Stephen McGinn

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

I'm totally confused.com ? Watford? Dude? Long hair?  I take it you want McGinn to go back to Watford grow long hair and become The Dude. But that's not the lyrics of the classic Quincy Jones. Are you guys in Amsterdam by any chance doing the coffee shop rounds. Stick with the beer guys you write a better standard of nonsense lol. 

[Guest TPAFKATS]

My only concern with McGinn as captain is the effect it had on Shuggies game.

[magnus]

Back page of PDE Stephen has a release clause in the event of relegation. Let's hope we get to enjoy watching him for a long time.

[Dan Is The Man]

Was really impressed with Stephen when he came on. Was sceptical about him signing but I'll happily take it back if he continues in the manner he's started.

We'll need his composure and experience in the middle of the park if we're to get ourselves out of this.

[Lord Pityme]

14 minutes ago, magnus said:

Back page of PDE Stephen has a release clause in the event of relegation. Let's hope we get to enjoy watching him for a long time.

Wtf..!

so basically all the recent signings could be gone come May! Is this going to look like one colossal waste of monety should we succumb to our current predicament? No business plans like this its fecking bonkers!

[Tommy]

Wtf..!
so basically all the recent signings could be gone come May! Is this going to look like one colossal waste of monety should we succumb to our current predicament? No business plans like this its fecking bonkers!

With 8 players out and 8 players in, it is possible the wage bill is still around what it was before the transfer window opened.

[Drew]

12 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Wtf..!

so basically all the recent signings could be gone come May! Is this going to look like one colossal waste of monety should we succumb to our current predicament? No business plans like this its fecking bonkers!

If you were McGinn, would you have signed without such a clause?

Nothing bonkers about it. This was always going to be the last throw of the dice. The club have to take a punt to try and keep us us up.

Damned if you do, etc....

[TopCat]

If you were McGinn, would you have signed without such a clause?
Nothing bonkers about it. This was always going to be the last throw of the dice. The club have to take a punt to try and keep us us up.
Damned if you do, etc....

Indeed. No way McGinn will be playing in League 1.

That goes for the majority of the squad incidentally. If we do go down we will end up with a squad full of academy players with a handful of senior pros.

[Soctty]

5 minutes ago, Drew said:

If you were McGinn, would you have signed without such a clause?

Nothing bonkers about it. This was always going to be the last throw of the dice. The club have to take a punt to try and keep us us up.

Damned if you do, etc....

Common sense, as always, eludes some people.

[Lord Pityme]

13 minutes ago, Soctty said:

Common sense, as always, eludes some people.

It certainly does, add to that consistency and sticking to your word.

we were told the sacking has to stop, only to see the sacking continue within weeks....

we were told by the new manager he saw the quality to get us up the league in the dressing room when he joined, only for him to continually criticise drop, sell and off load those same players.

we were told that 'youth' was the answer and where the club would major, only for products of our academy to be let go....

common sense does as you suggest seem to allude some people.

now it seems our sucess lies on the back of almost a whole new team, who may well all be elsewhere in 14 weeks?

Edit; welcome to the 'Lee Clark' school of (throw as many different players as you can at the problem) how to manage a professional football club.

sign up for the 'Ross Revolution'

'our man is Jack

the man they'll never sack'

Edited January 30, 2017 by Lord Pityme

[Drew]

7 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

It certainly does, add to that consistency and sticking to your word.

we were told the sacking has to stop, only to see the sacking continue within weeks....

we were told by the new manager he saw the quality to get us up the league in the dressing room when he joined, only for him to continually criticise drop, sell and off load those same players.

we were told that 'youth' was the answer and where the club would major, only for products of our academy to be let go....

common sense does as you suggest seem to allude some people.

now it seems our sucess lies on the back of almost a whole new team, who may well all be elsewhere in 14 weeks?

This is rambling nonsense, I'm afraid.

