General Election 8th June

[Callum Gilhooley]

2 hours ago, shull said:

Although, on a personal note.

 

Margaret Thatcher & Theresa May

 

Threesome  

 

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I hate to tell you that one of them is dead.

So....that would be a pretty horrendous threesome.

Still if you can get it up at your age who am I to criticise.....

Which one ? 

[Tommy]

2 top advisors out so she can hang on to her job    Somehow I don't think we will see them down the social since somebody with Tories connection will look after them

[oaksoft]

2 hours ago, antrin said:

I recall that once upon a time, Sturgeon said an indy ref would be a once in a generation thing.  She lied.  She changed her mind.

I also recall Sturgeon beating May aboot the heid cos May "did not have a mandate to govern".

So it strikes me that of all the people on the planet, Sturgeon should have been best placed to recognise that May, like herself, was a politician and thus highly likely to change her mind, especially when Sturgeon was asking herself for another election..

Lying  and wrong-footing the opposition is second-nature to politicians.  Sturgeon utterly, naively miscalculated and should have known better.

A pedant such as yourself should know the difference between telling a lie and changing your mind.

Having said that, she was wrong IMO to call for IndyRef2.

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

 

Which one ? 

Oh dear, the low brow stuff continues......

Your comment made me spit my tea across the room though so well played.

Edited June 10, 2017 by oaksoft

[stlucifer]

13 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

A pedant such as yourself should know the difference between telling a lie and changing your mind.

Having said that, she was wrong IMO to call for IndyRef2.

My point of view the independence referendum call was well thought out UNTIL May did one of her now famous U turns after assuring the country it would be bad for the country to do so. NS thought it was electorally safe as there wouldn't be an election until after the date she wanted.

If it wasn't for those pesky, nasty, self serving Tories!

[stlucifer]

1 hour ago, Callum Gilhooley said:

 

Which one ? 

 

16 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Oh dear, the low brow stuff continues......

Your comment made me spit my tea across the room though so well played.

In fairness, one is dead and the other is dead in the water.

[shull]

4 hours ago, windae cleaner said:

Ulster isn't in Britain

My mistake, should have said United Kingdom.

[salmonbuddie]

I recall that once upon a time, Sturgeon said an indy ref would be a once in a generation thing.  She lied.  She changed her mind.

Can you give us proof of her saying that? I recall Salmond saying he believed it was a once in a generation opportunity, not Sturgeon. If she did, did she genuinely believe, like me, that it wouldn't happen again for some time and then the Conservatives played the Brexit card.

[saintnextlifetime]

16 hours ago, windae cleaner said:

Ulster isn't in Britain

Yeh it is an ambiguous one . Ulster isn't part of Britain or Greater Britain but it is included in the British Isles but nowadays it is only the 6 county's  of Ulster out of the 9 that actually comprise Ulster. .

Edited June 11, 2017 by saintnextlifetime

[stlucifer]

12 hours ago, salmonbuddie said:

 

Can you give us proof of her saying that? I recall Salmond saying he believed it was a once in a generation opportunity, not Sturgeon. If she did, did she genuinely believe, like me, that it wouldn't happen again for some time and then the Conservatives played the Brexit card.

 

On many occasions she used the terms, "Once in a generation", or, "Once in a lifetime". I think you are right though that, when she was saying it, there was no way she would have envisage such a difference of opinion in such an important issue as "Brexit". She has every right to attempt to look after Scotland and it is entirely logical to suggest that we should have the choice of England/Wales or Europe.

[saintnextlifetime]

1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said:

 

The six counties make up Northern Ireland, not Ulster.

 

Woooooooooooosh. .

[saintnextlifetime]

20 hours ago, Buddymarvellous said:

I think we Nicola was unlucky - remember she was only demanding the right to hold an Indy2 and expected it to be a couple of years down the line once Brexit deal was clear.

It would never happen unless she was sure from opinion polls that she would win it. 

Where she lost out was the calling of a snap election in the middle of all the debate - this gave the opposition a big stick to hit her with instead of putting forward clear policies of their own.

Despite little or no movement in the opinion polls wee nicky was going for it anyway . Previously she had said that she would be looking for 60% in the opinion polls before calling for another Indy Ref , however she saw the Euro exit poll as a chance to call for another Indy poll anyway because she has a love affair with Europe . .

In a nutshell , she is happy to give away Scottish sovereignty to Berlin , just as long as Westminster doesn't have any of it. .

[Guest TPAFKATS]

May won't see out the week as PM

[antrin]

16 hours ago, salmonbuddie said:

 

 

Can you give us proof of her saying that? I recall Salmond saying he believed it was a once in a generation opportunity, not Sturgeon. If she did, did she genuinely believe, like me, that it wouldn't happen again for some time and then the Conservatives played the Brexit card.

