St Mirren Contract thread

[Soctty]

From memory. So are you trying to tell me if I went back and looked over the highlights of Baird's games this season I would see a 'very good 3rd choice centre back' I'm sceptical

Langfield and Hutton are no longer in first team picture and will likely both be gone next season. As for Mackenzie he's impressed recently and for me has went into the new contract bracket with Irvine. With his injuries early in the season I think he's done very well to come back strong. Baird isn't included in that IMO I think there's reasons he's been dropped and only gotten back into the picture because of injury. Other players that were here early in the season had frustrated but have really uped their performance recently. I don't see it from Baird to be honest.

Nothing I've seen from him suggests he deserves a new deal. Like I said earlier I'd love to be proven wrong in last 6 games.

I would say you're being a little obsessive, but fire away...


[emoji23]

[Hambud]

From memory. So are you trying to tell me if I went back and looked over the highlights of Baird's games this season I would see a 'very good 3rd choice centre back' I'm sceptical

Langfield and Hutton are no longer in first team picture and will likely both be gone next season. As for Mackenzie he's impressed recently and for me has went into the new contract bracket with Irvine. With his injuries early in the season I think he's done very well to come back strong. Baird isn't included in that IMO I think there's reasons he's been dropped and only gotten back into the picture because of injury. Other players that were here early in the season had frustrated but have really uped their performance recently. I don't see it from Baird to be honest.

Nothing I've seen from him suggests he deserves a new deal. Like I said earlier I'd love to be proven wrong in last 6 games.

As some has pointed out a crazy thread to have just now when we are wanting players to pull out all the stops for us.

I know I brought up Gary Irvine but it wasn't to have a go at him. I just find it difficult to understand how you can absolve two very experienced players of any responsibility for the terrible form we went through but are prepared to throw the young inexperienced CH under the bus for it. In my mind these two guys should have been doing a lot more to educate/help young Jack but were posted missing until January.

I'm a big fan of Jack Baird I think he has the attributes to go far in the game. A real no-nonsense competitor that needs a bit of guidance.

All about opinions I guess.

[Callum Gilhooley]

4 hours ago, bazil85 said:

 

Just have a read at some of the early Match reports this season. He made several costly mistakes

Just like most of the team earlier in the season. 

[stlucifer]

51 minutes ago, Hambud said:

As some has pointed out a crazy thread to have just now when we are wanting players to pull out all the stops for us.

I know I brought up Gary Irvine but it wasn't to have a go at him. I just find it difficult to understand how you can absolve two very experienced players of any responsibility for the terrible form we went through but are prepared to throw the young inexperienced CH under the bus for it. In my mind these two guys should have been doing a lot more to educate/help young Jack but were posted missing until January.

I'm a big fan of Jack Baird I think he has the attributes to go far in the game. A real no-nonsense competitor that needs a bit of guidance.

All about opinions I guess.
 

Irvine was being played out of position. He had enough to concern himself with his own form and the other players, young and not so young, would have probably ignored him as he was so dire. I was one of the few that backed Gary to turn it round if he could get a berth in his preferred spot. The same as Mallan when he was being lambasted due to his contribution. I don't mind getting it in the neck for not seeing what JR could do but a lot of people are eating humble pie with me due to their lambasting of certain players. I am not saying we are going to save ourselves but it's looking far more likely than it was a few short weeks ago. Baird is a young player who was playing alongside a poor defence and behind a poor midfield. I believe he is another who will grow on the support as he continue to learn the ropes.

[David Mc]

And the goalkeeping position didn't help either. What was it AR said pre-season that he'd throw the goalkeepers jersey up on the air. They probably both dropped it.

[bazil85]

You could level that accusation at many of the players this season, with or without Rae.
O'Brien, Mallan, McKenzie, Morgan, Irvine etc.
We get it. You don't rate Baird, but don't make him out to be worse than he actually is.

All of those players have also added to the team this season, just something I don't think Baird has to the same extent. I simply think there are better options with such an important playing position.

[BuddieinEK]

All of those players have also added to the team this season, just something I don't think Baird has to the same extent. I simply think there are better options with such an important playing position.

If it is that simple, why has it been so many years since we had a partnership the quality of Davis and MacKenzie?

Have you forgotten the hardships we have faced in central defence over a number of years?

Baird is far from the worst offender and is a young player who with encouragement and coaching can develop into a decent defender.

