The battle to avoid relegation

[Bud the Baker]

4 hours ago, Kendo said:

Do you really think we're sitting about twiddling our thumbs wasting time?

I would doubt anyone thinks we're not trying but the reality is that that once again we seem less effective than our rivals. Going into what every agrees is a must win game for us on Saturday we are two players down (albeit both of them were already out of the first team picture) with our confirmed signing of the window still in transit.  

*****************************

A very different scenario to the one hinted at last month at the AGM - anything to get out of that meeting without being tarred & feathered, eh Gordon? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Bud the Baker

[norrie82]

I don't fancy us on Saturday 

[stlucifer]

47 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

I would doubt anyone thinks we're not trying but the reality is that that once again we seem less effective than our rivals. Going into what every agrees is a must win game for us on Saturday we are two players down (albeit both of them were already out of the first team picture) with our confirmed signing of the window still in transit.  

*****************************

A very different scenario to the one hinted at last month at the AGM - anything to get out of that meeting without being tarred & feathered, eh Gordon? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From the outside, and perhaps from within, we're dead in the water. I would imagine it is a much harder sell than the other teams around us

[Bud the Baker]

45 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

From the outside, and perhaps from within, we're dead in the water. I would imagine it is a much harder sell than the other teams around us

That might well be so but it doesn't change the fact that our squad for Saturday's game is weaker than when we beat QotS last month while theirs is stronger - I see now they've added John Rankin to their squad on an eighteen month deal. I know we're restricted to players out of favour at their present clubs but like I said the gossip from the AGM was that we had one player already agreed and another pretty much done. I still think it's a poor show not to have a new face available for what is after all a must win game. 

 

I reckon we're down to hoping that one of the p/t teams exploding over the second half of the season.

[munoz]

5 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

That might well be so but it doesn't change the fact that our squad for Saturday's game is weaker than when we beat QotS last month while theirs is stronger - I see now they've added John Rankin to their squad on an eighteen month deal. I know we're restricted to players out of favour at their present clubs but like I said the gossip from the AGM was that we had one player already agreed and another pretty much done. I still think it's a poor show not to have a new face available for what is after all a must win game. 

 

I reckon we're down to hoping that one of the p/t teams exploding over the second half of the season.

I can half understand the panic given our precarious position , but ffs we're only 5 days into the window . 

I'd rather we try and get the right type of player in , instead of the 1st that comes along . I'm still hopeful this will happen .

[JJ McG]

1 hour ago, norrie82 said:

I don't fancy us on Saturday 

Either do I sadly, that will of felt like a defeat against Morton and confidence will be very low amongst the players.

 

[Bud the Baker]

15 minutes ago, munoz said:

I can half understand the panic given our precarious position , but ffs we're only 5 days into the window . 

I'd rather we try and get the right type of player in , instead of the 1st that comes along . I'm still hopeful this will happen .

What is the right type of player? It's all very well saying that we're should wait for the right type of player to come along but like I said we're looking at players out of favour at their present clubs - we're not in control of the situation. Players available will be known to JR & TF and it's up to JR to decide who he wants and TF to complete the deals. All we can then do is hope is that JR can make a silk purse out of one of these sow's ears.

******************* 

Like I said the information that came out at the AGM on Dec. 19 was

Quote

Yes, he definitely said he already had a deal in place for a CM. He's hoping for an answer from the left back tomorrow.

and yet we go into tomorrow's must win game with neither (extremely puzzled as to why Storie won't feature). More often than not it takes a player a few games to fully integrate into a team so unless we get lucky the longer we wait the less our chances of avoiding relegation are going to be. Carpe Diem!

[Lord Pityme]

14 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

What is the right type of player? It's all very well saying that we're should wait for the right type of player to come along but like I said we're looking at players out of favour at their present clubs - we're not in control of the situation. Players available will be known to JR & TF and it's up to JR to decide who he wants and TF to complete the deals. All we can then do is hope is that JR can make a silk purse out of one of these sow's ears.

