The 3 Monthly Spend

[HSS]

27 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

I voted for option 1.

My point is, the voting choices mean options, I can't see how it's a bad thing. People might not think the money should be spent on items they feel the club should be buying but others might think it's an absolutely fine reason. The beauty of democracy.  

The selection of Option 3 not only gives X amount of under privileged people a Xmas to remember but would also give the Club some brilliant publicity.I remember Hearts and Hibs being all over the News on Xmas Day  last year for the same initiative.

How anybuddie can put a set of goals in front of giving to those less fortunate is beyond me?

Bahzil Humbug.

[billyg]

15 minutes ago, HSS said:

The selection of Option 3 not only gives X amount of under privileged people a Xmas to remember but would also give the Club some brilliant publicity.I remember Hearts and Hibs being all over the News on Xmas Day  last year for the same initiative.

How anybuddie can put a set of goals in front of giving to those less fortunate is beyond me?

Bahzil Humbug.

Agreed 100% , it's a no-brainer. We need some decent publicity for a change !

[bazil85]

23 minutes ago, HSS said:

The selection of Option 3 not only gives X amount of under privileged people a Xmas to remember but would also give the Club some brilliant publicity.I remember Hearts and Hibs being all over the News on Xmas Day  last year for the same initiative.

How anybuddie can put a set of goals in front of giving to those less fortunate is beyond me?

Bahzil Humbug.

It's a good option yeah and I'm sure there will still be charitable stuff done by St Mirren over the festive period and beyond. For me, my main priority for this money is the development of SMFC and our next bunch of youth academy graduates. 

I think it'll likely be tight between one and three this vote though and will be happy either way.

[HSS]

24 minutes ago, cockles1987 said:

I've still to vote. Something I'd like to know is the numbers involved with the Xmas dinner.

Has anyone asked SMISA yet? I'll be emailing this now and will publish the reply.

You'll get a reply in Jan.

[melmac]

Graeme

As soon as you realise that SMISA are going to do what they have always done; listen to  no-one bar their own clique; and keep the money going to the club in whatever fashion, you'll realise the best place for your money is in your pocket.

Unless their is a groundswell of people wanting to challenge SMISA on how they are going about things, then nothing will happen.

I once thought SMISA would be good be for the club but given they cannot / will not comply with proper corporate governance (giving shares away; no auditers; no proper voting at meetings; no minutes of meetings etc etc etc), I fear for the future of the club. Laugh if you will but it will be the members picking up the tab if / when things go belly up.

[bazil85]

15 minutes ago, melmac said:

Graeme

As soon as you realise that SMISA are going to do what they have always done; listen to  no-one bar their own clique; and keep the money going to the club in whatever fashion, you'll realise the best place for your money is in your pocket.

Unless their is a groundswell of people wanting to challenge SMISA on how they are going about things, then nothing will happen.

I once thought SMISA would be good be for the club but given they cannot / will not comply with proper corporate governance (giving shares away; no auditers; no proper voting at meetings; no minutes of meetings etc etc etc), I fear for the future of the club. Laugh if you will but it will be the members picking up the tab if / when things go belly up.

How do you suggest they do that if say option 3 is selected?

By challenge SMISA, you mean challenge the will of the majority vote? What a strange notion. 

We've been over that old argument so many times, SMISA are complying. If they weren't Mr Dickson's attempt to blow the whistle would have went somewhere. 

[Lord Pityme]

I'd like to see Basil field the questions at a smisa meeting:

First member question: "do the committee feel they are being open & transparent?"

Basil: "ah yet another feckin moaning Stuart Dickson bastuirt. How! It basttarden democracy,"

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

I'd like to see Basil field the questions at a smisa meeting:

First member question: "do the committee feel they are being open & transparent?"

Basil: "ah yet another feckin moaning Stuart Dickson bastuirt. How! It basttarden democracy,"

There’s a massive difference between lobbying for more transparency (and actually detailing what it is you’re asking for) in a productive manner, through the right channels and purposely being negative about every element of BTB showing a clear vendetta.

Guess where you fit in? 

You cant even bring yourself to praise the positives regarding option 3. A community option that ticks all the boxes you’ve been banging on about for over two years. ‘But but but hand driers and GLS might back someone in the SMISA elections’

Us V Them 

[Kombibuddie]

12 minutes ago, melmac said:

Graeme

As soon as you realise that SMISA are going to do what they have always done; listen to  no-one bar their own clique; and keep the money going to the club in whatever fashion, you'll realise the best place for your money is in your pocket.

Unless their is a groundswell of people wanting to challenge SMISA on how they are going about things, then nothing will happen.

I once thought SMISA would be good be for the club but given they cannot / will not comply with proper corporate governance (giving shares away; no auditers; no proper voting at meetings; no minutes of meetings etc etc etc), I fear for the future of the club. Laugh if you will but it will be the members picking up the tab if / when things go belly up.

