bazil85 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Hi St Mirren fans. Thought I would post a thread to see what everyone’s opinion is on Project Brave and how it could impact our club/ Scottish football either positively or negatively. Sorry if there is/ has already been a thread on this. I can’t see it but with a decision looking to be made shortly I thought this was a decent topic to post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edinbuddie Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 (edited) I'm not sure many fans have much idea what it's all about. I've heard snippets e.g. OF colts teams in the SPFL and fewer academies, but I'm not convinced that these are ideas that are going to solve Scottish football's problems. The SFA has a massive reputational issue, in that whenever it makes a announcement about what it's all about, many fans first thought will be 'will this improve Scottish football or will it simply help the OF'? I view both the OF colts teams and fewer academies as a bad move for every other decent sized club in Scotland. There would be more incentive for the best youngsters to sign for the OF (the 'if you're good, you'll get an early chance with us' argument goes out of the window for clubs like ours), and fewer academies may mean that it's only an 'elite' group of clubs that receive SFA funding, and they'll get more of it. There must be plenty more to it, but as we're only fans we need to wait to hear what 'the great and the good' have decided. Given the shambolic running of the game in Scotland over the past 20-30 years, I'm not taking much hope from the fact that it's the same guys that have been running the coaching set up for decades that will get a big say in the changes. Edited for spelling! Edited February 13, 2017 by Edinbuddie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Hi St Mirren fans. Thought I would post a thread to see what everyone’s opinion is on Project Brave and how it could impact our club/ Scottish football either positively or negatively. Sorry if there is/ has already been a thread on this. I can’t see it but with a decision looking to be made shortly I thought this was a decent topic to post. The belief appears to be that fewer Academies and fewer opportunities will bring through better players. It's absolutely bloody nuts. We already have a top league that is too small and just breeds utter boredom. So, a league offering less room to give youth a chance and fewer Academies is just mind boggling. Its the same as the debate around merging clubs, as if Hamilton or Airdrie fans would travel to Motherwell or even Forfar and Brechin fans would travel to Montrose. Our game needs less imbeciles running it, that should be the first element of Project Brave after they've changed the shit name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 General Nonsense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 It has been billed as the SFA's last spin of the dice to try and stimulate a process to develop and bring through a supply of good young scottish footballers. Givenevery scheme they have launched to date hasnt worked, why should we believe this top down approach will be three times a charm? imo it would be much better for clubs, or clubs pairing up etc to run their own, having that organised alongside youth football in their area. That way you can bring the ones with most potential into an intensive programme, and keep developing the others to ensure you dont miss a late developer. The SFa are just going to waste a fortune, achieve nowt and blame everyone else for their failure.... again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Sanchez Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Is there any reason why we don't just send someone over to Holland to find out how the f*ck they've been managing to produce top drawer talent, consistently, over the past 50 years? They must be doing something right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Pityme Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, Sonny said: General Nonsense? Corporal Punishment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted February 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 19 minutes ago, Sonny said: General Nonsense? I put it here because it has a direct impact on St Mirren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted February 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 My thoughts are below Against it! First of all the idea of Rangers and Celtic Colt teams, absolutely no way! This would be a blatant attempt by the SFA (yet again) to push the Glasgow big two teams over everyone else. They would only serve the purpose of making them stronger and swallowing up the best young talent in Scotland to play league 1 or 2 football. No benefit for the national team in this in my opinion and the challenge cup has shown they’re not good enough for that level. Also them going in at League 2 is ridiculous it’s not bottom of the pyramid. Nothing will change my mind on this being a good idea. Two top youth leagues of eight teams and a maximum of 16 elite academy’s. Against this as well, again this will be stepping on smaller teams and make it so much more difficult for them to attract young players and develop them. I realise St Mirren would likely be one of these 16 academies but I think we have a duty to make Youth recruitment fairer and not top end it to the bigger teams. I don’t think this will produce better quality players it just looks like they want to cut back on funding to youth academies and again push the agenda of the bigger teams. More development loans and standard loans allowed to clubs. This is the biggest kick in the teeth of all. We’ll end up with Championship clubs and below having teams made up of loan players (Worse than right now). Again it’s a way for bigger clubs to have more potential quality young players, ship them out on loan, not pay their wages and hope a few develop. No benefit to Scottish National Team again. Would likely see Rangers and Celtic with lots more loan players shipped out to the other divisions like Chelsea and Man City currently have. I think those clubs have 30+ players out on loan in addition to their youth squads. Not fair and again making bigger teams bigger and smaller teams smaller. What I would like to see is a limit on the number of players at each club. Senior squads that have to have a larger number of U21 players and players that are eligible to play for Scotland in them. Under 20 / 18 teams with a maximum of 20 odd players and maximum number of players you can put out on loan. This would allow for players to develop in first team squads, mean that there’s a better distribution of young players playing at more clubs in different divisions, protect development fees for smaller clubs because the players would need to be signed not just loaned. I would also like to see more funding to youth academies and the development of better training facilities for clubs across Scotland, how can cutting back on this be masked as a good thing? The SFA are a joke organisation that’s agenda to push the big two first then top flight clubs over and above the other clubs in Scotland is becoming more and more blatant. Going forward there has to be a clear election process for who the SFA employ and much more fan representation at the SFA from lower level clubs. I fear it'll be pushed through without a vote or that smaller clubs will vote on it because they feel they don't have a choice in regards to a bigger loan market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Don't agree with Colt teams. The only other thing I would add is thank God Stuart Dickson is in the sin bin. So baz if you feel there is not much interest here drop yourself in there , it won't be easy mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Isle Of Bute Saint said: Don't agree with Colt teams. The only other thing I would add is thank God Stuart Dickson is in the sin bin. So baz if you feel there is not much interest here drop yourself in there , it won't be easy mind. Stuart isn't in the sin bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melmac Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Its really about time they brought back halving the gate receipts for every game, that would make things a way more equitable. If team A are playing Team B at home, why should Team A be permitted to keep the receipts for the game when the game could obviously not proceed without team B. Is that too obvious? Colt teams, yeh lets give the knuckle draggers even more reason to rob, strangle and pollute the game - this time at lower league level. Does anybody know, how many players in recent years have came through the ranks at the ugly sisters to play for Scotland at the top level? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglesham saint Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 I'm still waiting for 2 previous think tanks ,one from 1979 and McLeish ,not Eck ,that other useless mouth. This will be no different a job for the boys, more crap from celtic SFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, Eaglesham saint said: I'm still waiting for 2 previous think tanks ,one from 1979 and McLeish ,not Eck ,that other useless mouth. This will be no different a job for the boys, more crap from celtic SFA Long wait Bud Our problem since 1873 and 1888 has been evident..... Still hope one day they piss off to Engerland or Mars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 1 hour ago, bazil85 said: I put it here because it has a direct impact on St Mirren. At the moment it is only an idea. One that has still to be firmed up and agreed upon and is still being touted around. What impact it will have on St Mirren remains to be seen assuming that it is not kicked into touch anyway. Highly speculative at the moment as resistance to it will be severe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougJamie Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Does need to be renamed though PROJECT BIGGOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldorf34 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 Its gonna happen, it will mean less SFA finance for the St Mirren academy if we are in the second tier of academies, only 16 of the current 29 will get any finance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted February 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Sonny said: At the moment it is only an idea. One that has still to be firmed up and agreed upon and is still being touted around. What impact it will have on St Mirren remains to be seen assuming that it is not kicked into touch anyway. Highly speculative at the moment as resistance to it will be severe. The consolation period has ended. They want to implement a lot of it by next season so guessing we'll hear one way or another soon. Regardless I feel there will be an impact on St Mirren either way. Either the SFA will change it without a vote (if they did this I think a lot of fans across the country would be completely dismayed with them) or it'll be something St Mirren will be asked to vote on with the other 41 clubs. Either way I think it's worth a fair bit of concern. For example for me, if St Mirren were asked to vote and backed Project Brave without canvasing supporters I would be very frustrated. I feel in the spirit of a club trying to move into fan ownership any vote on such a matter would have to be the choice of the fans. On the back of that I think it would be completely blown out the water if it went to a vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 2 hours ago, Dirty Sanchez said: Is there any reason why we don't just send someone over to Holland to find out how the f*ck they've been managing to produce top drawer talent, consistently, over the past 50 years? They must be doing something right. Just don't send Malky McKay, FFS. You can only imagine the texts he'd be sending after a couple of days in Amsterdam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TsuMirren Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 The consolation period has ended. They want to implement a lot of it by next season so guessing we'll hear one way or another soon. Regardless I feel there will be an impact on St Mirren either way. Either the SFA will change it without a vote (if they did this I think a lot of fans across the country would be completely dismayed with them) or it'll be something St Mirren will be asked to vote on with the other 41 clubs. Either way I think it's worth a fair bit of concern. For example for me, if St Mirren were asked to vote and backed Project Brave without canvasing supporters I would be very frustrated. I feel in the spirit of a club trying to move into fan ownership any vote on such a matter would have to be the choice of the fans. On the back of that I think it would be completely blown out the water if it went to a vote. It'll be 2 clubs for, 40 against, and we'll get told it went through unanimously. Anyone else remember sitting in a room and being told the other clubs were just primed to take on the Old Firm and get control? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted February 13, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 16 minutes ago, TsuMirren said: It'll be 2 clubs for, 40 against, and we'll get told it went through unanimously. Anyone else remember sitting in a room and being told the other clubs were just primed to take on the Old Firm and get control? The Old Firm (Can't really call it that anymore) Have had too much power for too long. Rangers liquidation should have been the spark for other clubs to take back power. Two teams controlling 42 is bang out of order regardless of who they are. The opportunity has now been missed. We're seeing now how the set up can disadvantage Rangers and Celtic as well. Colt teams for the two of them will swiftly be voted against surely. Scottish football is on it's knees and Rangers are seeing how difficult it is to be profitable in a boring, repetitive league with no competition. Same can be said for Celtic as well. Sure they're miles ahead of everyone in Scotland but they're miles behind so many other European teams. I do think major change is needed but this isn't it. The first change is getting rid of the SFA management structure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebella15 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 St Mirren FC have already sent back their comments on the proposal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Arthur Blair Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 3 minutes ago, rebella15 said: St Mirren FC have already sent back their comments on the proposal I hope it was two words and the second one was "off". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bud77 Posted February 13, 2017 Report Share Posted February 13, 2017 I think in general they have a good idea, the big problem is how they select the elite academies. To me the elite academies should be the ones who have proven over a sustained period of time that they will promote players to the first team (the problem for the SFA is this would rule out most of the premier league clubs), they after all are the clubs who are developing players and continue to develop them after they reach 20. Loans have their places but should be severley restricted, look at Kilmarnock who have signed something like 14 loan players and only one of those is eligible to play for Scotland, why haven't they managed to develop their youth players over that time ? So why should they then possibly get a place in the elite league at the expense of a club like St Mirren who do have academy players in the first team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted February 14, 2017 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2017 14 hours ago, rebella15 said: St Mirren FC have already sent back their comments on the proposal What was the chat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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