******************* 

Like I said the information that came out at the AGM on Dec. 19 was

and yet we go into tomorrow's must win game with neither (extremely puzzled as to why Storie won't feature). More often than not it takes a player a few games to fully integrate into a team so unless we get lucky the longer we wait the less our chances of avoiding relegation are going to be. Carpe Diem!

Whit ye Carping aboot noo?

[Hendo]

2 hours ago, norrie82 said:

I don't fancy us on Saturday 

Neither do I. Think we'll be hammered 5-0, and after the last goal Webster and McKenzie will be sent off for fighting over whose fault it was.

Then, just to round off the day, we'll be deducted 25 points for fielding Kyle Hutton earlier in the season, as SPFL rules state that only proper footballers are eligible to play.

We're doomed.

[windae cleaner]

3 hours ago, Bud the Baker said:

I would doubt anyone thinks we're not trying but the reality is that that once again we seem less effective than our rivals. Going into what every agrees is a must win game for us on Saturday we are two players down (albeit both of them were already out of the first team picture) with our confirmed signing of the window still in transit.  

*****************************

A very different scenario to the one hinted at last month at the AGM - anything to get out of that meeting without being tarred & feathered, eh Gordon? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Got to agree

It looks like AGAIN

Our intended targets have knock us back

Storie is a strange one

Arranged to come to us a while ago yet not available and will take a few weeks to get fitness up

We haven't got time and need every point going

Queens have already got 3 new players in to stop their slide

Not good enough and imo signs of the white flag going up

[pozbaird]

2 minutes ago, Hendo said:

Neither do I. Think we'll be hammered 5-0, and after the last goal Webster and McKenzie will be sent off for fighting over whose fault it was.

Then, just to round off the day, we'll be deducted 25 points for fielding Kyle Hutton earlier in the season, as SPFL rules state that only proper footballers are eligible to play.

We're doomed.

 

Yeah, but we're playing better. Boo boy. 

[Dibbles old paperboy]

12 hours ago, Soctty said:

Win games and we can stay up. Win on Saturday and things will look brighter, and then we can look to the next game.

 

We've taken 8 points from our last 5 games. That kind of form can keep us up. It would see us finish the season with 39 points, which has been enough for safety in 5 of the last 6 seasons, and a play off spot in the other one.

 

Last 5 games have included games against those currently in 2nd, 3rd and 5th place, as well as two strugglers who we beat.

Actually we are 7th out of 10 in a form league based on the last 6 games (and before Dunfermline beat Raith). Dumbarton (3 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat) were 3rd and on the same form as Hibs & Dundee United, Dunfermline were 5th (2 wins, 3 draws, 1 defeat)... now that Dunfermline have beaten Raith Rovers their last 6 forms is now (3 wins and 3 draws).

Of the teams below us in the form league, we made up 3 points on Ayr United in 6 games and now find ourselves 7 points behind them with 17 games left. If our for continues and Ayr's poor form where they haven't won in the last 10 leagues it is possible we could just overtake them before the end of the season.

9th placed Raith Rovers still sit 13 points ahead of us despite not winning since October.

10th placed Queen of the South still sit 9 points, 9 goals and 3 places ahead of us despite a run of 7 defeats and 3 draws in 10 league games.

Despite the face we have improved results and performances, we are not picking up enough points at the moment to feel assured we are showing the kind of form that can keep us up. As well as taking 8 points from our last 5 games, we've also taken 8 points from our last 6 games and 8 points from our last 10 games. Even if we just take the 6 game average where we take 50% of the points available from our last 17 games we are looking at taking 25 or 26 points, finishing on 37 or 38 points. Ayr would only need 18 or 19 points from their final games to match or better our points tally - their current average at the moment whereas we need a massive improvement on our first half of the season average to be in with a shout of overtaking them.

