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On 11/1/2017 at 10:44 AM, Soctty said:

The reason clubs make offers of more than a compensation amount - as Forest are allegedly set to - is that it puts them ahead of other interested parties. Rather than wait and see how much Celtic or anyone else bid, they can get in early with a bid we are receptive to and get negotiations done before it goes to a blind auction on personal terms. As stated earlier in the thread, West Ham paid £1 million for Stephen Hendrie from Hamilton at the end of January, despite him being out of contract in the summer, then loaned him back, so these things can happen.

Best to wait and see what does happen than make sweeping statements either way.

Stephen Hendrie deal was a pre-contract agreement. It was for compensation same as this one will be. 

Literally 100s of players in the UK every year are in this exact position as LM is now. How many transfer deals do you see in November/ December? It doesn't happen. Why would Morgan rush to sign a deal with someone now when he knows fine well if he waits a few weeks he'll have clubs fighting over him and can command a better wage? From January we have zero power to negotiate a better deal as his contract has less than six months. 

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Stephen Hendrie deal was a pre-contract agreement. It was for compensation same as this one will be. 
Literally 100s of players in the UK every year are in this exact position as LM is now. How many transfer deals do you see in November/ December? It doesn't happen. Why would Morgan rush to sign a deal with someone now when he knows fine well if he waits a few weeks he'll have clubs fighting over him and can command a better wage? From January we have zero power to negotiate a better deal as his contract has less than six months. 


I think you're confusing me with someone else - why you on about November/December?

Hendrie went for £1 million - more than any Scottish club would get for compensation. My point was that teams can bid higher amounts than we would anticipate.
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I think you're confusing me with someone else - why you on about November/December?

Hendrie went for £1 million - more than any Scottish club would get for compensation. My point was that teams can bid higher amounts than we would anticipate.


Hendrie honestly went pre contract mate. West Ham didn't bid anymore money. The deal went through 30th January and he went to West Ham at end of his contract. My point is why would a club bid more when they don't have to? Anyone can talk to Morgan form 1st of January so bidding more wouldn't prevent someone else offering a contract. It defeats the purpose of a higher bid. Only time we would get a higher bid would be if the club intended to take him in January. There's no way a club would bid higher then loan him back because it's exact same as signing a pre-contract deal.
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I think you're confusing me with someone else - why you on about November/December?

Hendrie went for £1 million - more than any Scottish club would get for compensation. My point was that teams can bid higher amounts than we would anticipate.


You said bidding more would put Forrest ahead of the pack so I assumed you meant before January 1st. From January 1st a club could bid £50 million, it wouldn't put them ahead of other clubs as that's when pre-contract rules come into effect.
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Hendrie honestly went pre contract mate. West Ham didn't bid anymore money. The deal went through 30th January and he went to West Ham at end of his contract. My point is why would a club bid more when they don't have to? Anyone can talk to Morgan form 1st of January so bidding more wouldn't prevent someone else offering a contract. It defeats the purpose of a higher bid. Only time we would get a higher bid would be if the club intended to take him in January. There's no way a club would bid higher then loan him back because it's exact same as signing a pre-contract deal.


No, Hendrie went for £1 million. That was the agreed compensation - why so high when it's so much higher than the guidelines? Pre-contract with £1 million the amount.
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You said bidding more would put Forrest ahead of the pack so I assumed you meant before January 1st. From January 1st a club could bid £50 million, it wouldn't put them ahead of other clubs as that's when pre-contract rules come into effect.


They could bid before January 1st, and it is rumoured that they will at some point. Bidding would allow them to legally speak to the player.

My point is that clubs can and do bid more than the compensation amounts.
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They could bid before January 1st, and it is rumoured that they will at some point. Bidding would allow them to legally speak to the player.

My point is that clubs can and do bid more than the compensation amounts.


https://web.archive.org/web/20150201041201/http://www.whufc.com/articles/20150130/hendrie-to-join-hammers_2236884_4451890

Hendrie signed a pre-contract agreement as per above article man. If the comp due was £1 million that's neither hear nor there. He went for whatever the comp that was due was. I don't know what the comp would be for Morgan, I think it depends on the size of the buying club as well as appearances and age.