[Soctty]

8 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

It certainly does, add to that consistency and sticking to your word.

we were told the sacking has to stop, only to see the sacking continue within weeks....

we were told by the new manager he saw the quality to get us up the league in the dressing room when he joined, only for him to continually criticise drop, sell and off load those same players.

we were told that 'youth' was the answer and where the club would major, only for products of our academy to be let go....

common sense does as you suggest seem to allude some people.

now it seems our sucess lies on the back of almost a whole new team, who may well all be elsewhere in 14 weeks?

You're quite naive aren't you?

 

The manager says he has the quality to get us up the league - presumably you'd rather he said "This lot are shite, we've no chance, but I need to pick some of them because we've nobody else, and can't make any changes til January"?

 

Products of our youth weren't "let go" they wanted to leave, and with their contract situations being as they were, we did the best for the club by getting some money for them. It's simple and common sense, as stated before. It seems you can't grasp it though.

 

Had the manager stuck with the team who were failing to pick up points, you'd have been first in the queue, demanding to know why he hadn't made the most of the transfer window, why he hadn't wheeled and dealed, that we were meekly accepting our fate. As we've made moves to try to change things, weeded out players who weren't performing, brought in some players that many of us think are better than those they've replaced, you're still not happy. 

 

I alluded to the fact that common sense seemed to elude some. You fit the bill perfectly - thank you for being a living, breathing example for me to use...

Edited January 30, 2017 by Soctty

[Lord Pityme]

3 minutes ago, Soctty said:

You're quite naive aren't you?

 

The manager says he has the quality to get us up the league - presumably you'd rather he said "This lot are shite, we've no chance, but I need to pick some of them because we've nobody else, and can't make any changes til January"?

 

Products of our youth weren't "let go" they wanted to leave, and with their contract situations being as they were, we did the best for the club by getting some money for them. It's simple and common sense, as stated before. It seems you can't grasp it though.

 

Had the manager stuck with the team who were failing to pick up points, you'd have been first in the queue, demanding to know why he hadn't made the most of the transfer window, why he hadn't wheeled and dealed, that we were meekly accepting our fate. As we've made moves to try to change things, weeded out players who weren't performing, brought in some players that many of us think are better than those they've replaced, you're still not happy. 

 

I alluded to the fact that common sense seemed to elude some. You fit the bill perfectly - thank you for being a living, breathing example for me to use...

You missed the 'sacking has to stop bit' please spin that one for us too.

and the players he 'weeded' out for not performing have by and large gone on to sign for better placed clubs.... how do you square that circle?

Edited January 30, 2017 by Lord Pityme

[Soctty]

You missed the 'sacking has to stop bit' please spin that one for us too.

and the players he 'weeded' out for not performing have by and large gone on to sign for better placed clubs.... how do you square that circle?

I couldn't give a shit about the sacking has to stop bit. We have a manager now that I'd like to stick with.

I also couldn't give a shit about the players we've weeded out.

You're very tiresome, aren't you?

[pozbaird]

Gary Teale got the gig because Tommy Craig wasn't cutting it. Ian Murray got the gig presumably because the BoD thought Gary Teale wasn't up to it. Alex Rae got the gig because Ian Murray wasn't cutting it. Jack Ross got the gig because Alex Rae wasn't cutting it. If we go down, and the first thing GLS/SMiSA do is to bag Jack Ross, who on earth (of any calibre) would entertain joining the performing circus based in Greenhill Road? 

Am I particularly impressed with Jack Ross so far? Not really, but somewhere, sometime, we need to stick with someone and it might as well be Ross. If we go down, I'd give him the opportunity to bring us back up. If he fails to get promotion at the first time of asking, then that would be very worrying, but at least give him a shot.

[Magic Monkey]

8 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Am I particularly impressed with Jack Ross so far? Not really, but somewhere, sometime, we need to stick with someone and it might as well be Ross. If we go down, I'd give him the opportunity to bring us back up. If he fails to get promotion at the first time of asking, then that would be very worrying, but at least give him a shot.

This. You could have made a strong case for bagging Danny Lennon after the Summer of 'Beath. He looked out of his depth and clearly arrived at the job not understanding the quality of player required in the top flight.