[Soctty]

Actually we are 7th out of 10 in a form league based on the last 6 games (and before Dunfermline beat Raith). Dumbarton (3 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat) were 3rd and on the same form as Hibs & Dundee United, Dunfermline were 5th (2 wins, 3 draws, 1 defeat)... now that Dunfermline have beaten Raith Rovers their last 6 forms is now (3 wins and 3 draws).
Of the teams below us in the form league, we made up 3 points on Ayr United in 6 games and now find ourselves 7 points behind them with 17 games left. If our for continues and Ayr's poor form where they haven't won in the last 10 leagues it is possible we could just overtake them before the end of the season.
9th placed Raith Rovers still sit 13 points ahead of us despite not winning since October.
10th placed Queen of the South still sit 9 points, 9 goals and 3 places ahead of us despite a run of 7 defeats and 3 draws in 10 league games.
Despite the face we have improved results and performances, we are not picking up enough points at the moment to feel assured we are showing the kind of form that can keep us up. As well as taking 8 points from our last 5 games, we've also taken 8 points from our last 6 games and 8 points from our last 10 games. Even if we just take the 6 game average where we take 50% of the points available from our last 17 games we are looking at taking 25 or 26 points, finishing on 37 or 38 points. Ayr would only need 18 or 19 points from their final games to match or better our points tally - their current average at the moment whereas we need a massive improvement on our first half of the season average to be in with a shout of overtaking them.

If we kept up recent form we'd be very likely to stay up. 39 points almost certain to see to that.

Points we win will be lost to our opponents. It's still very much in our hands.

[civilsaint]

wrong thread

Edited January 6, 2017 by civilsaint

[Dibbles old paperboy]

1 minute ago, Soctty said:

 

If we kept up recent form we'd be very likely to stay up. 39 points almost certain to see to that.

Points we win will be lost to our opponents. It's still very much in our hands.

 

You only get us reaching a 39 point total is you say we repeat our form over the last 5 games instead of the last 6 games. In the last couple of months you could say we have had some great chances to help ourselves, home games against Dunfermline, Dumbarton and Ayr (the 3 teams who were closest to us), we took 1 point out of 9 from those fixtures and that was against 10 men, we also had Morton at home and had 30 minutes against 10 men and again only took 1 point.

Ayr's form has slumped in the last couple of months but they are still averaging 1 point per game and on course to finish on 36 points.

[oaksoft]

7 minutes ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

You only get us reaching a 39 point total is you say we repeat our form over the last 5 games instead of the last 6 games. In the last couple of months you could say we have had some great chances to help ourselves, home games against Dunfermline, Dumbarton and Ayr (the 3 teams who were closest to us), we took 1 point out of 9 from those fixtures and that was against 10 men, we also had Morton at home and had 30 minutes against 10 men and again only took 1 point.

Ayr's form has slumped in the last couple of months but they are still averaging 1 point per game and on course to finish on 36 points.

Taking the last 5 games is as valid as taking the last 6. None of it matters.  Its what we do from here which will define our future.

The players need to forget the past, focus on winning our own games one at a time and forgetting what every other team is doing. If we cant win our own games we are f**ked regardless of what any other team does. focussing on anyone else or bleating about our plight or bleating about past results is a negative, destructive waste of time, morale and energy. It really is astonishing that this needs to be said TBH.

Edited January 6, 2017 by oaksoft

[Dibbles old paperboy]

9 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Taking the last 5 games is as valid as taking the last 6. None of it matter. Its what we do from here which will define our future.

You are welcome to say that for as long as it is mathematically possible to remain in the Championship. While its true the league finishes in May and we have almost half a season left to move to a position of safety. The fact we lost 6 pointers at home to Dunfermline and Dumbarton has a lot to do with why we now find ourselves 9 points behind both teams, or our inability to beat teams with 10 men at home in our last 2 league games. If we were sitting around the 20 point mark rather than just above the 10 point mark of course it would be natural to be more confident about avoiding relegation.

[oaksoft]

3 hours ago, Dibbles old paperboy said:

You are welcome to say that for as long as it is mathematically possible to remain in the Championship. While its true the league finishes in May and we have almost half a season left to move to a position of safety. The fact we lost 6 pointers at home to Dunfermline and Dumbarton has a lot to do with why we now find ourselves 9 points behind both teams, or our inability to beat teams with 10 men at home in our last 2 league games. If we were sitting around the 20 point mark rather than just above the 10 point mark of course it would be natural to be more confident about avoiding relegation.