So that's my November/ December point. Yes a club can bid and St Mirren can accept but then Morgan would have to accept a deal. Why would he do that when he can wait a couple months and have teams playing off against each other? Deals at this time of the year under these circumstances are very rare.

Maybe Morgan will hit the fear about injury and dip in form and sign but I doubt it. If he was worried about that he'd possibly of signed a longer deal with us. He's waited this long, why wouldn't he wait another few weeks?

I'm much more of the opinion these stories are designed to sell papers rather than fact. I don't imagine Forrest will be that desperate for Morgan. A team that size probably have other players on their radar above Scottish championship level.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20150201041201/http://www.whufc.com/articles/20150130/hendrie-to-join-hammers_2236884_4451890

Hendrie signed a pre-contract agreement as per above article man. If the comp due was £1 million that's neither hear nor there. He went for whatever the comp that was due was. I don't know what the comp would be for Morgan, I think it depends on the size of the buying club as well as appearances and age.

So that's my November/ December point. Yes a club can bid and St Mirren can accept but then Morgan would have to accept a deal. Why would he do that when he can wait a couple months and have teams playing off against each other? Deals at this time of the year under these circumstances are very rare.

Maybe Morgan will hit the fear about injury and dip in form and sign but I doubt it. If he was worried about that he'd possibly of signed a longer deal with us. He's waited this long, why wouldn't he wait another few weeks?

I'm much more of the opinion these stories are designed to sell papers rather than fact. I don't imagine Forrest will be that desperate for Morgan. A team that size probably have other players on their radar above Scottish championship level.


The only thing I'm interested in from all of that is the compensation amount of £1 million which was widely reported refugees would suggest more would be due than has been speculated were he to go to an English club.
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The only thing I'm interested in from all of that is the compensation amount of £1 million which was widely reported refugees would suggest more would be due than has been speculated were he to go to an English club.


To be honest I looked and I haven't seen one story, one tweet or one anything else saying Hendrie comp was £1 million. Countless stories that he signed a pre-contract agreement and none say 'West Ham paid more than the compensation due' simply because they didn't.

If Morgan goes down south the compensation will be more than if he goes to a club up here yes. That's how it works. But the debate has been going back and forward that a club might pay more money for him than what the compensation would be and we might then get him loaned back. All I'm saying is that won't happen and I think I've explained pretty clearly why it won't.

Only way we're getting more is if someone wants him in January without a loan back deal and club accept it (then Morgan accepts it, he has all the power in The situation) or like I said if Morgan hits the fear over injuries and dip in form (rarely happens, can't think of one example where that's happened just before a transfer window)
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Just now, bazil85 said:

 


To be honest I looked and I haven't seen one story, one tweet or one anything else saying Hendrie comp was £1 million. Countless stories that he signed a pre-contract agreement and none say 'West Ham paid more than the compensation due' simply because they didn't.

If Morgan goes down south the compensation will be more than if he goes to a club up here yes. That's how it works. But the debate has been going back and forward that a club might pay more money for him than what the compensation would be and we might then get him loaned back. All I'm saying is that won't happen and I think I've explained pretty clearly why it won't.

Only way we're getting more is if someone wants him in January without a loan back deal and club accept it (then Morgan accepts it, he has all the power in The situation) or like I said if Morgan hits the fear over injuries and dip in form (rarely happens, can't think of one example where that's happened just before a transfer window)

 

You havn't looked very hard then....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2933415/West-Ham-sign-Hamilton-defender-Stephen-Hendrie-clubs-agree-1m-compensation-package.html

http://www.espn.co.uk/football/league-name/story/2272627/headline

https://talksport.com/football/done-deal-west-ham-sign-hamilton-defender-150130134579-

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11676/10320974/west-ham-united-defender-stephen-hendrie-joins-blackburn-rovers-on-loan

 

Just a quick search reveals these articles and more which either report the £1 million fee or refer to it. Incidentally, Hendrie also stayed at Hamilton until the summer after the £1 million deal was agreed...