I have been there for some time. Quite a few months but not been ready to yet throw in the towel.

Was mentioned earlier, I am now chairman of the youth football club I manage a team for. That came 2 years ago, when it was apparent, certain members of the then committee were acting as if the club was their own little fiefdom.

I challenged it and was met with the question from the then Chairman "are you going to do it" 

Yes was my answer and with that, the entire committee resigned on block and I was left with a committee to sort out. Obviously, before going into the meeting, I had garnered support and knew already, who would be proposed into which position if the situation arose that an entirely new committee needed to be formed.

3 hours ago, bazil85 said:

What exactly do you want to see? If you want to be that much involved, then get involved with the meetings and lend your services to SMISA. It is completely unrealistic to have every shred of information regarding the proposals just because you might not believe some fans want to see funds spent on our facilities or youth academy. I'm more than confident if you reached out to SMISA they could answer your questions. 

• What have you actively done then to get the questions you require? I feel SMISA give enough evidence in their updates, if you want more, I'd expect you to be proactive about it but instead you just bang on about it on here from what I can tell

Bazil, you really are struggling with the concept of transparency in this. I am looking for some additional information, to understand why what made the ballot and why something else didn't. I am not looking for war and peace on SMISA matters but right now, their lack of communication with their paying members is appallingly bad. You and others may be satisfied enough but me and  others are not. SMISA quite simply refuse to evolve. In response to the above

• What have you actively done then to get the questions you require?
• I emailed SMISA that elicited a telephone conversation with a senior member of the SMISA committee. Some things he said, I agreed with and some things I didn't.
• I'd expect you to be proactive about it but instead you just bang on about it on here from what I can tell
• I live in London. perhaps you struggle with that concept too. It really isn't so easy just to pop out for a few hours. If I was local, I would most certainly be up for being a whole lot more involved. I've got previous for getting involved (explained above) Unfortunately, 450 miles keeps my involvement down to just banging on here about things.

• 4 hours ago, bazil85 said:

   Evidence is the recurring them through here. That and transparency. Please refer to my previous comment about SMISA communication evidencing the options and decision making process. Job done for both them & me/us.  If SMISA produced evidence of their decision making process, it would negate the chance for negative comments and be so much easier for all of us to choose either Option 1, Option 2, Option 3 or Option 4.

  So if option 5 - Carry the money over until BTB is completed was on this months communication. Would you have banged on about evidence to why that's an option? Seems perfectly clear to me you're using evidence and transparency as a safety blanket for ideas you don't like. 

  I believe every option should be evidenced as to why it has made the ballot. My suggestion for Option 5, in this case has been explained by myself countless times for its validity in inclusion. Your dismissiveness as a "safety blanket" is derisory and lacking of understanding. That's unfortunate, that you appear not to understand.

  ,

  7 hours ago, bazil85 said:

  Options are suggested, priced and presented. I don't see anything in these options that don't give enough information. Some people like yourself might want to see every single detail but it's not practical. My understanding is Q&A sessions and open meetings would answer your questions if you wanted to attend. 

  Show us the evidence. I've not seen it. Any of it. Options being Suggested? By whom? Priced?? does anything go out to tender, looking for competitive prices?  Presented? to the membership for the vote? I'd expect your spin on that is 1 out of 3 aint bad and what are we going on about. Back to the evidence. Where is the transparency? SMISA has a responsibility to keep it's members informed. 1 AGM a year doesn't cut it and neither does your dismissive comment about going to the meetings or Q&A sessions.  I can't just pop along to a meeting or a Q&A session as I live in London but what about the  proper Far Flung Buds?  Not so easy just to pop down to any of it. What exactly do you want to see? If you want to be that much involved, then get involved with the meetings and lend your services to SMISA. It is completely unrealistic to have every shred of information regarding the proposals just because you might not believe some fans want to see funds spent on our facilities or youth academy. I'm more than confident if you reached out to SMISA they could answer your questions.  What have you actively done then to get the questions you require? I feel SMISA give enough evidence in their updates, if you want more, I'd expect you to be proactive about it but instead you just bang on about it on here from what I can tell. 

  Simple really, share with the members, minutes of the SMISA meetings. It will give some (folk like me) some insight into what decisions are made and how they are made. Transparent and open. Folk like me can read them, digest them and have some understanding. Others who are happy to pay and aren't fussed how things are done can ignore them, if they want.

  Proactive!! Would love to be but until SMISA relocates to East London (I'll say it again in case you failed to spot it again), unfortunately, my wife has no plans for us to move back to Scotland until our children are finished secondary schooling.

