The 3 Monthly Spend

[bazil85]

2 minutes ago, StuD said:

Yeah, you haven't read the Act have you Bazil85? Maybe you should try it. It's not quite The Cat in the Hat but I'm sure you could manage it. 

I would be surprised if you were more familiar with it than I am. If you are you must know it very very well, which makes an FCA complaint even more curious. 

[TsuMirren]

49 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I would be surprised if you were more familiar with it than I am. If you are you must know it very very well, which makes an FCA complaint even more curious. 

Yes, someone such as yourself who is so very obviously heavily involved in SMISA at a high level really should be familiar with it. 

I must admit, I doubt SMISA have any rules as such. More a case of ensuring the accounts will look okay, so invoices for things. Aside from that, nah. I certainly never saw a rules document, though there was plenty of talk of having one.

[Gruffalo]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

You'd think after the events of the weekend that anyone signing up to the forum would be doing so to talk about events on the pitch (and not a 3G one) - and yet here we are.

And in fairness, he's not the only one whose posts over the last few days seem to be restricted to this section of the forum despite the fact that on Saturday WE WON THE SODDING LEAGUE.

Stu. Absolutely. To think that within 1 hour of winning the league on Saturday there were contributors to this thread who thought that rather than celebrate the league win they would come on here and still moan about a vote that had already been decided on by the majority that participated.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Gruffalo

[StuD]

22 minutes ago, TsuMirren said:

Yes, someone such as yourself who is so very obviously heavily involved in SMISA at a high level really should be familiar with it. 

I must admit, I doubt SMISA have any rules as such. More a case of ensuring the accounts will look okay, so invoices for things. Aside from that, nah. I certainly never saw a rules document, though there was plenty of talk of having one.

I would imagine they used the model rules that Supporters Direct have for Independent Supporter Associations - unless they've already submitted amended rules to the FCA. If they haven't then the rules are pretty clear. 

Quote

81. The funds of the Organisation may, to the extent permitted by the law for the time being in force and with the authority of the Board, be invested: a) in the shares of any subsidiary company or society; in any manner expressly authorised by the Act; but are to not be invested otherwise. 

The Supporters Direct rules also detail the process for rule changes. Including the need for a Special General Meeting. 

Of course maybe SMISA made up and submitted it's own rules. In which case they should be available,  not just to board members, but to all members of the society. 

[billyg]

Why were none of the moaners at the AGM ???? All your concerns would have been addressed , my concerns certainly were !

[Lord Pityme]

10 minutes ago, billyg said:

Why were none of the moaners at the AGM ???? All your concerns would have been addressed , my concerns certainly were !

Pointless. Went last year, as soon as i asked questions they didnt like the meeting was shut down, not before receiving snide comments from a smisa board member over the pa, and being rounded on by the club chairman across the floor, whilst asking a question of the Smisa committee at what allegedly was the Smisa agm. 

Needs to be renamed the GLSMISA society. Its a shame really if you want to ask a question, seek clarity or challenge an organisation you are supposed to all be equal in you are a moaner. If Gordon and Smisa dont want to be held to account about how they  interfere or run smisa then they should be upfront about it and we can leave them to it.

[billyg]

2 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

Pointless. Went last year, as soon as i asked questions they didnt like the meeting was shut down, not before receiving snide comments from a smisa board member over the pa, and being rounded on by the club chairman across the floor, whilst asking a question of the Smisa committee at what allegedly was the Smisa agm. 

Needs to be renamed the GLSMISA society. Its a shame really if you want to ask a question, seek clarity or challenge an organisation you are supposed to all be equal in you are a moaner. If Gordon and Smisa dont want to be held to account about how they  interfere or run smisa then they should be upfront about it and we can leave them to it.

It's not pointless at all  , I was handed the mic and I asked about the low vote and perceived general apathy , no-one shut me up . As I said , the presentation and general feel to the meeting was a different world from the earlier efforts !

[Lord Pityme]

1 minute ago, billyg said:

It's not pointless at all  , I was handed the mic and I asked about the low vote and perceived general apathy , no-one shut me up . As I said , the presentation and general feel to the meeting was a different world from the earlier efforts !

Mibbaes i should get you to ask my questions then. Lol

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, TsuMirren said:

Yes, someone such as yourself who is so very obviously heavily involved in SMISA at a high level really should be familiar with it. 