We've got to settle on a manager that we're going to allow to grow into the role. Something about Rae was too bull-headed, too stubborn. I wasn't convinced he would learn or change. Ross, on the other hand, seems like he might be able to .

[TopCat]

This. You could have made a strong case for bagging Danny Lennon after the Summer of 'Beath. He looked out of his depth and clearly arrived at the job not understanding the quality of player required in the top flight.
We've got to settle on a manager that we're going to allow to grow into the role. Something about Rae was too bull-headed, too stubborn. I wasn't convinced he would learn or change. Ross, on the other hand, seems like he might be able to .

Why can't we go for an experienced manager who doesn't have to learn on the job like Ross is doing?

[Lord Pityme]

24 minutes ago, pozbaird said:

Gary Teale got the gig because Tommy Craig wasn't cutting it. Ian Murray got the gig presumably because the BoD thought Gary Teale wasn't up to it. Alex Rae got the gig because Ian Murray wasn't cutting it. Jack Ross got the gig because Alex Rae wasn't cutting it. If we go down, and the first thing GLS/SMiSA do is to bag Jack Ross, who on earth (of any calibre) would entertain joining the performing circus based in Greenhill Road? 

Am I particularly impressed with Jack Ross so far? Not really, but somewhere, sometime, we need to stick with someone and it might as well be Ross. If we go down, I'd give him the opportunity to bring us back up. If he fails to get promotion at the first time of asking, then that would be very worrying, but at least give him a shot.

I agree, but lets be clear where we start from, and what needs to change. This board sacked a manager after six league games, and we all expected if that was their decision, then it was done because whoever they chose next was going to make us better, more competitive, and at least stay in the league.

i am tired of hearing myself saying and thinking this but unless there is some honesty when mistakes are obviously made how do we all move forward? 

As regards Ross, if he does take us down, on what basis should he be retained to try and get us promoted? Look at the players, coaches, budget, facilities, supporters  and opportunities he has been at SMFC, if we go down, whilst P/t teams on shoestring budgets remain, what likely hood is there he will turn it round with a League one budget?

you know the average crowd down there is 400-500... that is my biggest fear. We dont operate on the models clubs down there and around us do. We are still operating like a premier club hoping money will come from sponsors, telly etc.

[Lord Pityme]

5 minutes ago, TopCat said:

 

Why can't we go for an experienced manager who doesn't have to learn on the job like Ross is doing?
 

 

Houston, Duffy, McCall etc have all got the drop on Jack and his team and how to play us. I actually like Ross, but he really should have had a minimum of one season with us as an experienced managers asst before getting command of the ship.

[Bud the Baker]

4 hours ago, Magic Monkey said:

This. You could have made a strong case for bagging Danny Lennon after the Summer of 'Beath. He looked out of his depth and clearly arrived at the job not understanding the quality of player required in the top flight.

We've got to settle on a manager that we're going to allow to grow into the role. Something about Rae was too bull-headed, too stubborn. I wasn't convinced he would learn or change. Ross, on the other hand, seems like he might be able to .

Lennon made major changes to formation & tactics twice during his tenure - first like you said when things were going badly in his first season at the end of September he pretty much switched to the "shitfest" tactics of his predecessor for the remainder of that season and again in his final season when he dumped summer signings Grainger & Harkins and replaced them with younger players like Kelly & Naismith.

You can't say the same about Ross after seeming to apportion blame for the 3-1 Morton defeat on the two Rangers loanees results continued to be in the main bad for the rest of the calendar year. We were still within touching distance of four clubs at the start of the window - since then we've seen QotS (whose signings gelled quickly enough ) and Dunfermline move out of our reach. We're possibly still within touching distance of the two p/t teams and maybe even Raith now but they all have H2H games with each other and you have to assume that only one of those three teams is realistically catchable - most likely Ayr. It's not all Jack Ross's fault but he hasn't been able to significantly improve on the form we showed under Rae yet and despite talking a good game at the AGM we still fielded the same LB and a different permutation of CH's that we did against Ayr Utd. prior to that meeting while the gap to safety has increased.

