djchapsticks Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 hours ago, div said: If we got an offer of £400K in January with a loan back to the end of the season then that would be fairly astonishing given Forest could leave him where he is and get him to sign a PCA allowing him to join in the Summer for the development fee alone. Haven't seen exact figures on the development fee that would be due but can't imagine it will be much more than £150K. I naively hope Lewis does us a favour and signs a 1 year extension to his contract on the understanding that if we get a certain amount bid for him in the summer that he can go. In the real world however that ain't gonna happen. Jack said at the Q and A that due to fair play and to prevent all large clubs just hoovering up young talent at will, the compensation is dictated by the relative size and resources of the club taking the player from his current club. He said that this places the majority of the top two divisions in England as a category 1 beside St Mirren and this is a significant difference in compensation compared to a category 2 or 3. Of course, no figures were mentioned but I'd be surprised if Forest or any championship club could take Lewis for as small a figure as £150k, despite him only being here 4 or so years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 29 minutes ago, BaldyOzBud said: Although " worthless statements" are something that you would be more familiar with than most of us. Indeed, I can spot them a mile away. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 29 minutes ago, BaldyOzBud said: May be totally true? or maybe utter pish, which given your recent contributions would be more likely! Thanks again. True as ever then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, shull said: Indeed, I can spot them a mile away. Thanks. No thanks needed, I'm happy to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 minute ago, shull said: Thanks again. True as ever then. See above, we should all be giving the young man pelters, whit a bassa he must be, no respect for the plane spotters, thank you once again for your positivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 3 minutes ago, BaldyOzBud said: See above, we should all be giving the young man pelters, whit a bassa he must be, no respect for the plane spotters, thank you once again for your positivity. It's not a positive or negative scenario. It is my gut instinct. No good reason why he can't sign an extension. Makes absolutely no difference to him but would help the Club he is presently employed at. He may have been tapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 2 minutes ago, shull said: It's not a positive or negative scenario. It is my gut instinct. No good reason why he can't sign an extension. Makes absolutely no difference to him but would help the Club he is presently employed at. He may have been tapped. When the term " worthless statement " is used then it is unequivocally negative, and if he signs for Forrest for the 400k mentioned and stays with us until the end of the season then I am happy with that, we would all love to keep him for a lot longer but this is never going to happen, and good luck to him, whether we like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 It is a worthless statement if he hasn't signed an extension to his St Mirren Contract. All pish talk and no action. It is absolutely no negative to him if he sets us up for a major windfall. He will become a millionaire with his talent also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Just now, shull said: It is a worthless statement if he hasn't signed an extension to his St Mirren Contract. All pish talk and no action. It is absolutely no negative to him if he sets us up for a major windfall. He will become a millionaire with his talent also. Totally agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shull Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 And I don't want him to sign just to stay longer. I want our Club to make a fortune out of him. And a fortune for him also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, BaldyOzBud said: I seem to remember a statement from Lewis at the beginning of the season where he said that he was more than happy to stay with us until the end of the season and would love for the club to make a decent return on any transfer for him when he leaves, he has a great relationship with Jack and James and wouldn't want to leave without the club getting a reasonable pay off when the inevitable comes to pass. Lewis and his agent have all the power right now. The only way that passes back to the club would be if he signed a 1 year extension, thus allowing the club to call the shots. It's not going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
div Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 1 hour ago, djchapsticks said: Jack said at the Q and A that due to fair play and to prevent all large clubs just hoovering up young talent at will, the compensation is dictated by the relative size and resources of the club taking the player from his current club. He said that this places the majority of the top two divisions in England as a category 1 beside St Mirren and this is a significant difference in compensation compared to a category 2 or 3. Of course, no figures were mentioned but I'd be surprised if Forest or any championship club could take Lewis for as small a figure as £150k, despite him only being here 4 or so years. Fair dos mate. If the figure of £400K being touted is accurate then can only assume that would be very close to what Forest would have to pay in the summer, otherwise there would be absolutely no point in them giving us that in January then loaning the player back for the rest of the season. What will be will be. The club don't have a huge amount of power in this. With 6 months of his contract to go it's pretty much all with the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 No, it is a "worthless statement" if he leaves in January for nothing, if he signs a pre contract to help us to be promoted, then even if we are not promoted then he has fulfilled his statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madball Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 56 minutes ago, djchapsticks said: Jack said at the Q and A that due to fair play and to prevent all large clubs just hoovering up young talent at will, the compensation is dictated by the relative size and resources of the club taking the player from his current club. He said that this places the majority of the top two divisions in England as a category 1 beside St Mirren and this is a significant difference in compensation compared to a category 2 or 3. Of course, no figures were mentioned but I'd be surprised if Forest or any championship club could take Lewis for as small a figure as £150k, despite him only being here 4 or so years. I posted on this before but understand the compensation schedule set by FIFA would come into play. Compensation would be set at the level as if the club had developed the player themselves. So if it is Scottish Clubs the highest would be Category 2, same as ourselves, if it was down south it could be up to a Category 1 club. The compensation between ages 12-15 is set at Category 4 level, and 16 and beyond, upto 23, are set at the category of the "buying" club. Given he has been with us for 5 seasons (signed 2013) we could be due €450k (5yrs x €90k) with a further €40k due to The Rangers. This is my understanding of the below link, but happy to be corrected. So if a club was to offer us £300k, as an example, they could save themselves in excess of £200k due to currency fluctuations than waiting on contract running down. This from the players and agent's point of view would be beneficial also as it would allow for more negotiation on sign-on fees, and also from our perspective we would have some leverage on sell-ons and loans. The precedent around this is not the Danny Ings transfer (which is governed by Englicsh League and their tribunal rulings), but more the Charlie Telfer to Dundee United which worked out at £175k for a 19yr old https://www.unlockthelaw.co.uk/News/training-compensation-why-dundee-united-are-paying-rangers-for-charlie-telfer.