 

Fill yer boots...

3 hours ago, stlucifer said:

On many occasions she used the terms, "Once in a generation", or, "Once in a lifetime". I think you are right though that, when she was saying it, there was no way she would have envisage such a difference of opinion in such an important issue as "Brexit". She has every right to attempt to look after Scotland and it is entirely logical to suggest that we should have the choice of England/Wales or Europe.

If she couldn't envisage support for Brexit and May seeking a mandate (as Sturgeon asked her to do) then she was very short-sighted and inept politically.  And enough voters in the recent election have shown that, in their opinion she was not attempting to look after Scotland.

 

As snlt points out above, going cap in hand to Berlin rather than London doesn't seem like an idyllic exchange...  Is that really looking after Scotland?

 

I fully understand and empathise with the alienation from the soft underbelly of the Home Counties and Westminster elites, but cutting off noses to spite faces is crassly simplistic.

[saintnextlifetime]

1 hour ago, antrin said:

Fill yer boots...

If she couldn't envisage support for Brexit and May seeking a mandate (as Sturgeon asked her to do) then she was very short-sighted and inept politically.  And enough voters in the recent election have shown that, in their opinion she was not attempting to look after Scotland.

 

As snlt points out above, going cap in hand to Berlin rather than London doesn't seem like an idyllic exchange...  Is that really looking after Scotland?

 

I fully understand and empathise with the alienation from the soft underbelly of the Home Counties and Westminster elites, but cutting off noses to spite faces is crassly simplistic.

The only reason she went on about the will of the Scottish people , is that it suited her European Union agenda. Why a Nationalist would want to give up their sovereignty to Berlin in place of Westminster is irrational . Being in a union , any union , as far as I'm concerned is not what independence is about . .

wee nicky as far as l can see has damaged the Cause and it could take years to recover the position they had , just over a year ago. .

[mcdowell76]

Folk talking about May resigning.

And they are correct, so she should.

But worth remembering that she won 42% of the UK vote, up from 36% in 2015, the highest Tory vote share since Thatcher in 1979.

Sturgeon won 37% of the Scottish vote, down from 50% in 2015.

If May should go then Sturgeon needs to go as well.

The collapse of the SNP is down to her decision to call for a second referendum. She miscalculated big time.

 

Edited June 11, 2017 by mcdowell76

[mcdowell76]

5 hours ago, saintnextlifetime said:

The only reason she went on about the will of the Scottish people , is that it suited her European Union agenda. Why a Nationalist would want to give up their sovereignty to Berlin in place of Westminster is irrational . Being in a union , any union , as far as I'm concerned is not what independence is about . .

 

She couldn't care less about the EU. That is just an excuse.

They go on about how leaving the EU will ruin the economy and cost jobs. Why? Because we will be putting up barriers to trade that don't exist at the moment?

Well surely leaving the UK would be even worse?

The support for the SNP is down to racism. Pure and simple.

[stlucifer]

2 hours ago, antrin said:

 

If she couldn't envisage support for Brexit and May seeking a mandate (as Sturgeon asked her to do) then she was very short-sighted and inept politically.  And enough voters in the recent election have shown that, in their opinion she was not attempting to look after Scotland.

 

As snlt points out above, going cap in hand to Berlin rather than London doesn't seem like an idyllic exchange...  Is that really looking after Scotland?

 

I fully understand and empathise with the alienation from the soft underbelly of the Home Counties and Westminster elites, but cutting off noses to spite faces is crassly simplistic.

May had said previously that there would be no election. NS took that as gospel. (Folly in hindsight but, you know what they say about hindsight). The way it was seen as panning out was May going for a hard Brexit and the Scottish Government demanding a choice to protect our interests. The crazy thing is that the SNP could have nipped it in the bud during the campaign by simply saying to the country the decision was made at a Scottish level and that the Scottish Parliament was where it could be changed. Tell Dugdale and Davidson to concentrate on real policies and stop using the referendum as a shield to hide the lack of policies in their manifesto.  Instead we saw the SNP trying to defend a Scottish policy during a UK election.

[stlucifer]

16 minutes ago, mcdowell76 said:

Folk talking about May resigning.

And they are correct, so she should.

But worth remembering that she won 42% of the UK vote, up from 36% in 2015, the highest Tory vote share since Thatcher in 1979.

Sturgeon won 37% of the Scottish vote, down from 50% in 2015.

If May should go then Sturgeon needs to go as well.

The collapse of the SNP is down to her decision to call for a second referendum. She miscalculated big time.

