Brexit Negotiations

[Cornwall_Saint]

1 hour ago, FTOF said:

Because we import millions of cars from other countries.

We don't import any fish, other than non-native species. 

That's verging on miraculous for a "*destroyed" industry, given that we seem to be satisfying the UK's demand.

How easy is this?

*destroy

/dɪˈstrɔɪ/  

verb

past tense: destroyed; past participle: destroyed

1. end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it

 

 

Add in the job losses from the car companies who are moving location due to Brexit.

[saintnextlifetime]

6 hours ago, FTOF said:

Because we import millions of cars from other countries.

We don't import any fish, other than non-native species. 

That's verging on miraculous for a "*destroyed" industry, given that we seem to be satisfying the UK's demand.

How easy is this?

*destroy

/dɪˈstrɔɪ/  

verb

past tense: destroyed; past participle: destroyed

1. end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it

 

 

Nice. .

Definition of destroy 

 

transitive verb

1 : to ruin the structure, organic existence, or condition of destroyed the files also : to ruin as if by tearing to shreds

The best-known example is our fishing industry – although, even in this case, I doubt that most people are aware of the full extent of the damage. Britain used to enjoy fishing areas that extended up to 200 miles from our coast. Under the terms under which we joined the EU, this distance was reduced to just 12 miles – and even that has depended on a concession that has to be renewed every 10 years. The biggest effect on this once-great industry was in the early years. But even now, the damage continues. British landings of fish were down to 756,000 tonnes in 2014 – a 19 per cent decline since 1998. We have lost access to fishing sales that would otherwise now be worth £2 billion a year. And the EU rules are crass and wasteful into the bargain, with thousands of tonnes of fish being discarded – just thrown away. As if this were not bad enough, we have to donate British taxpayers’ money to other fishing countries – particularly Greece and Poland.

 

Many of us will have had forebears who fought in the wars of the last century when Britain went to war to preserve the sovereignty of European nation states . Then Ed Heath came a long and by the stroke of a pen , began the process which meant the gradual surrender of British sovereignity , to an undemocratic supersate designed by Germans for the benefit of Germany the only country to benefit financially from the "Club of Rome". . EEC, EU , Fourth Reich , Europe. .

[Kemp]

7 hours ago, Wilbur said:

 

It pisses me off that "immigration" had become such a negative term throughout the Brexit campaigning. 

 

The madness is summed up by May selling her deal as "a guaranteed end to free movement".

10% loss in GDP, millions unemployed.....but it's all worth it to ensure the end of my free movement! Well thank you very f**king much.

[Cornwall_Saint]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

The madness is summed up by May selling her deal as "a guaranteed end to free movement".

10% loss in GDP, millions unemployed.....but it's all worth it to ensure the end of my free movement! Well thank you very f**king much.

Mate it’s a f**king pisstake. My mother and I have lived in the UK for 26 years yet because of a vote we had no say in, we will now have to pay to remain here. Then you see all this shite about a Brexit 50p, the likes of F*r*ge wanting Independence Day...great, just what we want, a constant reminder of when we became second class citizens.

[Kemp]

3 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Mate it’s a f**king pisstake. My mother and I have lived in the UK for 26 years yet because of a vote we had no say in, we will now have to pay to remain here. Then you see all this shite about a Brexit 50p, the likes of F*r*ge wanting Independence Day...great, just what we want, a constant reminder of when we became second class citizens.

Aye, I'll lived on the continent half my life and its potentially all up in smoke because a bunch of tubes believe any old pish the Daily Mail and the Sun come out with.

Only hope now is the majority in Scotland has finally had enough of being a colony of these utter clowns.

[beyond our ken]

11 hours ago, FTOF said:

Because we import millions of cars from other countries.

We don't import any fish, other than non-native species. 

That's verging on miraculous for a "*destroyed" industry, given that we seem to be satisfying the UK's demand.

How easy is this?