But the point is that the players need to have confidence now.

The players need to forget about why we are in this position and embrace the challenge they face right now.

If the players are wasting time and energy worrying about anything other than the team in front of them in each match then all is probably lost. This is a psychological battle now as much as anything else.

How does this affect the fans? Dont lose faith or show nerves if we are hanging on for a win. The players sense that and it makes them nervous. There isnt much fans can do but bleating about it as we have done in our droves for MONTHS now clearly is detrimental to the team.

[faraway saint]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

But the point is that the players need to have confidence now.

The players need to forget about why we are in this position and embrace the challenge they face right now.

If the players are wasting time and energy worrying about anything other than the team in front of them in each match then all is probably lost. This is a psychological battle now as much as anything else.

How does this affect the fans? Dont lose faith or show nerves if we are hanging on for a win. The players sense that and it makes them nervous. There isnt much fans can do but bleating about it as we have done in our droves for MONTHS now clearly is detrimental to the team.

I prefer to think it's more to do with how good the players are at playing football.

[pod]

32 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

I prefer to think it's more to do with how good the players are at playing football.

Think we know the answer to that one.

[White Knight]

Actually we are 7th out of 10 in a form league based on the last 6 games (and before Dunfermline beat Raith). Dumbarton (3 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat) were 3rd and on the same form as Hibs & Dundee United, Dunfermline were 5th (2 wins, 3 draws, 1 defeat) ........ we need a massive improvement on our first half of the season average to be in with a shout of overtaking them.

Wow, how many spreadsheets did you use for all of that?  The problem is that you didn't take into account the impact of weather on the day of the last 6 matches at each one of those contests, nor did you assess the impact of ground conditions on the day, nor whether a particular match was on natural turf or an artificial surface, etc.  My point is that you're not comparing apples with apples in this kind of analysis.  NONE of this matters.  The last 5 or 6 St Mirren matches are arguably important to measure mindset and fitness.  That's all. At this level, and at this point of the season, a positive outlook must be paramount.  Positive results will be carried into the next game.  As the teams line up, they MUST believe they will get a positive results.  Performances over the last few games will influence the strength of that belief.  Playing good football -- doing what they do best -- fosters that belief as well.  That is where Ross is far better than Rae.  The players are going about their business with more belief and a positive attitude.  Under Rae, there was fear in their eyes everytime they touched the ball.  Results will come -- game by game.  Looking at how all the other teams have faired over the last gazillion matches means nothing.

[Soctty]

You only get us reaching a 39 point total is you say we repeat our form over the last 5 games instead of the last 6 games. In the last couple of months you could say we have had some great chances to help ourselves, home games against Dunfermline, Dumbarton and Ayr (the 3 teams who were closest to us), we took 1 point out of 9 from those fixtures and that was against 10 men, we also had Morton at home and had 30 minutes against 10 men and again only took 1 point.
Ayr's form has slumped in the last couple of months but they are still averaging 1 point per game and on course to finish on 36 points.

Of course my projection is based on our recent form - that's the whole point! [emoji6]

If Ayr finish on 36 we finish above them on our recent form.

Suppose I could be totally negative instead, but isn't there enough negativity on the forum?

Win tomorrow and things look brighter.

[faraway saint]

26 minutes ago, Soctty said:

Of course my projection is based on our recent form - that's the whole point!

If Ayr finish on 36 we finish above them on our recent form.

Suppose I could be totally negative instead, but isn't there enough negativity on the forum?

Win tomorrow and things look brighter.

But recent form, or any form for that matter, doesn't have anything to do with anything, seemingly?

[Soctty]

But recent form, or any form for that matter, doesn't have anything to do with anything, seemingly?

Perhaps in your opinion.

Stay negative! [emoji106]

[faraway saint]

Just now, Soctty said:

 

Perhaps in your opinion.

Stay negative!

 

Aye, and you stay in...................where exactly are lunatics staying now?