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Lord Pityme

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Beginning to feel a broken record here. It's disappointing that smisa's own Sean Spicer (sorry Kenny) has no real cognisance that smisa may have entered into certain contracts when they had no power to do so, having the AGM to 'clear things up' is too late, the fecking horse is half way down causeyside street.


I can't recall when I actually joined SMISA, so don't remember all the votes. Hence, I'm not entirely sure what power was given.
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As I don't live locally, I won't make the SMISA AGM today but I am looking forward to getting a copy of the minutes from the meeting. Chapter & Verse. I assume there will be minutes from the AGM emailed to every SMISA member?

Concerning all the same but here's hoping LPM's concerns turn out to be a storm in a teacup

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7 minutes ago, Kombibuddie said:

As I don't live locally, I won't make the SMISA AGM today but I am looking forward to getting a copy of the minutes from the meeting. Chapter & Verse. I assume there will be minutes from the AGM emailed to every SMISA member?

Concerning all the same but here's hoping LPM's concerns turn out to be a storm in a teacup

LPM is not voicing concerns that are non existent. Have not heard of any plans to send out minutes.

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4 hours ago, buddiecat said:
LPM is not voicing concerns that are non existent. Have not heard of any plans to send out minutes.

I have no doubts but there are alarm bells ringing in my head on the strength of the concerns he has raised. They sound very similar in nature to what Stuart Dickson was banging on about before he got sin binned then banished. My commitment of £1440 (over 10 years) is not unconditional.

I am not one of these "i'll cancel my DD at the 1st hint" but there are conditions attached for my commitment to SMISA and, i would suggest, every other contributor thinks about their expectations for their continued commitment.

Mine are pretty straight forward

I would like to be informed (receive minutes of SMISA meetings, including the AGM. I assume John White, as Secretary takes & produces minutes from every meeting? The SMISA membership would not be unreasonable in expecting to receive a copy of the minutes.

As i live in London, attending meetings is not an option i have.

If LPM's concerns are not non existant, i would like a senior member of the SMISA committee to reassure the SMISA membership of what has happpened & what is being done / was done to resolve/rectify.

I do not expect an unelected (with aspirations of being elected) member to try to explain the concerns raised. It needs to come from a senior member who is well established on the SMISA committee.

Back to the alarm bells, something is not right within SMISA is how it appears, i am sure i am not the only one with Alarm bells ringing, SMISA now need to reassure its members otherwise, i suspect their could be a bit of an exodus from Buy the Buds. If it came to that and my membership of SMISA ceased, i'd stick the £12 per month in a pot & would be prepared to cough up the £1440 (or whatever part of it I have not paid monthly to SMISA) at the time it came to complete the purchase of St Mirren.

I genuinely hope it is a storm in a teacup but it appears that it is not.

 

Edited by Kombibuddie
tidying up
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What a great day for the team and supporters yesterday, fantastic performance and result by both!

sadly the same canmot be said of the Smisa AGM, the committee members who spoke continually and tried to insist they have 'Special Executive Powers' that mean they neither need to inform nor consult with the membership  on anything, the constitution and governing legislation are clear, they MUST inform and consult.

Sadly they kept trying to convince themselves they didn't need to, and wouldn't in future involve the membership in the big decisions like loaning the club £15 k to fix the USH (which given the chairmans recent statement is fixed, but just not fixed for use in the winter...ffs) or indeed giving the club access to a further £50k of the memberships funds, with no security, interest or payback date.

what was astonishing to actually witness was the club chairman wading in and answering smisa members questions, that were put to the smisa committee, not him. If you were in any doubt over the loss of Smisa's independence then surely that doubt passed yesterday.

the most outrageous and cringeworthy embarrassing event yesterday was witnessing the committee chairman shutdown the AGM an hour early because they took umbrage at members asking questions. Yes the committee were visibly riled at the temerity of members asking questions. Many people I spoke to leaving and afterwards were embarrassed, upset and at a loss to why the committee did not want to wholeheartedly invite and answer questions.

and several members did not get the opportunity to ask their question as the meeting was brought to an abrupt end. The fallout from this shunning of the members democratic right to hold the committee to account has already manifested itself in members stating they will oppose all suggestions by the committee, and vote out anyone up for election next year.

How long is the behaviour in this way of the smisa committee sustainable? What is it they dont like about democracy?

would be interested to hear the views of anyone else who attended, and witnessed yesterday's embarrassing events.

