Guest TPAFKATS Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 I salute your optimism. Ross hasn't cleared out all of Rae's hopeless signing. Many of the players going out the door, or in Mallan's case almost going out the door, were some of our better players in the squad: Naismith moved up a league to SPL midtable team Ross County, Scott Gallacher moved to Hibs, Shankland moved to 3rd placed Morton, Ryan Hardie went to Raith Rovers, Calum Gallacher went to Dumbarton and Kyle McAllister was sold for £200-500k to Derby County. Of Rae's hopeless signings only Kyle Hutton has dropped down a league to Airdrie until the summer (who might pass us on our way down) and Tom Walsh is without a club after leaving Rangers. Most of Rae's "hopeless signings" have signed elsewhere at our level or better. Storie may have a bit of dig about him but his distribution can be very hit and miss - not much point in winning the ball is a smashing tackle if you give it away again at your first attempt to pass. O 'Brien looks a bit raw and prone to rushes of blood to the head, Harry Davis didn't look brilliant against Nade on Saturday or for Dumbarton's first goal, Fjelde isn't a full back but still got 2 starts ahead of Demerteriou who is... time will tell whether Jack Ross has unearthed 11 bargain basement gems out of 11 signings in January. If 5 or 6 work out pretty well and he can utilise them alongside guys who did OK before the transfer window (Baird, MacKenzie, Magennis, Sutton and possibly Morgan and Mallan at a stretch) then we might pick up more points in the next 10 games than in the previous 10. I really don't mind if they arent bargain basement gems, I just want them to follow enough to keep us up before they move on again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Supporter Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 6 hours ago, Lord Pityme said: Entitled to your opinion, it is an actual, as opposed to a alternative Fact that Rae kept us up with considerably less time and only a few changes last season, whilst Ross took Alloa down with a whimper. We hope his career achievements to date will show a positive this season! Glad you said that about Alex RAE . He kept up a bad team last year . I fully understand that he played a type of football not pleasant to watch but we'd have been better off keeping him until the end of this season . GS took a massive gamp,e and he has to admit it back fired Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Glad you said that about Alex RAE . He kept up a bad team last year . I fully understand that he played a type of football not pleasant to watch but we'd have been better off keeping him until the end of this season . GS took a massive gamp,e and he has to admit it back fired The football versus Ayr in the League Cup was awful, near non-existent vs Ayr at Somerset, tragic vs Morton at home and nothing short of shite versus Raith at Kirkcaldy. None of that, NONE, backs up the misgiven belief that we'd have been better keeping him. He constantly went on about earning your right to play, but then we'd get the ball and not have a frigging clue what to do with it. He talked about bringing in a player wide left, but brought in Walsh who viewed the final 30 yards of the left wing as if it was a minefield. Every damned week he spoke of Mallan needing to dig and battle, but we all know that's not Stevie's game. He continued with Webster even though he was quite frankly done even when he was at Coventry. Who knows what happened over the close season, but it was obvious that the players either weren't trying, weren't being coached or didn't enjoy going to their work anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Supporter Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, TsuMirren said: The football versus Ayr in the League Cup was awful, near non-existent vs Ayr at Somerset, tragic vs Morton at home and nothing short of shite versus Raith at Kirkcaldy. None of that, NONE, backs up the misgiven belief that we'd have been better keeping him. He constantly went on about earning your right to play, but then we'd get the ball and not have a frigging clue what to do with it. He talked about bringing in a player wide left, but brought in Walsh who viewed the final 30 yards of the left wing as if it was a minefield. Every damned week he spoke of Mallan needing to dig and battle, but we all know that's not Stevie's game. He continued with Webster even though he was quite frankly done even when he was at Coventry. Who knows what happened over the close season, but it was obvious that the players either weren't trying, weren't being coached or didn't enjoy going to their work anymore. I honestly do not disagree with most of what you say . IVE said before he kept us up last year and we were a poor side . If he'd been given the sack at the end of lat year I'd have been happy to see JR. Come in then . However when the decision was made to keep RAE then it was complete madness to show him the door after 6 games . As for the players turning up to enjoy their work ! I don't enjoy mine either . At the moment it's a war we are in so of course won't be enjoyable . Bottom line is GS got THE TIMING OF RAE'S sacking badly wrong and he has to take full responsibility . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 I honestly do not disagree with most of what you say . IVE said before he kept us up last year and we were a poor side . If he'd been given the sack at the end of lat year I'd have been happy to see JR. Come in then . However when the decision was made to keep RAE then it was complete madness to show him the door after 6 games . As for the players turning up to enjoy their work ! I don't enjoy mine either . At the moment it's a war we are in so of course won't be enjoyable . Bottom line is GS got THE TIMING OF RAE'S sacking badly wrong and he has to take full responsibility . But perhaps the timing was also due to the time it took to get the sale of the club over the line. Did it not drag into July? I recall chatting to Stewart Gilmour at the Open and things weren't officially concluded at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 Strange that after Rae got the tin-tack at least five players including Mallan and Sutton were in the media saying they were sorry he went and felt he was the right man to get us up the league..