   

 

[Kombibuddie]

8 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Some people (including myself) have made it clear, their number one option is now to prepare for the future when The Buds is Bought. To dismiss that option with "the money was always intended to be spent"  I have concerns for a body (SMISA) that refuses to even consider adjusting its position. The inception of the £2 pot was during a time when St Mirren were in a far worse financial position than it is now. Which brings us back to The Club budgeting for the essentials required to function as a football club. SMISA should have an ongoing review process and be willing to consider (with member approval) suggested changes. It doesn't. It is a blanket "The money was always intended to be spent. When the Buds is Bought, where's the money for all the maintenance coming from? Will the SMISA pot of gold cash still be as healthy as it is now? No doubt, some folk will continue paying into SMISA, some won't. Where is the evidence of how many will and what money is projected to be available via SMISA once the buds is bought?  They make money, they spend money. If we have isolated events in the future we will deal with them but the concern is completely unfounded when the evidence used relates to an £8k pot a quarter. That's probably slightly more than we pay a first team player.  We actually have an added advantage when we're fan owned over a number of other clubs, we won't have an owner using the club profits as a source of their own income, have you considered that or just the negatives as usual? 

Interestingly, the £8K pots per quarter, if rolled over into a pot for when the Buds is Bought could amass to a fairly significant fund. 8 Years or so still left of the 10 year plan to buy the buds. You dismiss my looking to the future as negative. You couldn't be further from the truth but you are demonstrating time and time again, you have a severe lack of understanding of other peoples thoughts and opinions.

SMISA could amass a significant fighting fund (so to speak) for when it has control of The Club. St Mirren FC has generated significant monies, way above anything else it has had in many many years, The Club doesn't need to be pilfering SMISA funds or Quarterly pots when it can well afford to pay for the club related options itself.

 

[Kombibuddie]

Bazil

£8K per quarter saved over 7 years would realise a fund of £224000  ((£256000 over 8 years) for SMISA to invest in the Club when The Buds is Bought. To me, that is better option than buying goals for the academy, for buying footballs for the 1st team to train with etc etc.

I made that bit nice and big to make sure you do not misconstrue my opinion as being negative about The Club or SMISA.

Imagine, what can be done, when it is SMISA's watch, if they had a decent pot to hit the ground running with? How negative is that??

I'll hasten to add, along the way, some cracking options might be sprung that captures the imagination for the £8K pot and we have that option to support them but spunking the money, every quarter is not a good use of that money.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Graeme Aitken

[bazil85]

21 minutes ago, Graeme Aitken said:

I have been there for some time. Quite a few months but not been ready to yet throw in the towel.

Was mentioned earlier, I am now chairman of the youth football club I manage a team for. That came 2 years ago, when it was apparent, certain members of the then committee were acting as if the club was their own little fiefdom.

I challenged it and was met with the question from the then Chairman "are you going to do it" 

Yes was my answer and with that, the entire committee resigned on block and I was left with a committee to sort out. Obviously, before going into the meeting, I had garnered support and knew already, who would be proposed into which position if the situation arose that an entirely new committee needed to be formed.

Bazil, you really are struggling with the concept of transparency in this. I am looking for some additional information, to understand why what made the ballot and why something else didn't. I am not looking for war and peace on SMISA matters but right now, their lack of communication with their paying members is appallingly bad. You and others may be satisfied enough but me and  others are not. SMISA quite simply refuse to evolve. In response to the above

• What have you actively done then to get the questions you require?
• I emailed SMISA that elicited a telephone conversation with a senior member of the SMISA committee. Some things he said, I agreed with and some things I didn't.
• I'd expect you to be proactive about it but instead you just bang on about it on here from what I can tell
• I live in London. perhaps you struggle with that concept too. It really isn't so easy just to pop out for a few hours. If I was local, I would most certainly be up for being a whole lot more involved. I've got previous for getting involved (explained above) Unfortunately, 450 miles keeps my involvement down to just banging on here about things.
• ,

   

 

You can say you live in London as many times as you want and claim I don’t understand your concerns but it sounds like you took steps to get the information you wanted by contacting SMISA. So what exactly are you still moaning about? I imagine anyone that wanted the information could do the same. 

I don’t personally think we need or it would benefit having a detailed explanation of the choices. But then again I’m not automatically negative about everything and anything BTB related. Sounds like you wanted extra info, reaches out for extra info and now are still moaning about the extra info... strange 

[bazil85]

23 minutes ago, Graeme Aitken said:

 

Yep, roughly £32k a year for the next seven/ eight years would be a decent bit of money. (Maybe about four players wages) like I say, it hasn’t been a popular option to role it over. Spending money now to improve the team/ youth/ infrastructure always seems to win, good chance this quarter the community option will win. 

I have no issue with the validity of rolling over the money as much as it wouldn’t be my choice. Just possibly something you have to accept, that it’s not been a popular choice? 

