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Brexit Negotiations


Bud the Baker

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26 minutes ago, St.Ricky said:

Don't like what's going on but some clever politics being played out. 

I DO hope so, Ricky, but on the evidence of the past two to three years that'll be a huge change.

 

I hope you're right and that eventually some politicians will do the right thing, do the job they're paid to do and sort out the mess.

To my mind Brexit was always (and still IS) an Alice-in-Wonderland step too far.  I thought the Brexiteers that May promoted to find their 'way' to their promised land were inept buffoons, but hoped they weren't as stupid as I thought.

They were, they are: no new thinking, no great plans, nothing has been done to find a non-detrimental way forward.   All their promises are broken, their ideas unfulfillable, the lies shown for what they were. 

The EU IS flawed.  It isn't being governed for the good of the people within it - that needs changing.   But the UK walking away from all the current, practical benefits with NO sign of ANYTHING to replace them, is shooting ourselves in both feet.  The Brexiteers had their chance and have been patently inept in all areas.  They've been unable to deliver their promised land.

We desperately need sane, rational leadership.  Article 50 will be postponed.  There'll be another referendum, in due course.

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3 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I haven't read Ginsberg's poetry so you have me at a disadvantage here. I have no idea what you are talking about.

He's one of the American Beat Poets from the 50s/60s much lampooned for their "their rejection of standard narrative values, making a spiritual quest into the exploration of American and Eastern religions, the rejection of materialism, explicit portrayals of the human condition, experimentation with psychedelic drugs, and sexual liberation."

Oh and they did like to sport goatee beards (even the women)!

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24 minutes ago, Bud the Baker said:

He's one of the American Beat Poets from the 50s/60s much lampooned for their "their rejection of standard narrative values, making a spiritual quest into the exploration of American and Eastern religions, the rejection of materialism, explicit portrayals of the human condition, experimentation with psychedelic drugs, and sexual liberation."

Oh and they did like to sport goatee beards (even the women)!

So why would he have cried at my sentence?

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1 minute ago, Bud the Baker said:

Apologies another mistake - I'll not attempt any more jokes tonight.

FFS :lol:

Well you got me scratching my head for an hour or two so it wasn't a wasted effort.

And I might have a look at what he published as well. Ploughing my way through Walt Whitman at the moment.

Edited by oaksoft
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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:

I haven't read Ginsberg's poetry so you have me at a disadvantage here. I have no idea what you are talking about.

Here’s The Howl.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/49303/howl

look at the words and structure.

i thought it was a witty (abstruse) comment, but I’m of an age to know Ginsberg.

apologies for any Big Words.  :)

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24 minutes ago, antrin said:

Here’s The Howl.

https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/49303/howl

look at the words and structure.

i thought it was a witty (abstruse) comment, but I’m of an age to know Ginsberg.

apologies for any Big Words.  :)

I am ages with Ginsberg. Rules were for fools.  individual destinies are written and controlled by individuals but establishment measures of success were redundant. 

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11 minutes ago, antrin said:

Er...   Ricky.... Ginsberg was born in the 1920s... and he’s died noo.

He’d be near 100 now.... are you really ages with him?  :o

 

11 minutes ago, antrin said:

Er...   Ricky.... Ginsberg was born in the 1920s... and he’s died noo.

He’d be near 100 now.... are you really ages with him?  :o

Let me rephrase that.  He was influential in the 60's when I was a teenager. 

The antiestablisharianism  stuff suited me just fine. 

Edited by St.Ricky
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14 hours ago, antrin said:

I DO hope so, Ricky, but on the evidence of the past two to three years that'll be a huge change.

 

I hope you're right and that eventually some politicians will do the right thing, do the job they're paid to do and sort out the mess.

To my mind Brexit was always (and still IS) an Alice-in-Wonderland step too far.  I thought the Brexiteers that May promoted to find their 'way' to their promised land were inept buffoons, but hoped they weren't as stupid as I thought.

They were, they are: no new thinking, no great plans, nothing has been done to find a non-detrimental way forward.   All their promises are broken, their ideas unfulfillable, the lies shown for what they were. 

The EU IS flawed.  It isn't being governed for the good of the people within it - that needs changing.   But the UK walking away from all the current, practical benefits with NO sign of ANYTHING to replace them, is shooting ourselves in both feet.  The Brexiteers had their chance and have been patently inept in all areas.  They've been unable to deliver their promised land.