[bazil85]

It's just my opinion if people don't agree fine. I just don't see what Jack has added this season, would love that to change in last six. To bring up other players that performed poorly at the start of the season in my eyes some have redeemed themselves like Irvine and Mackenzie. Some haven't like Clarkson and Webster. I haven't seen an improvement in Jack in the games he has played this half of the season and that coupled with the fact his game time has been limited by other people in the team suggests to me he shouldn't get a new deal. If Gordon, Mackenzie and Davis were all fit right now he'd likely be 4th choice. That would be fine at his age if I had seen steady improvement since coming through the ranks. 2/3 years ago. Have we seen that improvement? I don't think anyone could answer yes.

[BuddieinEK]

It's just my opinion if people don't agree fine. I just don't see what Jack has added this season, would love that to change in last six. To bring up other players that performed poorly at the start of the season in my eyes some have redeemed themselves like Irvine and Mackenzie. Some haven't like Clarkson and Webster. I haven't seen an improvement in Jack in the games he has played this half of the season and that coupled with the fact his game time has been limited by other people in the team suggests to me he shouldn't get a new deal. If Gordon, Mackenzie and Davis were all fit right now he'd likely be 4th choice. That would be fine at his age if I had seen steady improvement since coming through the ranks. 2/3 years ago. Have we seen that improvement? I don't think anyone could answer yes.

I will answer YES.

He has stepped in at short notice a few times and stuck to te simple things doing them effectively.

He is strong in the tackle and can put in a crunching challenge.

He needs to work further on positioning and not losing his man at set pieces... But compared to when he was stuck beside Webster and essentially being a sacrificial lamb, aye, he has indeed improved.

[Hambud]

It's just my opinion if people don't agree fine. I just don't see what Jack has added this season, would love that to change in last six. To bring up other players that performed poorly at the start of the season in my eyes some have redeemed themselves like Irvine and Mackenzie. Some haven't like Clarkson and Webster. I haven't seen an improvement in Jack in the games he has played this half of the season and that coupled with the fact his game time has been limited by other people in the team suggests to me he shouldn't get a new deal. If Gordon, Mackenzie and Davis were all fit right now he'd likely be 4th choice. That would be fine at his age if I had seen steady improvement since coming through the ranks. 2/3 years ago. Have we seen that improvement? I don't think anyone could answer yes.

To go over this again. The whole club has been in free fall for the last 2/3 years. I don't think that can be blamed on Jack.

 

However you have said read the match reports. Can you tell me which match reports to read?

 

I can give you three recent goals that have cost us dear that I would say Gary McKenzie should have done better off the top of my head. 1) the first against Raith. 2) the second against dundee united in the cup 3) the first against Falkirk at Paisley. Those three spring to mind. I'm not going to start on Gary Irvine but I know of at least double figures. Even if you can't give examples give me match reports to go and read.

 

I'll come back and eat humble pie if you let me know of match reports.

 

Edited to add I am pretty sure Jack Baird will achieve more in the game than Ben Gordon.

 

[bazil85]

To go over this again. The whole club has been in free fall for the last 2/3 years. I don't think that can be blamed on Jack.
 
However you have said read the match reports. Can you tell me which match reports to read?
 
I can give you three recent goals that have cost us dear that I would say Gary McKenzie should have done better off the top of my head. 1) the first against Raith. 2) the second against dundee united in the cup 3) the first against Falkirk at Paisley. Those three spring to mind. I'm not going to start on Gary Irvine but I know of at least double figures. Even if you can't give examples give me match reports to go and read.
 
I'll come back and eat humble pie if you let me know of match reports.
 
Edited to add I am pretty sure Jack Baird will achieve more in the game than Ben Gordon.
 

First Hibs game and Morton game.

We're going round in circles. I've asked for a match where he's shown qualities that'll suggest he can be a centre back to help us get to top league/ play-off. It may as well be rhetorical, I've been to most of the games and I know there is none. He hasn't improved as a young player since he broke into squad so I don't see why he should be kept. My opinion and the only one that'll change it is Jack with his performances rest of season.

Jack and Andy have only played out of necessity based on injuries this season from what I can see.

[insaintee]

33 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

 

First Hibs game and Morton game.

We're going round in circles. I've asked for a match where he's shown qualities that'll suggest he can be a centre back to help us get to top league/ play-off. It may as well be rhetorical, I've been to most of the games and I know there is none. He hasn't improved as a young player since he broke into squad so I don't see why he should be kept. My opinion and the only one that'll change it is Jack with his performances rest of season.

Jack and Andy have only played out of necessity based on injuries this season from what I can see.

 

I agree with Drew...   and not with bazi85

[Hambud]

First Hibs game and Morton game.

We're going round in circles. I've asked for a match where he's shown qualities that'll suggest he can be a centre back to help us get to top league/ play-off. It may as well be rhetorical, I've been to most of the games and I know there is none. He hasn't improved as a young player since he broke into squad so I don't see why he should be kept. My opinion and the only one that'll change it is Jack with his performances rest of season.