The turnover of players at diddy clubs like our is pretty steep these days - even back in the 90's journeymen pros like Steve Watson and Jim Dick used to stay 3/4 seasons but contracts are shorter now and most teams seem to turnaround their playing staff much quicker these days. If JR can't make 9th place and factoring in the news that McGinn, at least, has a relegation clause in his contract I wouldn't have much confidence in him putting together a side to win the First Division next season.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Bud the Baker

[Lord Pityme]

49 minutes ago, Soctty said:

I couldn't give a shit about the sacking has to stop bit. We have a manager now that I'd like to stick with.

I also couldn't give a shit about the players we've weeded out.

You're very tiresome, aren't you?

Why do you always seem to end or include insults in your posts? Cant you just talk/debate without it?

[pozbaird]

10 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I agree, but lets be clear where we start from, and what needs to change. This board sacked a manager after six league games, and we all expected if that was their decision, then it was done because whoever they chose next was going to make us better, more competitive, and at least stay in the league.

i am tired of hearing myself saying and thinking this but unless there is some honesty when mistakes are obviously made how do we all move forward? 

As regards Ross, if he does take us down, on what basis should he be retained to try and get us promoted? Look at the players, coaches, budget, facilities, supporters  and opportunities he has been at SMFC, if we go down, whilst P/t teams on shoestring budgets remain, what likely hood is there he will turn it round with a League one budget?

you know the average crowd down there is 400-500... that is my biggest fear. We dont operate on the models clubs down there and around us do. We are still operating like a premier club hoping money will come from sponsors, telly etc.

I said what the basis should be for him being retained should we go down. Basically we would be unlikely to attract a decent calibre of replacement willing to join a third tier basketcase of a club who hire & fire more often than shull ends up in the wank tank, so, instead of starting again with yet another new face who starts by learning the names of his players, stick with Jack Ross. In my opinion, it is that clear cut. Ross may or may not be the answer, I simply cannot see starting all over again as being better than giving Ross time.

Edit: thread drift, but not convinced it wos' me wot' started it. 

Edited January 30, 2017 by pozbaird

[Lord Pityme]

1 minute ago, pozbaird said:

I said what the basis should be for him being retained should we go down. Basically we would be unlikely to attract a decent calibre of replacement willing to join a third tier basketcase of a club who hire & fire more often than shull ends up in the wank tank, so, instead of starting again with yet another new face who starts by learing the names of his players, stick with Jack Ross. In my opinion, it is that clear cut. Ross may or may not be the answer, I simply cannot see starting all over again as being better than giving Ross time.

I take your point, imo i havent yet seen whatever it is in him, to convince me he should get the chance to rebuild. Who knows maybe that will shine through before May. If we do go down we will have to start again as most of our current squad either by contract, or opportunity will go.

BTW i would give him time if we go down, ten years sewing mail bags!

[class of 76-77]

2 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Houston, Duffy, McCall etc have all got the drop on Jack and his team and how to play us. I actually like Ross, but he really should have had a minimum of one season with us as an experienced managers asst before getting command of the ship.

Are you being serious with that list of utter has been managers ? Duffy has one Solitary league title to his name in about 30 years of management. The other two are not worthy of consideration either.

 

[pozbaird]

9 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

I take your point, imo i havent yet seen whatever it is in him, to convince me he should get the chance to rebuild. Who knows maybe that will shine through before May. If we do go down we will have to start again as most of our current squad either by contract, or opportunity will go.

BTW i would give him time if we go down, ten years sewing mail bags!

Oh I agree, me wanting to keep Jack Ross simply because I think we would struggle to get a decent successor, and not because I have seen something in him is hardly a great endorsement of our current manager. Having watched our decline as a club since 2013 though, I think that's pretty much where we would find ourselves as a third tier outit - stick with him and pray it works because bringing in yet another new face could be even worse. Sheesh.

Scary times.

Edited January 30, 2017 by pozbaird