*destroy

/dɪˈstrɔɪ/  

verb

past tense: destroyed; past participle: destroyed

1. end the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it

 

 

you should take a wee look in the freezer aisle where you will find lots of imported Lobster, salmon and cod, which is cheaper than the higher quality produce we sell to other countries.  I am only talking off the top of my head, there may well be more examples of non-uk equivalents to native species in our shelves

[beyond our ken]

On 12/15/2018 at 1:23 PM, TPAFKATS said:

On 12/15/2018 at 12:57 PM, saintnextlifetime said:

Equally,  there is no way they want to lose all those imports the UK get . With the UK indigenous car industry all but destroyed by various parties , the biggest importer of German cars is the UK .  .
The EU is playing us to try and force us to stay in their corrupt club that has already destroyed Scotlands fishing industry.  .

Scotland's fishing industry is actually 5 very rich families including, Sir Ian Wood, who own around 80% of the fishing rights.

there was a recent report that criticised the obscene wealth of a few people in control of Scotland's fishing industry

[St.Ricky]

37 minutes ago, Kemp said:

Aye, I'll lived on the continent half my life and its potentially all up in smoke because a bunch of tubes believe any old pish the Daily Mail and the Sun come out with.

Only hope now is the majority in Scotland has finally had enough of being a colony of these utter clowns.

A vassal state perhaps? Now where did I hear that recently? 

[St.Ricky]

25 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

there was a recent report that criticised the obscene wealth of a few people in control of Scotland's fishing industry

I think this is the report you had in mind. 

https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/press-releases/uncovered-rich-list-codfathers-dominating-uks-fishing-industry/

[Cornwall_Saint]

1 hour ago, Kemp said:

Aye, I'll lived on the continent half my life and its potentially all up in smoke because a bunch of tubes believe any old pish the Daily Mail and the Sun come out with.

Only hope now is the majority in Scotland has finally had enough of being a colony of these utter clowns.

That’s the best hope and hopefully the one positive that comes from Brexit. It won’t do much for me living down here but at least my mum (and Scotland as a whole) would be in a better situation. If I’m right the Scottish Government actually tried to offer to pay the charges EU citizens were faced with, but as usual this was rejected by the English, sorry “British” government.

[oaksoft]

On 12/15/2018 at 1:23 PM, TPAFKATS said:

Scotland's fishing industry is actually 5 very rich families including, Sir Ian Wood, who own around 80% of the fishing rights.

Who between them ensure that just short of 5000 employees are able to reliably put food on their tables.

That's just the direct employees working on boats.

You then have extended employee numbers supporting the industry.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-sea-fisheries-statistics-2017/pages/5/

This is about way more than just 5 families.

[Guest TPAFKATS]

Who between them ensure that just short of 5000 employees are able to reliably put food on their tables.
That's just the direct employees working on boats.
You then have extended employee numbers supporting the industry.
https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-sea-fisheries-statistics-2017/pages/5/
This is about way more than just 5 families.

That's like saying landowners ensure tenant farmers are able to reliably put food on their tables.
Interesting stat that those employed in fishing account for only 0.2% of the Scottish workforce. Wonder why it gets so much coverage [emoji848]

[oaksoft]

6 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

That's like saying landowners ensure tenant farmers are able to reliably put food on their tables.
Interesting stat that those employed in fishing account for only 0.2% of the Scottish workforce. Wonder why it gets so much coverage

No idea. Do you have an answer?

Edited December 17, 2018 by oaksoft

[Guest TPAFKATS]

No idea. Do you have an answer?

We're back to the 5 families of millionaires [emoji6]

[oaksoft]

7 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

That's like saying landowners ensure tenant farmers are able to reliably put food on their tables.
Interesting stat that those employed in fishing account for only 0.2% of the Scottish workforce. Wonder why it gets so much coverage

There is a common thread here. Too many people not prepared to start their own businesses.

All this moaning about rich people but there's nothing whatsoever stopping folk from joining them.