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14756774.John_Sutton_blasts__quot_pathetic_quot__form_of_St_Mirren_players_that_cost_Alex_Rae_his_job/ http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/14749017.St_Mirren_players_closer_than_ever_after_horror_start__says_Stevie_Mallan/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 7 hours ago, faraway saint said: PS Come to think of it almost anyone could have done better than Ross to date. What are you basing this on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Supporter Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, TsuMirren said: But perhaps the timing was also due to the time it took to get the sale of the club over the line. Did it not drag into July? I recall chatting to Stewart Gilmour at the Open and things weren't officially concluded at that point. Yes , you could be correct but GS has just tried to keep people happy by sacking RAE and when the season had started he should have seen out until December at least before sacking him . I just can't understand why Scott has not been criticised more on this point . Probably because RAE was unpopular ( which I understand ) but GS got it badly wrong . Also his commenting on players is poor policy and looks like he's undermining the manager . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottd Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, Loyal Supporter said: Yes , you could be correct but GS has just tried to keep people happy by sacking RAE and when the season had started he should have seen out until December at least before sacking him . I just can't understand why Scott has not been criticised more on this point . Probably because RAE was unpopular ( which I understand ) but GS got it badly wrong . Also his commenting on players is poor policy and looks like he's undermining the manager . It kept me happy by sacking Rae. I notice now you are saying that Rae should have lasted until December, previously you said he should have seen out the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted February 9, 2017 Report Share Posted February 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said: Strange that after Rae got the tin-tack at least five players including Mallan and Sutton were in the media saying they were sorry he went and felt he was the right man to get us up the league..? Farrell was on the radio at the tail end of last year talking about the efforts he and Rae went to in order to get the players working as a team and felt they ran out of time . But of course that isn't why Rae got the nine-ten-jack anyway, is it. . The real problems began when TC was appointed , that created a basket case that was never going to be easy to recover. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 7 hours ago, Drew said: What are you basing this on? Our dire points won since the messiah arrived.......oh, and my expert opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Strange that after Rae got the tin-tack at least five players including Mallan and Sutton were in the media saying they were sorry he went and felt he was the right man to get us up the league..? What else were they going to say? As Thommo has recently shown, you can say one thing in the media when at the club yet rip things to bits when you're out the club or even out the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 Yes , you could be correct but GS has just tried to keep people happy by sacking RAE and when the season had started he should have seen out until December at least before sacking him . I just can't understand why Scott has not been criticised more on this point . Probably because RAE was unpopular ( which I understand ) but GS got it badly wrong . Also his commenting on players is poor policy and looks like he's undermining the manager . Undermining? You mean by agreeing with him, taking on the view expressed at the AGM and then backing him? Admittedly, it does appear the Mallan comments in the latest update have "amended".My only real criticism is the no matter what feel around Jack's contract length, but again that does at least give the impression of moving away from constant turnover. You can't blame Gordon for performances under Jack, but yes there's certainly potential for the appointment to cost the club more than even TC did. That potential was there no matter what or whom though. Be it Rae remaining, Davies, Calderwood, Hughes (who feels Warburton is doing well), Gus, McCall, Adams, Naysmith, Young or any other possible appointment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 One of the most bizarre elements of our on-going problems is the fond memories, sympathy and loyalty that some folk appear to have for Alex Rae. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 36 minutes ago, Edinbuddie said: One of the most bizarre elements of our on-going problems is the fond memories, sympathy and loyalty that some folk appear to have for Alex Rae. I agree, imagine having fond memories for a man who kept us in this shit league. What is bizarre is how many supporters focused on him being an ex Rangers player rather than a St Mirren manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyal Supporter Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 33 minutes ago, Edinbuddie said: One of the most bizarre elements of our on-going problems is the fond memories, sympathy and loyalty that some folk appear to have for Alex Rae. IVE no loyalty of Alex Rae whatsoever . All I'm saying is that GS sacked him at the wrong time . If he wanted to begin his takeover with a fresh manager then that's understandable . But to sack RAE after 6 games after RAE brought his own signings in during the summer was a massive error . All Gordon Scott done was try to be popular among the supporters who wanted Rae out the door . i repeat Rae was NOT the manager to take us forward and was not the correct appointment by the previous board but Scott should have " bit the bullet " and kept him till the end of the season or even until last December . All this mess we are in has come from GS and his complete misunderstanding of how players can react to a manager leaving at the wrong time . If GS had known what he was doing he'd have looked around for the correct appointment when Rae was still in the job . Having done that then sack Rae preferably at end of this season . We'd still be in The Championship and the new manager would have been appointed at the correct time . Instead Jack came in at a difficult time when making his own signings was impossible and this has lead to a lot of panick and short term signings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 All this mess goes back to the old Bod and the decision to appoint Tommy Craig as manager. Successive managerial appointments since then haven't worked, and the club has been treading water for years. The two issues are probably related. GS has come in and is trying to turn things round. It seems that he and Rae didn't share the same ideas, results and performances were poor, so he's appointed his first manager and has made it clear that JR agrees in his philosophy of how the club should develop and run. No-one is faultless in all of this, but GS (and I'd argue JR) is/are less at fault than a lot of others when it comes to our current position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 27 minutes ago, faraway saint said: I agree, imagine having fond memories for a man who kept us in this shit league. What is bizarre is how many supporters focused on him being an ex Rangers player rather than a St Mirren manager. .....and I'd argue that he also laid the foundation for a further relegation with his lazy summer recruitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 12 minutes ago, Edinbuddie said: .....and I'd argue that he also laid the foundation for a further relegation with his lazy summer recruitment. Speculate all you like, the facts are were in deep doo doo mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Monkey Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 25 minutes ago, Edinbuddie said: the club has been treading water for years. I think that's a flattering analysis, TBH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 (edited) 16 hours ago, Lord Pityme said: I dont think he is bad, i think he is and has been out of his depth. Too many changes to line up and formation, when all we needed was to win ugly. I believe he thought it would be straightforward to get a decent season under his belt, and have a proper go next season. That to me shows his lack of experience, or even the mindset to learn from those who do/have done it dirty & ugly before. maybe he will learn? Come on LPM that's rubbish............. and your just looking at league table now, do u have any clue what is actually happening at our club? And what has happened. This is not a Tony Pullis, Big Sam scenario, where by they come in, change to 7 at the back and start winning 1-0s. This is more like a Blackpool, a Coventry situation. Where there is something fundamentally wrong and no one has addressed it, just skated over the surface.. And how did managers do there?? Well they all failed............... Same as Saints So our Jack has identified we are failing, has addressed we are failing with the BOD, who have also reacted positively So lets go back 2 years...... We are a SPL side..... 6 points clear of Ross County............. what do Ross County do, they get in 8 players, what do St Mirren do---- they get in a Ross County reject.... who manages to get sent off first game..... We go back they go forward Some on here, especially you..... seem to think that the answer is SACK ... Well LPM , under that premise we would never had Sir Alex, Man Utd, would not have won 13 league titles, 2 CL and loads of cups. U would have sacked him . You would have sacked McInally as well There comes a point where you have to draw a line in the sand. Its obvious the club you support hasn't given up , so many on here have...................... Edited February 10, 2017 by DougJamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 This thread is a bit silly. This is the eve of a Scottish Cup tie. An eminently winnable cup tie. Perhaps we should focus on the supporting element of being supporters, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 3 hours ago, TsuMirren said: What else were they going to say? As Thommo has recently shown, you can say one thing in the media when at the club yet rip things to bits when you're out the club or even out the game. They didnt have to say anything when he was gone, whats their motive to praise him when they have a new gaffer to please? it is telling given the spin peddled to us of dressing room unrest that so many of them came out in the media after Rae had gone to praise him??? Someone is being economical with the whole truth, plain and sinple GS didnt like him, and he and the bod made an error in timing, choice and judgement that may see us relegated again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
class of 76-77 Posted February 10, 2017 Report Share Posted February 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Drew said: This thread is a bit silly. This is the eve of a Scottish Cup tie. An eminently winnable cup tie. Perhaps we should focus on the supporting element of being supporters, no? You won't get that on this thread as there are many who never wanted JR, and will never accept him unless he turns around an almost impossible situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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