I must admit, I doubt SMISA have any rules as such. More a case of ensuring the accounts will look okay, so invoices for things. Aside from that, nah. I certainly never saw a rules document, though there was plenty of talk of having one.

Bar paying my monthly DD I have no further direct dealings with SMISA. 

Have to say a lot of this does sound like sour grapes. 

[TsuMirren]

16 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Bar paying my monthly DD I have no further direct dealings with SMISA. 

Have to say a lot of this does sound like sour grapes. 

Sour grapes? Beeeeeeeeeeeecause? I was on the SMISA board, I resigned. I actually stood up, offered my time, enabled some community engagement and received praise for it. Exactly why would I have sour grapes? 

[StuD]

And presumably my sour grapes would be because I wanted SMISA to hold to their Buy The Buds promise of closer community involvement and SMISA decided not to bother. 

It's sad that Bazil85, Gordon Scott, Tony Fitzpatrick and SMISA seem to think that anyone who wants things done correctly is somehow running some anti St MIrren conspiracy - rather than realising that it's actually about wanting to see a strengthening of the fan buy out, wider club appeal, growth of the club, and increased revenue from streams outwith tapping up the same supporters over and over again. 

 

[djchapsticks]

1 hour ago, StuD said:

And presumably my sour grapes would be because I wanted SMISA to hold to their Buy The Buds promise of closer community involvement and SMISA decided not to bother. 

It's sad that Bazil85, Gordon Scott, Tony Fitzpatrick and SMISA seem to think that anyone who wants things done correctly is somehow running some anti St MIrren conspiracy - rather than realising that it's actually about wanting to see a strengthening of the fan buy out, wider club appeal, growth of the club, and increased revenue from streams outwith tapping up the same supporters over and over again. 

 

Didn't you leave Buy the Buds and SMiSA lock stock and barrel in a fountain of tears and snotters over a year ago?

Didn't you threaten to report SMiSA to the authorities for some sort of corruption as you apparently had watertight evidence until you realised that it would cost you money to do so and timidly backed down?

Am I correct in saying you are no way affiliated with SMiSA, BTB or St. Mirren FC in either a financial or emotional capacity?

If the answer to the final question is 'Yes'.....then why the f**k do you care and keep coming back? Are you really that hurt by the continuous spurned advances you've made at getting to be an insider in any capacity at the club down the years?

I only know you from on here but have had plenty of interactions with you over the last 15 or so years and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the reason no-one in SMiSA or the board wants your input, or indeed for you to even be involved in any capacity is because you've proven that despite being an intelligent guy and quite switched on, you'd be a f**king nightmare to work with due to the superiority complex that you have always demonstrated on here as well as your tendency to always go for the scorched earth policy and empty the pram when things don't go your way. The whole 'I'm reporting SMiSA' debacle from last year is a prime example of this until you backed down and realised you were being daft. The decade long grudge to the former chairman for (rightly or wrongly) chasing you out of his boardroom is another. You're a lifelong grudge holder as you've clearly and repeatedly shown...no-one wants to work with that, Stuart.

[StuD]

12 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Didn't you leave Buy the Buds and SMiSA lock stock and barrel in a fountain of tears and snotters over a year ago?

Didn't you threaten to report SMiSA to the authorities for some sort of corruption as you apparently had watertight evidence until you realised that it would cost you money to do so and timidly backed down?

Am I correct in saying you are no way affiliated with SMiSA, BTB or St. Mirren FC in either a financial or emotional capacity?

If the answer to the final question is 'Yes'.....then why the f**k do you care and keep coming back? Are you really that hurt by the continuous spurned advances you've made at getting to be an insider in any capacity at the club down the years?

I only know you from on here but have had plenty of interactions with you over the last 15 or so years and I can say without a shadow of a doubt that the reason no-one in SMiSA or the board wants your input, or indeed for you to even be involved in any capacity is because you've proven that despite being an intelligent guy and quite switched on, you'd be a f**king nightmare to work with due to the superiority complex that you have always demonstrated on here as well as your tendency to always go for the scorched earth policy and empty the pram when things don't go your way. The whole 'I'm reporting SMiSA' debacle from last year is a prime example of this until you backed down and realised you were being daft. The decade long grudge to the former chairman for (rightly or wrongly) chasing you out of his boardroom is another. You're a lifelong grudge holder as you've clearly and repeatedly shown...no-one wants to work with that, Stuart.

