllister even before he had kicked a ball in the first team. He's the most valuable asset we have, other than the third of John McGinn we own!

Zero chance the club would trade for £50K. His tribunal development fee alone will be a fair chunk bigger than that. McGinn's was £200K.

[guinness]

He is nowhere near good enough for EPL. He would be lucky to get in youth side. Stay a year or so more and go to championship as a first team player and see where it goes from there. Has to develop physically before he is ready for down south.

[Svard svard]

2 hours ago, div said:

The club received bids for McAllister even before he had kicked a ball in the first team. He's the most valuable asset we have, other than the third of John McGinn we own!

Zero chance the club would trade for £50K. His tribunal development fee alone will be a fair chunk bigger than that. McGinn's was £200K.

Only if he moves to a Scottish team we are entitled to full compo i thought .

Hence septic got Dembele for pennies and the blue bigots have used it to their advantage.

[Stu]

Found a match report showing McAllister was still at Rangers in 2012. He's been with us for at most four-and-a-half years - nearer three-and-a-half if the stuff he says about going back to boys' club level for a year is true.

Probably not much compensation - and I've a horrible feeling the way these things work means Rangers would get a chunk too.

[irvine_buddie]

11 hours ago, Stu said:

Found a match report showing McAllister was still at Rangers in 2012. He's been with us for at most four-and-a-half years - nearer three-and-a-half if the stuff he says about going back to boys' club level for a year is true.

Probably not much compensation - and I've a horrible feeling the way these things work means Rangers would get a chunk too.

Depends which Rangers he played for, didn't Dundee Utd refuse to pay compensation for Telfer as the Rangers he'd played for were deceased in 2012.

Edited December 13, 2016 by irvine_buddie

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, irvine_buddie said:

Depends which Rangers he played for, didn't Dundee Utd refuse to pay compensation for Telfer as the Rangers he'd played for were deceased in 2012.

Yep, my understanding is Rangers won't get a penny because they don't exist anymore.  New club aren't entitled to any compensation, they're not the same team.

[Stuart Dickson]

If Sunderland are interested in him he'd have to be bonkers to stay at St Mirren. Yes he might well dissappear into one of the best youth set ups in English Football but at the moment he's disappearing into the abyss of lower league Scottish football.

Top English clubs will take a punt on raw young talent. What they won't do, as St Mirren have seen with McGinn and McLean, is wait till they are 20 something and still playing for a low grade team in poor quality league.