 

[oaksoft]

2 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

We're back to the 5 families of millionaires

And? What about it?

[Bud the Baker]

19 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

And? What about it?

It's an image thing - to hear the Tories go on about "reclaiming the fishing industry" you'd think it was mainly about father&son outfits when in fact that model was killed  off  decades ago.

 

There is a wider picture but we all know who the Tories are doing it for,  as I always say "Eat the Rich"!

********************

I expect you to come back with your usual "chip on your shoulder"  response  or some variation  but no fortune is self-made these days and people who have good ideas, work hard and make money should accept they are standing on the shoulders of giants and make a fair contribution back to society.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Bud the Baker

[Guest TPAFKATS]

There is a common thread here. Too many people not prepared to start their own businesses.

All this moaning about rich people but there's nothing whatsoever stopping folk from joining them.

 

The millionaires buy up the fishing rights.

The fishermen then need to work for them in order to fish.

You make it sound like the folk setting out to sea had no connection to fishing prior to benefactors like sir Ian Wood coming along.

They actually had their own business, or their families did, now they have to rely on paying someone else for work.

Yeah, there's nothing to stop them doing this apart from the money up front and the quotas.

 

 

[Bud the Baker]

Quote

Brexit deal vote to take place in week of 14 January, May says.

Quote

Downing Street has said the government is about to escalate planning for a no-deal Brexit.

Quite clear TM is planning to bump her deal through by threatening a No-Deal Brexit.

Obviously opinions will vary and Farage/BoJo&Rees-Mogg et al will scream betrayal but we can only hope that the moderate Tories can join the Opposition to engineer an end to this sorry saga and withdraw A50.

Edited December 17, 2018 by Bud the Baker

[St.Ricky]

16 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

Quite clear TM is planning to bump her deal through by threatening a No-Deal Brexit.

Obviously opinions will vary and Farage/BoJo&Rees-Mogg et al will scream betrayal but we can only hope that the moderate Tories can join the Opposition to engineer an end to this sorry saga and withdraw A50.

Will be interesting to see the debate and ammendments.

The word "interesting " is used as in the Chinese saying.. May you live in interesting times. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by St.Ricky

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

It's an image thing - to hear the Tories go on about "reclaiming the fishing industry" you'd think it was mainly about father&son outfits when in fact that model was killed  off  decades ago.

 

There is a wider picture but we all know who the Tories are doing it for,  as I always say "Eat the Rich"!

********************

I expect you to come back with your usual "chip on your shoulder"  response  or some variation  but no fortune is self-made these days and people who have good ideas, work hard and make money should accept they are standing on the shoulders of giants and make a fair contribution back to society.

No fortune is self made?

Really?

How do you know that?

How do you know they are not making a fair contribution back to society and what represents "fair" anyway?

Employing people who would otherwise lack the guile to make enough money to survive is a pretty decent way to make a contribution to society. I know that when I was an employee, I could afford a great standard of living thanks to my job compared to what I would have had if I'd been running my own business in those days. What drives your lack of gratitude to those who employ or employed you?

Genuinely interested.

Edited December 17, 2018 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

The millionaires buy up the fishing rights.

The fishermen then need to work for them in order to fish.

You make it sound like the folk setting out to sea had no connection to fishing prior to benefactors like sir Ian Wood coming along.

They actually had their own business, or their families did, now they have to rely on paying someone else for work.

Yeah, there's nothing to stop them doing this apart from the money up front and the quotas.

 

 

How did these millionaires make their money in the first place?

How did they force others to give up their share of the fishing rights?

My comment about starting own businesses was not specific to fishing.

Nobody is stopping anyone becoming a millionaire.

You certainly don't need money either. I have started several businesses in my time and spent almost nothing on any of them. I was able to sustain my family on all of them. You are wrong about this.

Edited December 17, 2018 by oaksoft

[FTOF]

On ‎12‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 4:11 PM, saintnextlifetime said:

Nice. .