Q1 - yes I did. I resigned my membership in January 2017. I didn't cry, however I was angry that promises made to me both personally by a number of SMISA board members and in their representations during the BTB campaign were being broken. 

Q2 - Yes and no. As you often do you're mixing your assertion and opinion with fact. I complained to SMISA that I had been mislead and asked for a refund. That was denied so I appealed. When that too was rejected I went to the Financial Conduct Authority who told me that they didn't deal with individuals who had a complaint against an organisation and who referred me to Andrew Jenkin at Supporters Direct. He admitted he had a number of concerns about some of the transactions that SMISA had been making but after investigation he took the view that SMISA had broken their pledge to me as a "one off" whilst the contribution of approx £8000 to the club to help pay players wages was them protecting their asset - the 30% stake they had taken on in the club. I was never asked for money by anyone and I never backed down. I simply ran out of places to complain to. Lord Pityme has already alluded on this thread as to what happened without going into specifics and as he has clearly stated Bazil really shouldn't be taking comfort from my experience. 

Q3 - You think I've got no emotional capacity for Community Ownership of Football Clubs? Really?! 

Q4 - To correct some of the assertions being made on here about me and my complaint. You'll notice I haven't posted on any other thread and I am keeping my posts on here to a minimum. 

Q5 - I have never made any advance to be any sort of "insider" at the football club. Unlike others on here I have never made any attempt to get myself onto the SMISA board, or put myself up for election to be a fans representative on the club board. I've also not put myself forward for the Fans Council, and I was never interested in running the clubs official website. The only time anyone at the club "spurned" me was when I offered St Mirren 33% of ALL income to my then new start up - a Text Messaging business. Gilmour rejected it at the meeting you allude to where I am supposed to have been "chased from the boardroom". In truth what happened was a few months later I was contacted by an "employee" of the club who asked me if I'd be willing to tell them how to set up a text messaging business for the club - which I refused to do, obviously. And a couple of years later - after I'd sold my business - I was invited back to the club to talk Campbell Kennedy, Norrie Jamieson and Kenny Pointon through how to set up a text messaging service for the club. This time I gave them the assistance they required including the names of contacts and suppliers but nothing happened with it for 8 more years by which point the world had moved on to using mobile internet on 3g phones. 

As for the rest of your post it seems to all be your assertion and opinion which you are entitled to. I like things done properly which can be a nightmare for those around me, of course, but I'm also a grafter who gets results - something that seems to have been appreciated by many of the people I have worked with on a number of projects both professionally and  as a volunteer. And as for your assertion about grudge holding - you can believe whatever you want, but the people who I remember arguing with me most vehemently in January 2017 were Buddiecat, TsuMirren and Lord Pityme, yet today we appear to be on the same side. 

[bonzoboys]

Not having made the SMISA AGM i am cautious about commenting on any SMISA responce.

Since asking in my last post, i am still not sure as a 12 pound payer whether I am actually a member of SMISA or not.

I am still no clearer as to what is truth and to quote Mr Trump false news.

In simple terms, I and I suspect many others who have been reading this latest episode will be watching a lot closer to see that the money for the astroturf is genuinely being paid back in installments from the monthly two pounds.

Having got us in to such confusion, SMISA have a huge responsibility to be seen to be totally above reproach on this matter going forward.

Please help restore our confidence in the BTB plan.  we are at a great place currently on the pitch, lets combine that with some positive thoughts about the way forward to fan ownership.

COYS and BTB

[Lord Pityme]

I think you can see (if you strip away the raw emotion in posts like mine and a few others) that there is a common theme of mis-trust being expressed by a number of members on here and elsewhere. Even though some of those posters voted for the proposal, they still expressed their dismay over the handling, and what the future holds for smisa, and fan ownership of SMFC.

whatever your position, surely most reasonable people can see that a watershed moment has passed whereby solemn promises were broken because the club chairman wanted smisa funds now.

again taking the emotion out of the situation for a moment, given the smisa board have opted to break guarantees to give the chairman what he wants, how will they fair in future, possibly more emotionally charged issues, and will the decisions they take be liable to such open interference, and easy manipulation?

running a successful football club isnt easy, running one that might be short on finance, as well as success is, as we know a viscious downward spiral of apathy, accusation, mis-trust and contempt. If this is the standard of process and decision making we can expect going forward, how the heck do they expect to keep the majority onside?