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9 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

 


To be honest I looked and I haven't seen one story, one tweet or one anything else saying Hendrie comp was £1 million. Countless stories that he signed a pre-contract agreement and none say 'West Ham paid more than the compensation due' simply because they didn't.

If Morgan goes down south the compensation will be more than if he goes to a club up here yes. That's how it works. But the debate has been going back and forward that a club might pay more money for him than what the compensation would be and we might then get him loaned back. All I'm saying is that won't happen and I think I've explained pretty clearly why it won't.

Only way we're getting more is if someone wants him in January without a loan back deal and club accept it (then Morgan accepts it, he has all the power in The situation) or like I said if Morgan hits the fear over injuries and dip in form (rarely happens, can't think of one example where that's happened just before a transfer window)

 

You've explained your opinion, but then you couldn't find any reference to a £1 million deal. Here are some tweets about it as well - the fee was originally looking like £2 million...

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&q=stephen hendrie million&src=typd

 

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Every single one of them early on say it's a compensation package. Not one mentions that West Ham bid for the player. I'm sorry but I'm not getting your point here? If Morgan goes St Mirren will get compensation. It'll be done in the same manner as this one has been done. The hendrie deal is no different from any other deal so just confused about why your bringing it up as if something different happened to all the other pre contract deals? We won't be able to negotiate more than the compensation owed the same way as Hamilton wouldn't be able to. It's not like Hamilton were due £500k but West Ham have bid £1 million to secure his signature. £1 million must have been the amount of compensation West Ham had to pay, the same way is there will be an amount Forrest have to pay or Celtic have to pay or Accrington Stanley would have to pay. Compensation packages differ depending on the buying team.
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Of course he stayed. It was a pre-contract agreement. Every single article says pre-contract agreement.
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Every single one of them early on say it's a compensation package. Not one mentions that West Ham bid for the player. I'm sorry but I'm not getting your point here? If Morgan goes St Mirren will get compensation. It'll be done in the same manner as this one has been done. The hendrie deal is no different from any other deal so just confused about why your bringing it up as if something different happened to all the other pre contract deals? We won't be able to negotiate more than the compensation owed the same way as Hamilton wouldn't be able to. It's not like Hamilton were due £500k but West Ham have bid £1 million to secure his signature. £1 million must have been the amount of compensation West Ham had to pay, the same way is there will be an amount Forrest have to pay or Celtic have to pay or Accrington Stanley would have to pay. Compensation packages differ depending on the buying team.


My point was they got £1 million. Do I have to send a telegraph? I've already stated what my point was while you waffled on about irrelevant stuff - much like most of your post here...

The initial fee reported was £2 million earlier in the month - West Ham must have miscalculated the compensation amounts... ????

I'm sure you'll explain how the compensation works seeing as you're pontificating so proudly on it... [emoji23]
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My point was they got £1 million. Do I have to send a telegraph? I've already stated what my point was while you waffled on about irrelevant stuff - much like most of your post here...

The initial fee reported was £2 million earlier in the month - West Ham must have miscalculated the compensation amounts... [emoji848]

I'm sure you'll explain how the compensation works seeing as you're pontificating so proudly on it... [emoji23]


Well that's you talking nonsense 'the reason clubs make offers of more than the compensation amount is that it puts them ahead of other interested parties' then you used Hendrie as an example

That's your direct quote and it's absolute rubbish [emoji23][emoji23] Hendrie signed a pre-contract agreement with West Ham. The compensation was agreed as per every other pre contract where clubs are entitled to compensation. West Ham didn't bid more money to secure him, why would they [emoji23][emoji23] if someone else came in for Hendrie on the 30th would West Ham of been in a better position because their compensation package was £1 million? No Hendrie could of signed a pre-contract with anyone he wanted as per player contract rules so the comp amount puts no club in a better position. I can get explain this in smaller words if you want?