Jack and Andy have only played out of necessity based on injuries this season from what I can see.

Cant find highlights of the Hibs game and was on holiday so didn't see it but I will take your word for it.

The goal in the early morton game might be him to blame or the disorganisation of a back four bereft of any leader. None of the more experienced guys spoke to him (to encourage/console/lambast) after it went in so I'm not sure any of them thought he was solely to blame. I remember the free kick that led to the goal was needlessly giving away by one Gary Irvine.

In respect of games where he had shown he can be an asset in a squad next season. Off the top of my head, Dunfermline away when he came on at half time and was solid, Dundee United when Davies went off injured, Dundee United Cup final, Ayr United on Saturday, Qos away.

Probably my favourite one would be scottish cup v Dundee where he played his part in keeping a clean sheet against a premier league team and scored a goal.

As you say opinions. I like him you don't.

[BuddieinEK]

1 hour ago, bazil85 said:

Jack and Andy have only played out of necessity based on injuries this season from what I can see.

 

And Jack, the youngster you criticise, has been selected by the manager ahead of former internationalist Webster for whom you seem to avoid singling out for criticism in the same way.

 

Davis and MacKenzie rightly established themselves as our number one defensive partnership. I am perfectly happy with Jack Baird learning from them and filling in for them as he continues his development.

[bazil85]

And Jack, the youngster you criticise, has been selected by the manager ahead of former internationalist Webster for whom you seem to avoid singling out for criticism in the same way.
 
Davis and MacKenzie rightly established themselves as our number one defensive partnership. I am perfectly happy with Jack Baird learning from them and filling in for them as he continues his development.

Webster will be away sorry if I didn't make my thoughts on that clear. I haven't spoke about it because it doesn't seem to be a discussion point like Baird (and rightfully so)

[shull]

THE MOST BORING THREAD IN THE HISTORY OF THE BLACK AND WHITE ARMY FORUM 

 

[Hambud]

THE MOST BORING THREAD IN THE HISTORY OF THE BLACK AND WHITE ARMY FORUM [emoji38]
 

Only now that you've turned up. [emoji6]

[shull]

9 minutes ago, Hambud said:

Only now that you've turned up.

Thanks to all

Night night 

[buddiekev]

First Hibs game and Morton game.

We're going round in circles. I've asked for a match where he's shown qualities that'll suggest he can be a centre back to help us get to top league/ play-off. It may as well be rhetorical, I've been to most of the games and I know there is none. He hasn't improved as a young player since he broke into squad so I don't see why he should be kept. My opinion and the only one that'll change it is Jack with his performances rest of season.

Jack and Andy have only played out of necessity based on injuries this season from what I can see.

I don't remember the particular match, but Jack Baird made the spfl team of the week earlier this season, the same week Rob McLean touted him as a future Scotland internationalist, now I'm not saying he will indeed go on to play for Scotland, we all know unless he gets a move to a 'big' club he more than likely won't and, as with almost any young player, consistency will be an issue, but I would suggest that recognition like that suggests he is capable of being a good squad player at least.

I'm glad to see that the majority of the fans in this thread appear to be supporting Jack as in the past there have been too many instances where a section of fans have seemed almost eager to write off our young players.

[bazil85]

THE MOST BORING THREAD IN THE HISTORY OF THE BLACK AND WHITE ARMY FORUM 
 

I thought you were in a sin bin somewhere. God I miss that [emoji23]

[shull]

Exterminate this snoozefest 

[FTOF]

2 hours ago, bazil85 said:

I thought you were in a sin bin somewhere. God I miss that

I'm sure it will make a reappearance after the next inevitable meltdown.

The signs are there already.

[shull]

1 hour ago, FTOF said:

I'm sure it will make a reappearance after the next inevitable meltdown.

The signs are there already.

Lessons have been learnt buddie. 

Couldn’t be more calm and near fully contented. 

St Mirren are being made great again. 

We are all in a wonderful place. 

Lose your hatred  

[Mid Calder Saint]

Sincerely hope our players haven't read this thread as we continue our fight to stay in the Championship close this thread now encouragement is needed for all players whether they are here or not next season absolutely ridiculous to be speculating on players futures at this juncture.

[bazil85]

Sincerely hope our players haven't read this thread as we continue our fight to stay in the Championship close this thread now encouragement is needed for all players whether they are here or not next season absolutely ridiculous to be speculating on players futures at this juncture.

If this quote impacts a players work rate I would be concerned about their mentality. If it tells them something they don't already know I would be even more concerned.