for me, and it seems a few others, the way this proposal was handled, positioned and poorly conceived demonstrated the smisa board will 'Jump' everytime the chairman shouts it, without any really thought as to where they will land, or indeed what they will land in.

most members ideas and suggestions for the £2 pot spend never see the light of day, or are given the reprehensible "we need a fully costed and certified viable by the club certificate" to even consider your suggestion. Or indeed when a local youth team who offer free coaching, membership and participation seek a smisa vote the chairman is all over it insisting that money should come to SMFC.

however when the club asks for tens of thousands it is facilitated within days..!

we need a board in Smisa that will meet its primary aim to work first and foremost for the benefit of its members and community. Ask yourself carefully..? Is this what we've got..?

[StuD]

If you are paying your £12 per month you are definitely a member. 

£10 of that money was supposed to be going to a ring fenced fund to buy shares in the club. £2 of that money was supposed to be going into a discretionary fund that the members would vote on how to spend every 3 months on "St Mirren related community work outwith the club". In September 2016 that changed after the SMISA board sent out a survey asking members for their spending priorities.  As they often do they set out the survey in rather a strange way - splitting stadium facilities into three different options. 559 members responded and the option deemed "Not an appropriate use of this money" by the largest percentage of those who voted was "The first team playing budget". Yet three months later - the very next vote - SMISA requested that the full discretionary pot be given to the club to boost the first team playing budget. That's not fake news - the survey results are shown here.  https://www.smisa.net/images/docs/Surveys/Data_Q1_160918.pdf. It was that vote that saw me resign my membership. 

Like you say on the pitch things are fantastic. The team has, for the most part, played entertaining football. The club has won the league in a canter against most expectations - not least mine. And in the last three transfer windows St Mirren have managed to pull in income from the sale of players - Lewis Morgan being loaned back to the club. My complaint about the use of ring fenced funds is mostly procedural based. I'm disappointed that the £23 per month SMISA took from me for five months that should have been ring fenced for share purchase is now being used for other reasons. But there are bigger concerns. The lack of transparency, the lack of community benefit, the apparent lack of planning for the future, the failure to publish minutes of meetings, the allegation that even SMISA board members don't get to see the results of these ballots, and the over bearing influence being put on the group by one member who also just happens to be the majority shareholder at the Ltd Company SMISA keep putting money into is far more concerning in my opinion. 

 

[bazil85]

16 hours ago, TsuMirren said:

Sour grapes? Beeeeeeeeeeeecause? I was on the SMISA board, I resigned. I actually stood up, offered my time, enabled some community engagement and received praise for it. Exactly why would I have sour grapes? 

Nope not over any of that, over the results of a vote not going certain peoples way. 

[bazil85]

16 hours ago, StuD said:

And presumably my sour grapes would be because I wanted SMISA to hold to their Buy The Buds promise of closer community involvement and SMISA decided not to bother. 

It's sad that Bazil85, Gordon Scott, Tony Fitzpatrick and SMISA seem to think that anyone who wants things done correctly is somehow running some anti St MIrren conspiracy - rather than realising that it's actually about wanting to see a strengthening of the fan buy out, wider club appeal, growth of the club, and increased revenue from streams outwith tapping up the same supporters over and over again. 

 

We know your thoughts, you've said it over several usernames.

[StuD]

11 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

We know your thoughts, you've said it over several usernames.

Aye - Stuart DIckson, StuD and Bellside Bud. I've never tried to hide my identity. What's your real name Bazil?

[bazil85]

9 minutes ago, StuD said:

Aye - Stuart DIckson, StuD and Bellside Bud. I've never tried to hide my identity. What's your real name Bazil?

Scott, nice to meet you (First person that's ever asked me directly what my name was, no hiding at all). I sit in W1 and I'm more than happy to have a chat face to face/ over a pint (Not a threat by the way, I've seen a number of people jump to that ridiculous conclusion on here in different circumstances when someone has suggested this) My username (Bazil) is what the majority of my close friends called me when I first joined here. 

You'll excuse me not putting my second name on an internet forum of course, your choice to do so but I would never recommend it to anyone. Hindesight is a wonderful thing and as much as data protection wasn't as much on peoples radar when B&Warmy was launched, it's certainly not a great idea in 2018. 