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 7 minutes ago, div said: Lewis and his agent have all the power right now. The only way that passes back to the club would be if he signed a 1 year extension, thus allowing the club to call the shots. It's not going to happen. Of course they do, but if he stays then whether or not we are promoted, he will have fulfilled his promise to do everything in his power to get us up to the premiership, and that is worth plenty to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevo_smfc Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 If it is 400k, then a difference of around 200k on what they would be potentially be paying in the summer is shrapnel to a club of that size for an investment in a player they will most likely sell on for a few million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 12 minutes ago, div said: Lewis and his agent have all the power right now. The only way that passes back to the club would be if he signed a 1 year extension, thus allowing the club to call the shots. It's not going to happen. I never claimed that he would sign an extension, and I don't believe that he would. What I am saying is that if he signed for Forrest, which seems likely, but was loaned out to us until the end of the season, and we gain promotion, then his worth to us is equivalent to the 400k that we qould get for him in january. For purely personal reasons I would love for him to stay til the end of the season because I'm all booked up for a holiday in @ Santa Mirrenland" in april next year for the title party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 6 minutes ago, kevo_smfc said: If it is 400k, then a difference of around 200k on what they would be potentially be paying in the summer is shrapnel to a club of that size for an investment in a player they will most likely sell on for a few million. The bigger clubs know Scottish football is skint though and will continue to make derisory offers. The money that Sky and others pump into English football has screwed Scottish football as a business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 And BTW I'll be looking at somebody to sign me in to the 1877 club, even though it's fosters on tap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mearns Saint Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Not sure if it has been mentioned already but most player contracts in Scotland run until the end of May. Therefore, legally any club wishing to sign Lewis on a PCA can offer him terms at the end of November (Bosman rules allow PCA's to be agreed 6months prior to the contract ending) and he would sign for that club next summer with us receiving compensation. If clubs want to pay money up front to avoid having a "contract to the highest bidder scenario" at the end of November, then we will see this happen in the next couple weeks. It doesn't surprise me at all that Forest are looking at bidding for him now, if true. There will be no clamour to sign Morgan when the January window opens, his future will already be decided by then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaldyOzBud Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 It may be naive of me, but the lad clearly stated that he wanted us to profit from any move he will make, until I am proven wrong then I'll take his word on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Not sure if it has been mentioned already but most player contracts in Scotland run until the end of May. Therefore, legally any club wishing to sign Lewis on a PCA can offer him terms at the end of November (Bosman rules allow PCA's to be agreed 6months prior to the contract ending) and he would sign for that club next summer with us receiving compensation. If clubs want to pay money up front to avoid having a "contract to the highest bidder scenario" at the end of November, then we will see this happen in the next couple weeks. It doesn't surprise me at all that Forest are looking at bidding for him now, if true. There will be no clamour to sign Morgan when the January window opens, his future will already be decided by then. That won't happen. If you're Lewis Morgan why would you rush to sign a deal that wouldn't happen until January at the earliest anyway because of transfer window. When you can sit back and wait to see who wants you more and what kind of offers are on the table. Would be the worst possible decision for Morgan to sign anything until last six months of his contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kemp Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Not sure why some are making this so complicated? Forest would bid 400k now to get the deal done before it gets to the stage of ten clubs trying to sign him on a PCA. This time there does seem to be a fair amount of interest in the player, I would expect quite a few bids to arrive over the coming weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazil85 Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 Not sure why some are making this so complicated? Forest would bid 400k now to get the deal done before it gets to the stage of ten clubs trying to sign him on a PCA. This time there does seem to be a fair amount of interest in the player, I would expect quite a few bids to arrive over the coming weeks. This is the whole point Kemp. If you're Lewis Morgan would you sign a deal offered to you now or would you wait a month or so and see what else comes in? There is no question that the sensible thing (and what his agent will say) is to wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mearns Saint Posted October 31, 2017 Report Share Posted October 31, 2017 54 minutes ago, bazil85 said: That won't happen. If you're Lewis Morgan why would you rush to sign a deal that wouldn't happen until January at the earliest anyway because of transfer window. When you can sit back and wait to see who wants you more and what kind of offers are on the table. Would be the worst possible decision for Morgan to sign anything until last six months of his contract. Sorry mate, the point I'm making is that clubs don't need to wait until January to sign him. They can agree a PCA with him at the end of November. The clubs that want pay cash to avoid getting into the Bosman free for all will do so this month, there little point afterwards. Whilst I agree that Morgan will likely be advised to wait until he can be signed on a Bosman, this is only a month away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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