[bazil85]

23 minutes ago, Graeme Aitken said:

Bazil

£8K per quarter saved over 7 years would realise a fund of £224000  ((£256000 over 8 years) for SMISA to invest in the Club when The Buds is Bought. To me, that is better option than buying goals for the academy, for buying footballs for the 1st team to train with etc etc.

I made that bit nice and big to make sure you do not misconstrue my opinion as being negative about The Club or SMISA.

Imagine, what can be done, when it is SMISA's watch, if they had a decent pot to hit the ground running with? How negative is that??

I'll hasten to add, along the way, some cracking options might be sprung that captures the imagination for the £8K pot and we have that option to support them but spunking the money, every quarter is not a good use of that money.

Yet again, I have no issue with that being what you want to do. That money wouldn’t seem so big if as a club we are in a lower league of football than currently in seven years time though I would say. 

My main issue is with you thinking the other options shouldn’t be there or blasting them because your option isn’t. 

[shull]

3 hours ago, Graeme Aitken said:

Bazil

£8K per quarter saved over 7 years would realise a fund of £224000  ((£256000 over 8 years) for SMISA to invest in the Club when The Buds is Bought. To me, that is better option than buying goals for the academy, for buying footballs for the 1st team to train with etc etc.

I made that bit nice and big to make sure you do not misconstrue my opinion as being negative about The Club or SMISA.

Imagine, what can be done, when it is SMISA's watch, if they had a decent pot to hit the ground running with? How negative is that??

I'll hasten to add, along the way, some cracking options might be sprung that captures the imagination for the £8K pot and we have that option to support them but spunking the money, every quarter is not a good use of that money.

Every penny should saved unless there is a real damn emergency

[faraway saint]

7 minutes ago, shull said:

Every penny should saved unless there is a real damn emergency

What, exactly, would an emergency be? 

[shull]

50 minutes ago, faraway saint said:

What, exactly, would an emergency be? 

I guess we would know if it happened to arrive.

[shull]

Let the SMISA pot grow.

Our  Club could have covered every option , every month very easily if they hadn't wasted so much cash on the Management & Playing side of St Mirren Football Club.

Fecking Christmas Dinners every day of the year for the needy with the money The Club has blown.

DON'T SUBSIDISE THE FECKING LOSERS WITH SUPPORTERS GOOD MONEY.

[shull]

Should be fecking Part Time anyway.

Hardcore of 2000 and throwing money about like we're PSG

[munoz]

11 minutes ago, shull said:

Should be fecking Part Time anyway.

Hardcore of 2000 and throwing money about like we're PSG

Pound Shillings Guinea?

[Kombibuddie]

12 hours ago, bazil85 said:

Yet again, I have no issue with that being what you want to do. That money wouldn’t seem so big if as a club we are in a lower league of football than currently in seven years time though I would say. 

My main issue is with you thinking the other options shouldn’t be there or blasting them because your option isn’t. 

the most laughable thing I have read on BAWA for some time.

You are just making things up

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by Graeme Aitken

[Kombibuddie]

10 hours ago, bazil85 said:

By challenge SMISA, you mean challenge the will of the majority vote? What a strange notion. 

Demonstrating again, you really don't understand. Seriously, you haven't a clue what you are wittering on about if you think Challenge SMISA means that.

dearie dearie me. Nurse!!

[Kombibuddie]

12 hours ago, bazil85 said:

You can say you live in London as many times as you want and claim I don’t understand your concerns but it sounds like you took steps to get the information you wanted by contacting SMISA. So what exactly are you still moaning about? I imagine anyone that wanted the information could do the same. 

I don’t personally think we need or it would benefit having a detailed explanation of the choices. But then again I’m not automatically negative about everything and anything BTB related. Sounds like you wanted extra info, reaches out for extra info and now are still moaning about the extra info... strange 

Once again, you demonstrate an inability to interpret others posts correctly. This thread is littered with your misunderstandings. Shame really but you are adding the square root of absolutely nothing to this debate by regurgitating the same old bile time and time again.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Graeme Aitken

[bazil85]

8 hours ago, Graeme Aitken said:

the most laughable thing I have read on BAWA for some time.

You are just making things up

 

The increased revenue while we are in the premier league, is more than the quoted figure. If we were in the championship, we would make less than the value we could save up by retaining SMISA income. 

You don’t think that’s true? 

Edited October 27, 2018 by bazil85

[bazil85]

8 hours ago, Graeme Aitken said:

Demonstrating again, you really don't understand. Seriously, you haven't a clue what you are wittering on about if you think Challenge SMISA means that.

dearie dearie me. Nurse!!

I think it’s pretty clear I have understood and since you don’t have a come back to it, you’re just deflecting.