On your big long post about getting your money back. I have to say for someone that's hinted at being pretty switched on with regulation and legal issues, it's a bit surprising you didn't just follow a DDI claim. I'm also surprised if you followed all the steps you claim to have followed, not one person you spoke to suggested it. 

[linwood buddie]

27 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Scott, nice to meet you (First person that's ever asked me directly what my name was, no hiding at all). I sit in W1 and I'm more than happy to have a chat face to face/ over a pint (Not a threat by the way, I've seen a number of people jump to that ridiculous conclusion on here in different circumstances when someone has suggested this) My username (Bazil) is what the majority of my close friends called me when I first joined here. 

You'll excuse me not putting my second name on an internet forum of course, your choice to do so but I would never recommend it to anyone. Hindesight is a wonderful thing and as much as data protection wasn't as much on peoples radar when B&Warmy was launched, it's certainly not a great idea in 2018. 

On your big long post about getting your money back. I have to say for someone that's hinted at being pretty switched on with regulation and legal issues, it's a bit surprising you didn't just follow a DDI claim. I'm also surprised if you followed all the steps you claim to have followed, not one person you spoke to suggested it. 

Who's buying the pints?

[shull]

21 minutes ago, linwood buddie said:

Who's buying the pints?

Never mind the pints. I am in W1. 

Send up some pies, Bazzy buddie. 

[StuD]

13 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Scott, nice to meet you (First person that's ever asked me directly what my name was, no hiding at all). I sit in W1 and I'm more than happy to have a chat face to face/ over a pint (Not a threat by the way, I've seen a number of people jump to that ridiculous conclusion on here in different circumstances when someone has suggested this) My username (Bazil) is what the majority of my close friends called me when I first joined here. 

You'll excuse me not putting my second name on an internet forum of course, your choice to do so but I would never recommend it to anyone. Hindesight is a wonderful thing and as much as data protection wasn't as much on peoples radar when B&Warmy was launched, it's certainly not a great idea in 2018. 

On your big long post about getting your money back. I have to say for someone that's hinted at being pretty switched on with regulation and legal issues, it's a bit surprising you didn't just follow a DDI claim. I'm also surprised if you followed all the steps you claim to have followed, not one person you spoke to suggested it. 

A DDI claim never crossed my mind Scott, to be honest, and no - no-one suggested it until now. 

M3 for me usually when I go to matches, although we have been known to move to M4 on occasion. I would imagine I'd be quite easy to spot in a crowd though. I've met or been introduced to a few people on here over the years and never found it threatening. Bill Lees was going to hang me from the Blackpool Tower apparently and Cockles wanted to meet me so I could call him a Natsi to his face. Sadly neither of those two turned up. I don't often go to the pub on match days though - usually because I have to drive home, or to go on to work. More than happy to arrange something though if there is something specific you want to chat about. 

[Smithers Jones]

18 hours ago, Lord Pityme said:

Pointless. Went last year, as soon as i asked questions they didnt like the meeting was shut down, not before receiving snide comments from a smisa board member over the pa, and being rounded on by the club chairman across the floor, whilst asking a question of the Smisa committee at what allegedly was the Smisa agm. 

Needs to be renamed the GLSMISA society. Its a shame really if you want to ask a question, seek clarity or challenge an organisation you are supposed to all be equal in you are a moaner. If Gordon and Smisa dont want to be held to account about how they  interfere or run smisa then they should be upfront about it and we can leave them to it.

You came out with this nonsense not long after last year's meeting and it didn't take long for those in attendance to make it clear that none of this actually happened. None of it.

[bazil85]

35 minutes ago, StuD said:

A DDI claim never crossed my mind Scott, to be honest, and no - no-one suggested it until now. 

M3 for me usually when I go to matches, although we have been known to move to M4 on occasion. I would imagine I'd be quite easy to spot in a crowd though. I've met or been introduced to a few people on here over the years and never found it threatening. Bill Lees was going to hang me from the Blackpool Tower apparently and Cockles wanted to meet me so I could call him a Natsi to his face. Sadly neither of those two turned up. I don't often go to the pub on match days though - usually because I have to drive home, or to go on to work. More than happy to arrange something though if there is something specific you want to chat about. 

Happy to discuss you through a DDI if you genuinely feel cheated, however the chat would likely be very short giving the simplicity of DDI.

I’d also air on the side of caution that if SMISA feel they have taken the money legally and can back-up such claim, they’ll request the account is recharged in full.