Edited by Lord Pityme
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What a great day for the team and supporters yesterday, fantastic performance and result by both!
sadly the same canmot be said of the Smisa AGM, the committee members who spoke continually and tried to insist they have 'Special Executive Powers' that mean they neither need to inform nor consult with the membership  on anything, the constitution and governing legislation are clear, they MUST inform and consult.
Sadly they kept trying to convince themselves they didn't need to, and wouldn't in future involve the membership in the big decisions like loaning the club £15 k to fix the USH (which given the chairmans recent statement is fixed, but just not fixed for use in the winter...ffs) or indeed giving the club access to a further £50k of the memberships funds, with no security, interest or payback date.
what was astonishing to actually witness was the club chairman wading in and answering smisa members questions, that were put to the smisa committee, not him. If you were in any doubt over the loss of Smisa's independence then surely that doubt passed yesterday.
the most outrageous and cringeworthy embarrassing event yesterday was witnessing the committee chairman shutdown the AGM an hour early because they took umbrage at members asking questions. Yes the committee were visibly riled at the temerity of members asking questions. Many people I spoke to leaving and afterwards were embarrassed, upset and at a loss to why the committee did not want to wholeheartedly invite and answer questions.
and several members did not get the opportunity to ask their question as the meeting was brought to an abrupt end. The fallout from this shunning of the members democratic right to hold the committee to account has already manifested itself in members stating they will oppose all suggestions by the committee, and vote out anyone up for election next year.
How long is the behaviour in this way of the smisa committee sustainable? What is it they dont like about democracy?
would be interested to hear the views of anyone else who attended, and witnessed yesterday's embarrassing events.



If what you say is true, and I'm not for one minute suggesting otherwise, then it's a joke. It looks like we are all paying to keep the Chairman & Smisa committee in a wee club of their own. To suggest they don't need to consult me as what they do with my money is a joke. If I don't get a copy of the minutes emailed to me or posted then they can kiss my 25 quid a month good bye.
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1 hour ago, Lord Pityme said:

What a great day for the team and supporters yesterday, fantastic performance and result by both!

sadly the same canmot be said of the Smisa AGM, the committee members who spoke continually and tried to insist they have 'Special Executive Powers' that mean they neither need to inform nor consult with the membership  on anything, the constitution and governing legislation are clear, they MUST inform and consult.

Sadly they kept trying to convince themselves they didn't need to, and wouldn't in future involve the membership in the big decisions like loaning the club £15 k to fix the USH (which given the chairmans recent statement is fixed, but just not fixed for use in the winter...ffs) or indeed giving the club access to a further £50k of the memberships funds, with no security, interest or payback date.

what was astonishing to actually witness was the club chairman wading in and answering smisa members questions, that were put to the smisa committee, not him. If you were in any doubt over the loss of Smisa's independence then surely that doubt passed yesterday.

the most outrageous and cringeworthy embarrassing event yesterday was witnessing the committee chairman shutdown the AGM an hour early because they took umbrage at members asking questions. Yes the committee were visibly riled at the temerity of members asking questions. Many people I spoke to leaving and afterwards were embarrassed, upset and at a loss to why the committee did not want to wholeheartedly invite and answer questions.

and several members did not get the opportunity to ask their question as the meeting was brought to an abrupt end. The fallout from this shunning of the members democratic right to hold the committee to account has already manifested itself in members stating they will oppose all suggestions by the committee, and vote out anyone up for election next year.

How long is the behaviour in this way of the smisa committee sustainable? What is it they dont like about democracy?

would be interested to hear the views of anyone else who attended, and witnessed yesterday's embarrassing events.

All of the above and an unwarranted response from the SMiSA chairman when you put your hand up to ask a question led me to find it a less than satisfactory AGM. The SMiSA committee have worked really hard and deserve a lot of praise for their effort and committment, i'd even go as far as saying the guys on the finance group should be getting a salary, they truly work that hard to preside over the cashflow. The communication side of things needs to be completely revamped, and there was a promise stated to do just that, along with a promise to inform members of the details of the £50k facility when an account has been set up, i have every faith in the finance group achieving the best deal for us in that.

Due to personal issues i have with attending meetings of the SMiSA board, i have decided to stop attending meetings (which means i'm not a board member now) Coincidentally these issues also centre on communications. I firmly believe i can now do more to help the success of SMiSA from the outside of board meetings than i could by attending meetings.

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1 hour ago, El Gingero said:

 

 


If what you say is true, and I'm not for one minute suggesting otherwise, then it's a joke. It looks like we are all paying to keep the Chairman & Smisa committee in a wee club of their own. To suggest they don't need to consult me as what they do with my money is a joke. If I don't get a copy of the minutes emailed to me or posted then they can kiss my 25 quid a month good bye.