I tried to be nice but you sir are very difficult to have an adult conversation with.
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Well that's you talking nonsense 'the reason clubs make offers of more than the compensation amount is that it puts them ahead of other interested parties' then you used Hendrie as an example

That's your direct quote and it's absolute rubbish [emoji23][emoji23] Hendrie signed a pre-contract agreement with West Ham. The compensation was agreed as per every other pre contract where clubs are entitled to compensation. West Ham didn't bid more money to secure him, why would they [emoji23][emoji23] if someone else came in for Hendrie on the 30th would West Ham of been in a better position because their compensation package was £1 million? No Hendrie could of signed a pre-contract with anyone he wanted as per player contract rules so the comp amount puts no club in a better position. I can get explain this in smaller words if you want?

I tried to be nice but you sir are very difficult to have an adult conversation with.


"Could of" [emoji23]

I suggest you do a bit more research, on both this and on basic grammar - it helps when having adult conversations...

"I tried to be nice"

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2 minutes ago, Soctty said:

 


"Could of" emoji23.png

I suggest you do a bit more research, on both this and on basic grammar - it helps when having adult conversations...

"I tried to be nice"
 

 

Since you've went down the grammar police route, I'll take that as a realisation you see my point and your point mate absolutely no sense. :P

If my English was better maybe we 'could have' got there earlier. :lol:

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Since you've went down the grammar police route, I'll take that as a realisation you see my point and your point mate absolutely no sense. [emoji14]
If my English was better maybe we 'could have' got there earlier. [emoji38]


Your point has veered from 'there is no mention of £1 million" to "that's obviously the compensation that must have been due" as you strive hopelessly to convince people you're an expert in transfer law... [emoji23]

In short, you're absolutely all over the place.
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Your point has veered from 'there is no mention of £1 million" to "that's obviously the compensation that must have been due" as you strive hopelessly to convince people you're an expert in transfer law... [emoji23]

In short, you're absolutely all over the place.


Well I'm not, am I? I didn't see the £1 million information, never said it was wrong, just that I couldn't find it. That's for providing it. As I've consistently stated though, that is not West Ham bidding over and above what they had to pay. That'll just be the comp value in that circumstance. It's stated in literally every story 'compensation agreed' 'pre-contract agreement'

Correct me if I'm wrong but you were trying to make a point about teams paying more than the comp due? Do you now maybe kind of see why that would be pointless?
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Well I'm not, am I? I didn't see the £1 million information, never said it was wrong, just that I couldn't find it. That's for providing it. As I've consistently stated though, that is not West Ham bidding over and above what they had to pay. That'll just be the comp value in that circumstance. It's stated in literally every story 'compensation agreed' 'pre-contract agreement'

Correct me if I'm wrong but you were trying to make a point about teams paying more than the comp due? Do you now maybe kind of see why that would be pointless?


Every transfer fee represents compensation - that's what a transfer fee is. Unless you have knowledge of how the compensation for development of young players is calculated, you're pissing in the wind. Neither of us knows, yet you're trying to claim you do.

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Every transfer fee represents compensation - that's what a transfer fee is. Unless you have knowledge of how the compensation for development of young players is calculated, you're pissing in the wind. Neither of us knows, yet you're trying to claim you do.



So there's no difference between a pre contract agreement on a player with six months left on his contract or a player with 5 years to run? I think you're really missing how compensation works for players that's contract are close to expiring, we don't need to know how it works, all we need to know is compensation amounts are calculated and they are nonnegotiable by the selling club once set. You made a point about clubs paying more than the compensation owed in order to put themselves in a better position, it was incorrect. Let's move on.
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So there's no difference between a pre contract agreement on a player with six months left on his contract or a player with 5 years to run? I think you're really missing how compensation works for players that's contract are close to expiring, we don't need to know how it works, all we need to know is compensation amounts are calculated and they are nonnegotiable by the selling club once set. You made a point about clubs paying more than the compensation owed in order to put themselves in a better position, it was incorrect. Let's move on.


Now you're making stupid assumptions about things I haven't said.

Compensation payments rarely get to the stage of a tribunal because neither side is sure of the amount, so a mutually beneficial agreement will be reached.

My point about clubs offering more is not incorrect, as is demonstrated regularly, with the Hendrie deal being an example.

If you want to move on, stop attempting to enforce your own loose understanding of the compensation system on the rest of the forum - there's a good lad.
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