bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, rabuddies said: Given that we scraped through by the skin of our teeth last season any agent worth his money would advise Reilly to only sign for one season and put himself in the shop window. What contract the club offered him then or offer him now it's out of our hands. I agree to a certain extent, I was very surprised that C Smith signed signed a two year deal in the summer. I do think there are other factors outside of money for young players though, like JR and our playing style. How many times do you see players jump too early then end up out of FT football by 30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, BuddieinEK said: But you are NOT just slating him for LAST season. You say he has had numerous poor games, albeit you have now diluted that to him not covering himself in glory! Thank heavens for warning beepers when reversing! Jack has played consistently well in a regularly changing defence. He is keeping McCart out of the team, Buchanan too. Davis and MacKenzie would be most people's first choice defence, mine included. That said, if Gary's injury struggles continue then Davis and Baird show tremendous potential as a partnershipband compliment one another well. Harry talks players through the game and is an excellent pro. I just hope we can keep him. I suppose the lesson is that at our level, we should trust the manager to spot potential in players and help them improve their game. Mind you... It is a helluva lot easier just to continually criticise! i said "as he has on occasion this season" that's true. More often than not he's been good this season but as I said not finished article. poor game/ covering himself in glory, to clarify I'm not reversing anything, it's two different ways of saying the same thing. hardly covering himself in glory is a tongue in cheek way of saying poor... Never thought I'd have to explain that. To say I'm continually criticizing is a bit harsh i feel. I know there are some fans (yourself included) where JB this season and last could do no wrong but I'm simply pointing out facts. It's curious that he wouldn't be your first choice CB either if he's doing so well. He IS keeping buchanan and McCart out on merit 100% and long may it continue. JR seen fit enough to give him a new contract this year, that is and always was fine with me. May not of been the choice I would have made but always happy to go with the gaffer wishes, it was a gamble lets hope it pays off long-term. All I'm saying about this post is out of the contracts that are up, he wouldn't be my main priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Spam_Valley said: 24 isn't young for a footballer. What age do you reckon the compensation agreement should stop at? I'd understand your argument if we had developed Gavin over a longer period of time however, by the time he is free to talk to other clubs, he wouldn’t have even completed a full season with us. I don’t know how we could possibly claim any compensation over him. Arguably, QOTS are the team that developed Gavin into the goal scorer (and received a nom.fee from Hearts) he is and due to lack of opportunity/confidence it never quite worked at Hearts or Dunfermline. No-one else should be due anything in regard to compensation. I don't think it should stop. Not saying it should be as much as they get older but I think teams should be compensated when losing players. if a team like St Mirren sign a Gavin Reilly, turn him from a bit part SP player into a 25 goal a season striker should we get zero for him because he's 24 but would get a development comp if he was 21? The development player was initially put in to support smaller clubs developing younger players but why should it just be younger players? Hardly fair. Same could be said for us taking league 1 players in the summer. I'd have it across the game at all ages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 i said "as he has on occasion this season" that's true. More often than not he's been good this season but as I said not finished article. poor game/ covering himself in glory, to clarify I'm not reversing anything, it's two different ways of saying the same thing. hardly covering himself in glory is a tongue in cheek way of saying poor... Never thought I'd have to explain that. To say I'm continually criticizing is a bit harsh i feel. I know there are some fans (yourself included) where JB this season and last could do no wrong but I'm simply pointing out facts. It's curious that he wouldn't be your first choice CB either if he's doing so well. He IS keeping buchanan and McCart out on merit 100% and long may it continue. JR seen fit enough to give him a new contract this year, that is and always was fine with me. May not of been the choice I would have made but always happy to go with the gaffer wishes, it was a gamble lets hope it pays off long-term. All I'm saying about this post is out of the contracts that are up, he wouldn't be my main priority. And fortunately you are not the manager.FWIW... WHERE have I said he can do no wrong? I do believe I have offered criticism when appropriate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spam_Valley Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 32 minutes ago, bazil85 said: I don't think it should stop. Not saying it should be as much as they get older but I think teams should be compensated when losing players. if a team like St Mirren sign a Gavin Reilly, turn him from a bit part SP player into a 25 goal a season striker should we get zero for him because he's 24 but would get a development comp if he was 21? The development player was initially put in to support smaller clubs developing younger players but why should it just be younger players? Hardly fair. Same could be said for us taking league 1 players in the summer. I'd have it across the game at all ages. What utter nonsense. Yes we should get zero for Gavin Reilly if he signs elsewhere. So, if John Sutton leaves at the end of his contract we should receive a fee from whoever resigns him? That will put the majority of minor teams off signing free agents / out of contract players due to another monetary reason to budget for. It's bad enough they have wages, signing on fees, agent fees and now they have to pay compensation for an aging journeyman striker. What should we have paid Hearts for Gavin in the summer? Should