 

Are you really serious here? The truth of the matter is that the SNP won a landslide. The 2015 result was NEVER going to be repeated, Even before the election began we knew the SNP would lose seats. The fact the other pro union parties ran what was effectively a smear campaign meant it was never going to be easy to get close to the levels previously attained. The SNP are now close to their core support and we still have the YES voters from the other parties to add to any referendum. I firmly believe, if another election is required, those who returned to their chosen party, and, even more so, those who tactically voted, will be disillusioned and will be tempted to say, "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH", given who the Tories have went to bed with. Only the maniacs who would always vote conservative will want the DUP as bedpartners.

[BuddieinEK]

5 hours ago, saintnextlifetime said:

The only reason she went on about the will of the Scottish people , is that it suited her European Union agenda. Why a Nationalist would want to give up their sovereignty to Berlin in place of Westminster is irrational . Being in a union , any union , as far as I'm concerned is not what independence is about . .

wee nicky as far as l can see has damaged the Cause and it could take years to recover the position they had , just over a year ago. .

You may also notice that in the last few months she never once referred to it as "the will of the Scottish people" (which it had been till this point in her rhetoric), but as "the will of the Scottish Parliament".

Technically correct as SNP were by far the majority in the Scottish Parliament but a telling change of language.

[BuddieinEK]

14 minutes ago, stlucifer said:

 Instead we saw the SNP trying to defend a Scottish policy during a UK election.

With no legislation passed in Hollyrood in the last year, devolved powers remaining unused, and ejukashun in rapid decline, they may well have been better places concentrating on Scottish policy or amending it rather than trying to defend it.

[Bud the Baker]

56 minutes ago, mcdowell76 said:

The support for the SNP is down to racism. Pure and simple.

That's a lie - DUPboy!

[Bud the Baker]

15 hours ago, antrin said:

 

If she couldn't envisage support for Brexit and May seeking a mandate (as Sturgeon asked her to do) then she was very short-sighted and inept politically.  And enough voters in the recent election have shown that, in their opinion she was not attempting to look after Scotland.

 

As snlt points out above, going cap in hand to Berlin rather than London doesn't seem like an idyllic exchange...  Is that really looking after Scotland?

 

I fully understand and empathise with the alienation from the soft underbelly of the Home Counties and Westminster elites, but cutting off noses to spite faces is crassly simplistic.

 

There are 4 countries in the UK - England the largest has over 80% of the population whereas the EC has 28 27 member countries of which the largest (Germany) comprises just under 20% of the total population. The domination of one individual country over the others is nowhere near as great and I still believe Independence within Europe would be a better option for Scotland

Scotland has moved politically & culturally away from England since the early '80's. not just my view but one which has been agreed by ex-PM Gordon Brown, ex-First Minister Henry McLeish and last but one leader of Scottish Labour Johanna Lamont (pity they all had to resign before reaching this conclusion). It turns out that the DUP are more in tune with the mood of the UK than us Natsis (sic) and perhaps the only consolation I can take from the election result is that the pact (if it is to happen) has put Ruth Davidson's nose out of joint.

**************************** 

There's no doubt that me and the SNP as a whole misjudged the mood of Scotland and were not able to coerce any of the non-believers (sic) into going for IndyRef2 but it doesn't change the overall picture that the UK is run for the benefit of "the soft underbelly of the Home Counties and Westminster elites" and wanting to change this and assume more responsibility for our own affairs is not "crassly simplistic" but still IMO the best option for Scotland.

The SNP are still the party with most elected members at Council level, Holyrood and Westminster, we're in a better position than when I returned from England in the '90's and as far as I'm concerned the campaign continues - the road is long, with many a winding turn but I hope to get there.

[antrin]

Did the Scottish media not report on how Berlin has treated the people of Greece and Portugal?

THAT has been worse to my mind than even what Thatcher got up to.

Preferring that treatment to actually having Scots IN the UK government is what I view as crass.

 

 

[Bud the Baker]

9 minutes ago, antrin said:

Did the Scottish media not report on how Berlin has treated the people of Greece and Portugal?

THAT has been worse to my mind than even what Thatcher got up to.

Preferring that treatment to actually having Scots IN the UK government is what I view as crass.

Won the war, lost the peace..........

That's what really rankles with people of your generation isn't it Ching?

To answer your question about Greece and Portugal yes, frequently, with the whole SNPbad slant amplified.

****************

Meanwhile today "Tory of the Moment" Ruth Davidson has come out (sic) arguing for a soft Brexit, which IMO is not the most likely outcome with Michael Gove back in the Cabinet and TM beholden to the DUP. If Ruth thinks hard about it she might want to join us.