Definition of destroy 

 

transitive verb

1 : to ruin the structure, organic existence, or condition of destroyed the files also : to ruin as if by tearing to shreds

The best-known example is our fishing industry – although, even in this case, I doubt that most people are aware of the full extent of the damage. Britain used to enjoy fishing areas that extended up to 200 miles from our coast. Under the terms under which we joined the EU, this distance was reduced to just 12 miles – and even that has depended on a concession that has to be renewed every 10 years. The biggest effect on this once-great industry was in the early years. But even now, the damage continues. British landings of fish were down to 756,000 tonnes in 2014 – a 19 per cent decline since 1998. We have lost access to fishing sales that would otherwise now be worth £2 billion a year. And the EU rules are crass and wasteful into the bargain, with thousands of tonnes of fish being discarded – just thrown away. As if this were not bad enough, we have to donate British taxpayers’ money to other fishing countries – particularly Greece and Poland.

 

Many of us will have had forebears who fought in the wars of the last century when Britain went to war to preserve the sovereignty of European nation states . Then Ed Heath came a long and by the stroke of a pen , began the process which meant the gradual surrender of British sovereignity , to an undemocratic supersate designed by Germans for the benefit of Germany the only country to benefit financially from the "Club of Rome". . EEC, EU , Fourth Reich , Europe. .

Grimm.com?

[oaksoft]

On 12/16/2018 at 4:11 PM, saintnextlifetime said:

Nice. .

Definition of destroy 

 

transitive verb

1 : to ruin the structure, organic existence, or condition of destroyed the files also : to ruin as if by tearing to shreds

The best-known example is our fishing industry – although, even in this case, I doubt that most people are aware of the full extent of the damage. Britain used to enjoy fishing areas that extended up to 200 miles from our coast. Under the terms under which we joined the EU, this distance was reduced to just 12 miles – and even that has depended on a concession that has to be renewed every 10 years. The biggest effect on this once-great industry was in the early years. But even now, the damage continues. British landings of fish were down to 756,000 tonnes in 2014 – a 19 per cent decline since 1998. We have lost access to fishing sales that would otherwise now be worth £2 billion a year. And the EU rules are crass and wasteful into the bargain, with thousands of tonnes of fish being discarded – just thrown away. As if this were not bad enough, we have to donate British taxpayers’ money to other fishing countries – particularly Greece and Poland.

 

Many of us will have had forebears who fought in the wars of the last century when Britain went to war to preserve the sovereignty of European nation states . Then Ed Heath came a long and by the stroke of a pen , began the process which meant the gradual surrender of British sovereignity , to an undemocratic supersate designed by Germans for the benefit of Germany the only country to benefit financially from the "Club of Rome". . EEC, EU , Fourth Reich , Europe. .

Is this the same EU where we currently have a veto on any rule change?

If these rules have been brought in, they could only have done so with the blessing of our country. Are you really unaware of this?

Edited December 17, 2018 by oaksoft

[FTOF]

20 hours ago, beyond our ken said:

you should take a wee look in the freezer aisle where you will find lots of imported Lobster, salmon and cod, which is cheaper than the higher quality produce we sell to other countries.  I am only talking off the top of my head, there may well be more examples of non-uk equivalents to native species in our shelves

The reason why we have to import lobster and cod, is because there aren't sufficient numbers of lobster or cod in our waters due to them having been overfished for decades.

Cod in particular saw an 84% drop in stocks from the '70's to 2006. The population is recovering and is classed as sustainable now. However, the numbers are not sufficient to supply the UK's obsession with it.

Salmon is largely farmed, so that's got absolutely nothing to do with our fishing fleet.

I'll admit I should have been more detailed regarding my initial comment.

I should have said, that we don't import fish unless it can't be supplied from our own stocks in our waters or is a non-native species.

These imports are actually dropping.

Maybe rising fish stocks, due to excellent EU conservation measures, and the fact that we have the second largest fishing fleet by capacity in the EU , are making an impact.