the figure we paid Hearts be a lot less than the one we will receive down to the fact he managed to score more goals for us in a lesser league? How do you gauge the standard of goals he scores? bearing in mind he scored four against Hutchinson Vale and two against Hearts U20's, is the value of compensation worked against the standard of defenders he's faced? He scored goals in the Premiership for Hearts are they worth more? What about Dunfermline? Do they get anything due to him being on loan last season as surely they developed him for us ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Just one of these Threads. Zzzzzzzzzzzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Mc Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 He just signed a long term contract with them in the summer man, doubt they'd want to punt him when he's doing well and improving all the time. Okay Jason Naismith must be getting homesick by now for sure and will sign in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrshire Saints Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 58 minutes ago, David Mc said: Okay Jason Naismith must be getting homesick by now for sure and will sign in the summer. Where has Gary Irvine disappeared to, is he injured ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 3 hours ago, BuddieinEK said: And fortunately you are not the manager. FWIW... WHERE have I said he can do no wrong? I do believe I have offered criticism when appropriate. You mean exactly as I have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, Spam_Valley said: What utter nonsense. Yes we should get zero for Gavin Reilly if he signs elsewhere. So, if John Sutton leaves at the end of his contract we should receive a fee from whoever resigns him? That will put the majority of minor teams off signing free agents / out of contract players due to another monetary reason to budget for. It's bad enough they have wages, signing on fees, agent fees and now they have to pay compensation for an aging journeyman striker. What should we have paid Hearts for Gavin in the summer? Should the figure we paid Hearts be a lot less than the one we will receive down to the fact he managed to score more goals for us in a lesser league? How do you gauge the standard of goals he scores? bearing in mind he scored four against Hutchinson Vale and two against Hearts U20's, is the value of compensation worked against the standard of defenders he's faced? He scored goals in the Premiership for Hearts are they worth more? What about Dunfermline? Do they get anything due to him being on loan last season as surely they developed him for us ? Well no, that's not the point I'm making at all. The rules should be the same as younger players. Clubs only need to be paid comp if they've offered them a contract of greater value for minimum one year. So if Sutton left at the end of his contract we wouldn't get comp. Hearts wanted rid of Gavin so no comp. It's very simple what I'm saying, the rule should be the same for all players regardless of age (have to be offered a contract). If you knew what the rule was it would answer every one of your questions. Edited November 30, 2017 by bazil85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, shull said: Just one of these Threads. Zzzzzzzzzzzz Well don't read/ comment on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, David Mc said: Okay Jason Naismith must be getting homesick by now for sure and will sign in the summer. Possibly, he not getting a game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 You mean exactly as I have? Not at all.I said "as appropriate", not "endless and inappropriate until proven wrong and forced into a humiliating backdown after trying hard to defend the indefensible!"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWBud Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Possibly, he not getting a game? Been playing every game, and by the sounds of most County fans on P&B has been their best player since he signed. Don’t think we will see him back anytime soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 6 hours ago, rabuddies said: Given that we scraped through by the skin of our teeth last season any agent worth his money would advise Reilly to only sign for one season and put himself in the shop window. What contract the club offered him then or offer him now it's out of our hands. Jack and Jammie have brought the best out of Gavin I'm sure he would be over the moon to stay with us if we get promotion the Scottish version of poor milk and honey will have Gavin staying with us I hope really like the lad. Jack is my worry the managerial twists and turns makes me think we won't have Jack for too long the guy is a rising star love what he has done for us he is a special one that only come round now and again in decades enjoy while it lasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 56 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said: Not at all. I said "as appropriate", not "endless and inappropriate until proven wrong and forced into a humiliating backdown after trying hard to defend the indefensible!"! Endless well I'm not wrong, he had some shocking games last season. Others have admitted that also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 56 minutes ago, DWBud said: Been playing every game, and by the sounds of most County fans on P&B has been their best player since he signed. Don’t think we will see him back anytime soon! Good on him, good to see a buddie doing well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 No comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spam_Valley Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 2 hours ago, bazil85 said: Well no, that's not the point I'm making at all. The rules should be the same as younger players. Clubs only need to be paid comp if they've offered them a contract of greater value for minimum one year. So if Sutton left at the end of his contract we wouldn't get comp. Hearts wanted rid of Gavin so no comp. It's very simple what I'm saying, the rule should be the same for all players regardless of age (have to be offered a contract). If you knew what the rule was it would answer every one of your questions. I do know what the rules are and how the fee's are compiled for the younger players development. However, you're basing us receiving compo for Gavin due to us turning