We desperately need sane, rational leadership.  Article 50 will be postponed.  There'll be another referendum, in due course.

Westminster and Holyrood are now generally filled with individuals who have studied politics, politic science or some other politically based degree. Some have done their bit of working their way up the ladder, others have jumped the queue in that department.

Historically Westminster and various constituencies around the country attracted individuals of a broad spectrum. We got leaders of industry,  ex-military people, trade unionists, successful business people and some party faithfuls who worked their way up the long ladder to have their moment in the sun. No more I fear, mostly all are programmed to follow the party line and bask in their £77,0000+p.a. plus expenses etc.

We lack skill, leadership and an educated focus to help lead us out of this mess, and I don't mean May, Corbyn, Cable (though I'm told he is quite bright) or Sturgeon. I do fear for the long-term with the calibre of individuals that now run both our country and the UK. I don't want useless Council members who I hardly ever have a good word to say about, or party faithfuls who simply toe the party line. I yearn for talented individuals who fight for their constituents, have the audacity to stand up to the whips and fight for the rights that we in Britain have strived for over many long and hard years. 

......................... and don't just tell me that we get what we vote for, - what is put before us nowadays is what the various parties want us to have, not the wide choice that was once attracted to Westminster.              

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15 hours ago, antrin said:

I DO hope so, Ricky, but on the evidence of the past two to three years that'll be a huge change.

 

I hope you're right and that eventually some politicians will do the right thing, do the job they're paid to do and sort out the mess.

To my mind Brexit was always (and still IS) an Alice-in-Wonderland step too far.  I thought the Brexiteers that May promoted to find their 'way' to their promised land were inept buffoons, but hoped they weren't as stupid as I thought.

They were, they are: no new thinking, no great plans, nothing has been done to find a non-detrimental way forward.   All their promises are broken, their ideas unfulfillable, the lies shown for what they were. 

The EU IS flawed.  It isn't being governed for the good of the people within it - that needs changing.   But the UK walking away from all the current, practical benefits with NO sign of ANYTHING to replace them, is shooting ourselves in both feet.  The Brexiteers had their chance and have been patently inept in all areas.  They've been unable to deliver their promised land.

We desperately need sane, rational leadership.  Article 50 will be postponed.  There'll be another referendum, in due course.

Spot on , but appart from leaving the Club , I don't see that those changes will ever take place for us.  The experiment of linking disparate ecconomy's such as Greece and Germany , has failed miserably corrupt politicians have been found out . Their current desire to impose sanctions on Hungary , mainly because the Hungarian people whole heartedly rejected Europe's immigration policy is another example of what a f**k up it is.. .

 

I'd be very surprised if there is another neverendum but stranger things have happened - in Eire for example , oh aye and we had to bail them out not long after that. .

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2 hours ago, The Original 59er said:

Westminster and Holyrood are now generally filled with individuals who have studied politics, politic science or some other politically based degree. Some have done their bit of working their way up the ladder, others have jumped the queue in that department.

Historically Westminster and various constituencies around the country attracted individuals of a broad spectrum. We got leaders of industry,  ex-military people, trade unionists, successful business people and some party faithfuls who worked their way up the long ladder to have their moment in the sun. No more I fear, mostly all are programmed to follow the party line and bask in their £77,0000+p.a. plus expenses etc.

We lack skill, leadership and an educated focus to help lead us out of this mess, and I don't mean May, Corbyn, Cable (though I'm told he is quite bright) or Sturgeon. I do fear for the long-term with the calibre of individuals that now run both our country and the UK. I don't want useless Council members who I hardly ever have a good word to say about, or party faithfuls who simply toe the party line. I yearn for talented individuals who fight for their constituents, have the audacity to stand up to the whips and fight for the rights that we in Britain have strived for over many long and hard years. 

......................... and don't just tell me that we get what we vote for, - what is put before us nowadays is what the various parties want us to have, not the wide choice that was once attracted to Westminster.              

I think this is true, we are governed by a political class many of whom could as easily wear a different coloured rosette at election time as they contribute little more than numbers through the lobby when they get to parliament..

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2 hours ago, antrin said:

Wow!

 

Honesty and raw emotion about in the Commons from David Lammy, telling it like I see it....

 

Maybe he's the new Messiah that I am hoping for.

 

 

 

Or maybe he's just yet another tedious politician who can't accept that when people voted to Leave they weren't overly fussed about how that happened.

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