Please don't quit just yet, let the message that there needs to be more openness with members sink in and see what comes of it first. They said they would have a look at it, so give them a chance to do so first.There certainly is not a feeling within the majority of committe members that it's a "wee club of our own" Yes communications need revamped so give the committee a chance to do so, if people give up on SMiSA without giving the committee a chance to revamp then it would be counter-productive. Let them sort the only thing that is lacking at the moment - openness.

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31 minutes ago, buddiecat said:

Please don't quit just yet, let the message that there needs to be more openness with members sink in and see what comes of it first. They said they would have a look at it, so give them a chance to do so first.There certainly is not a feeling within the majority of committe members that it's a "wee club of our own" Yes communications need revamped so give the committee a chance to do so, if people give up on SMiSA without giving the committee a chance to revamp then it would be counter-productive. Let them sort the only thing that is lacking at the moment - openness.

Surely this lack of openness dates from the fact that for most of its existence SMISA has been a "wee club on its own". The problem is that it has not adjusted to the fact that it is now an organisation with thirteen or fourteen hundred members, each of whom has equal rights.

Edited by smcc
Appalling spelling this morning!
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6 minutes ago, smcc said:

Surely this lack of openness dates from the fact that for most of its existence SMISA has been a "wee club on its own". The problem is that it has not adjusted to the fact that it is now an organisation with thirteen or foutreen hundred members, each of whom has equal rights.

Fairly accurate in your assumption there, although up until the AGM there were only a couple of long term board members in place. So it is mainly new board members that need to realise there is a lack of openness.

I firmly believe there is no other option quite as palatable as fan ownership, and as stated before the current committee are doing a great job other than communicating with members on what needs decided on and the outcome of decisions.

Have to say though, the lack of interest in attending board meetings or seeking election to the SMiSA board left me dumbstruck, only people requiring re-election and others who already attend and greatly contribute to the cause put themselves forward. The committee actually needs a womans touch as well - any candidates ladies ?

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2 hours ago, smcc said:

Surely this lack of openness dates from the fact that for most of its existence SMISA has been a "wee club on its own". The problem is that it has not adjusted to the fact that it is now an organisation with thirteen or fourteen hundred members, each of whom has equal rights.

Hit the nail on the head there bud. Its more like a bowling club approach than a proper, open democratic trust.

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36 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

If it's possible to show "Saint for a day" live couldn't SMiSA have screened yesterday's meeting?

Apologies if they did...................

Given that they refuse to make meeting minutes available, i wont hold my breath on them streaming an AGM where they show themselves up by avoiding questions.

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4 hours ago, FTOF said:

Nobody who has a life really gives a f**k.

Perhaps a bit blunter than I would have put it but I found myself thinking the same after the meeting yesterday. There may well be valid points being raised on this thread and it could well be the case the SMiSA committee have serious questions to answer. I'm not saying this in a bid to silence people (although I'll no doubt be accused of it) but I'd wager the average member isn't actually that bothered about the stuff mentioned on here and, rightly or wrongly, is happy to let the committee get on with it and their £12/£25 a month subscription is the beginning and end of their own involvement with the organisation. You can see that from the fact there's only about two thirds of the membership voting on the £2 spends, which I think it is fair to say is far more exciting than debating constitutional stuff!

I'm not saying that is the right or the wrong approach, just saying I think that's the situation for a lot of members - and it's not a situation unique to SMiSA or St Mirren.

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Just now, garzo said:

What questions were avoided?

They refused to take supplementary questions on their answers over finance, giving the club another £50k line of credit that has no payback date (although The club chairman did wade in and insist it has got a payback date, that being when the membership takeover in ten years time. Basically we will inherit a debt to ourselves).

they wouldnt take questions on why they had failed to properly inform and consult with the members, instead insisting they had 'Special Executive Powers' which meant they can do what they want and we have to suck it up!

and they shut down the meeting before others could ask their questions.

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8 minutes ago, Lord Pityme said:

They refused to take supplementary questions on their answers over finance, giving the club another £50k line of credit that has no payback date (although The club chairman did wade in and insist it has got a payback date, that being when the membership takeover in ten years time. Basically we will inherit a debt to ourselves).

they wouldnt take questions on why they had failed to properly inform and consult with the members, instead insisting they had 'Special Executive Powers' which meant they can do what they want and we have to suck it up!

and they shut down the meeting before others could ask their questions.

I'm fairly sure the 50k point was discussed at length and indeed clarified as a requirement of the deal to purchase.
You might recall an open question to the room asking for a show of hands who was aware of this - my recollection being all present were aware.
None showing hands being unaware.

It was also pointed out as being a responsible approach to being a shareholder, when and if/ as required extra funds should be made available to the club to tide over in times when cashflow requires - in emergency situations.
This is entirely normal.