him into a 25 goal striker (incidentally, he hasn't got near 25) allegedly. Development fees are there to protect clubs that develop younger players in their early stages of football education from being snaffled by the larger teams for hee haw, i can see the sense in that but 24yr old Gavin Reilly's football development and education has been and gone and we're due nothing in return if he signs elsewhere which makes perfect sense to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 Endless [emoji38] well I'm not wrong, he had some shocking games last season. Others have admitted that also. God loves a trier!Drop references to the fictional multiple duff games this season and hope to make a point nonetheless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, Spam_Valley said: I do know what the rules are and how the fee's are compiled for the younger players development. However, you're basing us receiving compo for Gavin due to us turning him into a 25 goal striker (incidentally, he hasn't got near 25) allegedly. Development fees are there to protect clubs that develop younger players in their early stages of football education from being snaffled by the larger teams for hee haw, i can see the sense in that but 24yr old Gavin Reilly's football development and education has been and gone and we're due nothing in return if he signs elsewhere which makes perfect sense to me If you know the rules why were you banging on about John Sutton, lower leagues and signing Rielly? My point was why does player development stop at 22? It makes no sense, it's agest to assume a player can't possibly develop later in his career so for me it's unfair? If governing bodies agree it's right to get comp for younger players I don't see how they can argue teams shouldn't for older players. What protection to clubs have for helping players devlop over 22? Zero... For me that's not fair. As for Gavin Reilly being a 25 goal a season striker, I didn't say he was. I was speaking about IF we turn him into that which we're well on track to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted November 30, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 39 minutes ago, BuddieinEK said: God loves a trier! Drop references to the fictional multiple duff games this season and hope to make a point nonetheless! A few (not multiple, that sounds like it's been a lot so never used that word) which I named, I assume you don't agree with them since it's Lord Jack Baird we're talking about in your eyes? Only person bringing Jack Baird back up is you anyway. I have made no comment on his performance untl the absolute nonsense that him improving somehow means people that thought he was poor last season were wrong. You can put words in my mouth you ain't fooling anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabuddies Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 16 minutes ago, bazil85 said: If governing bodies agree it's right to get comp for younger players I don't see how they can argue teams shouldn't for older players. You're basically talking about bringing back transfer fees when players are out of contract and there is hee-haw chance of that happening. It contradicts UEFA / FIFA rules and current employment legislation. A line had to be drawn somewhere and and the current age level suited all parties. I'm sure agents and FIFPro are probably actively lobbying to lower the age at which compensation is due never mind increase it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambud Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 A few (not multiple, that sounds like it's been a lot so never used that word) which I named, I assume you don't agree with them since it's Lord Jack Baird we're talking about in your eyes? [emoji38] Only person bringing Jack Baird back up is you anyway. I have made no comment on his performance untl the absolute nonsense that him improving somehow means people that thought he was poor last season were wrong. You can put words in my mouth you ain't fooling anyone. Go back and read a few of your posts. You started the thread, you said he shouldn't be given a new contract. This was picked up on as others felt he should be kept. You felt he wasn't good enough to be our 3rd or 4th CH as cover other disagreed.It went on all summer and fair play to you, you stuck to your guns. When he got his new contract you said you hoped to be proven wrong. He is our most played CH this season, a season that we are top of the league so far.4 months into the same season he is on a shortlist THAT YOU POSTED of players we should try to resign!! Perfect time to admit you were wrong, given your posts in this very thread are conflicting with each other but you choose to say you weren't wrong based on his bad performances last season and this. I have one question given he has been our most reliable CH this season do you still think you were right when you said he should have been released? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddieinEK Posted November 30, 2017 Report Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, bazil85 said: A few (not multiple, that sounds like it's been a lot so never used that word) which I named, I assume you don't agree with them since it's Lord Jack Baird we're talking about in your eyes? Only person bringing Jack Baird back up is you anyway. I have made no comment on his performance untl the absolute nonsense that him improving somehow means people that thought he was poor last season were wrong. You can put words in my mouth you ain't fooling anyone. You really are having a mare here, but I have to say, it has given me the best laugh I have had in ages! A few is not multiple despite multiple being more than one which, co-incidentally, so is "a few"! Really? When your argument stoops to that level it really is time to seek help! The only person bringing Jack Baird back up is me? Really? All I have done is reply factually to each of your funny posts in which YOU brought up your favourite obsession! "Lord Jack Baird"? Aye, very good. When all is lost, throw in a wee bit of sarcasm. Why not, you have tried everything else! Show me one single post where anyone has said that he did not have any poor games last season! Go on. Just one! Rest assured I would not put ANYTHING in your mouth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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