Only point is one on clarity and wider awareness of this and perhaps trusting our committee under delegated authority and what the extent of this might be.

I would be happy for day to day interaction with the club and running of SMiSA to be carried our under delegated authority.
Any issue such as undersoil heating loan payment should in future be put to a vote (agreed yesterday this was seen as a one off).

The committee have done a marvellous job and we should trust them to continue to act in our best interests.
Being more open and communicating better will improve although I'm confident there is nothing to hide.

 

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8 minutes ago, garzo said:

I'm fairly sure the 50k point was discussed at length and indeed clarified as a requirement of the deal to purchase.
You might recall an open question to the room asking for a show of hands who was aware of this - my recollection being all present were aware.
None showing hands being unaware.

It was also pointed out as being a responsible approach to being a shareholder, when and if/ as required extra funds should be made available to the club to tide over in times when cashflow requires - in emergency situations.
This is entirely normal.

Only point is one on clarity and wider awareness of this and perhaps trusting our committee under delegated authority and what the extent of this might be.

I would be happy for day to day interaction with the club and running of SMiSA to be carried our under delegated authority.
Any issue such as undersoil heating loan payment should in future be put to a vote (agreed yesterday this was seen as a one off).

The committee have done a marvellous job and we should trust them to continue to act in our best interests.
Being more open and communicating better will improve although I'm confident there is nothing to hide.

 

You are completely missing the important point that yes, I would imagine that most members if given the option would vote to approve the £15k USH loan, and the £50k revolving credit facility. The problem is the committee knowingly breaching the constitution and governing legislation by refusing to properly inform and consult with the members in advance of a decision.

what happens if the club cant pay these loans back? We have been told for years the club needs additional funding each season to get by, so its highly possible they could default, and given there is no security over these loans that would mean the memberships money, which was ringfenced to buy and only to buy the majority shareholding in the club being lost.

Gordon has smisa in his pocket and sees our funds as a source of finance he can tap into whenever he chooses, the committee give him everything he wants including buying new Hof boards instead of refurbing the existing ones because Gordon wants new ones.

and just to correct you it was me who asked for the show of hands and less than half present indicated they knew during buy the buds that the committee intended to loan the club another £50k.

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Guest TPAFKATS
They refused to take supplementary questions on their answers over finance, giving the club another £50k line of credit that has no payback date (although The club chairman did wade in and insist it has got a payback date, that being when the membership takeover in ten years time. Basically we will inherit a debt to ourselves).

they wouldnt take questions on why they had failed to properly inform and consult with the members, instead insisting they had 'Special Executive Powers' which meant they can do what they want and we have to suck it up!

and they shut down the meeting before others could ask their questions.

I'm fairly sure the 50k point was discussed at length and indeed clarified as a requirement of the deal to purchase.

You might recall an open question to the room asking for a show of hands who was aware of this - my recollection being all present were aware.

None showing hands being unaware.

It was also pointed out as being a responsible approach to being a shareholder, when and if/ as required extra funds should be made available to the club to tide over in times when cashflow requires - in emergency situations.

This is entirely normal.

Only point is one on clarity and wider awareness of this and perhaps trusting our committee under delegated authority and what the extent of this might be.

I would be happy for day to day interaction with the club and running of SMiSA to be carried our under delegated authority.

Any issue such as undersoil heating loan payment should in future be put to a vote (agreed yesterday this was seen as a one off).

The committee have done a marvellous job and we should trust them to continue to act in our best interests.

Being more open and communicating better will improve although I'm confident there is nothing to hide.

 

So, there's 3 sides to every story then...

 

With regards to the need for shareholders to provide additional funds/ cashflow - is this only Smisa / BtB shareholders? Raises more questions if that's the case, such as do they own the shares at the moment or does GLS? What about other shareholders, including the (I assume) many fans who have purchased or inherited shares over the years who also have bought into the BtB scheme?

 

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1 minute ago, TPAFKATS said:

 


So, there's 3 sides to every story then...

With regards to the need for shareholders to provide additional funds/ cashbook - is this only Smisa / BtB shareholders? Raises more questions if that's the case, such as do they own the shares at the moment or does GLS? What about other shareholders, including the (I assume) many fans who have purchased or inherited shares over the years who also have bought into the BtB scheme?

 

there is an agreement in place as part of the offer to buy out the former shareholders that SMiSA would set aside £50k in case of emergencies/ cashflow difficulties. This is not anticipated although is there if required.

I think this is acceptable and as its legally binding the only issue as far as I can see is one of people being aware of it.
It will not be taken to a vote.

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