Jump to content

Brexit Negotiations


Bud the Baker

Recommended Posts

49 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Where to begin?

Claiming we have no money to fund things like the NHS. Then selling it off to private companies who prioritise profit over care. Example: we have billionaire Richard Branson sueing the NHS because he hasn’t been given more contracts.

We have austerity measures but somehow they found £1bn to bung the DUP, they continue to find money for the ever pointless trident, they can write off MP expenses. The House of Lords continues to increase in size and with that increases the £300 dished out to each Lord who does the difficult task of clocking in. No austerity for them, funny that. Check some of the “expenses” lists MPs have claimed for. Absolute nonsense. 

Benefit claimants have seen money slashed. Bedroom tax is shambolic. The Rape Clause to claim tax credits for a third child is abhorrent. The ATOS “Fit for work” tests are not fit for purpose. Benefit sanctions leave people moneyless. Many have died either from starvation, or suicide when their debts have climbed too high. In some cases the threat of benefit cuts or being fit “found to work” when they really aren’t has also lead to suicides. The large amount of food banks opening shows how much the poor have suffered over the last 8 years.

But who gets the blame for a lack of money? Foreigners, immigrants, asylum seekers. Benefit claimants. The EU is apparently at fault. The government has allowed these groups to take the blame to take the heat off themselves.  As a result we have seen a more right wing Britain develop, increasing the hate of anyone foreign. You fine well know some leave voters voted in the hope EU citizens would be kicked out. The torrents of abuse aimed at refugees is sickening. This government has always deflected the real reasons for lack of money while spunking loads on shite elsewhere and allowing others to take the blame. The last 8 years has seen our beloved NHS being sold off, an increase in racism, an increase in poverty and an increase in homeless numbers. But also an increase in the pockets of the rich. Of course the Tories have f**king destabilised Britain.

Maybe you need to stop watching so much news. Seriously. It's not healthy to be this negative.

None of this is as bad as you think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Guest TPAFKATS
And Mrs May has made yet another (non)statement for dramatic effect at the door of Number 10.[emoji20]
Even by her standards that was pretty desperate stuff.

Mentioned the national interest at least 3 times - not sure what nation she meant?

I'm sure she almost burst into a laugh when she said the government had won the confidence of parliament.

Claimed to have held constructive talks with Cable & Blackford who have both issued statements differing from that.

Not sure what happened to the previous deal being the only deal on the table either, although I suppose she's done what she needed with that and ran 4 weeks of the calendar.

The most ridiculous thing however is that Corbyn is being out manoeuvred by May.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Maybe you need to stop watching so much news. Seriously. It's not healthy to be this negative.

None of this is as bad as you think.

I don’t tend to watch the news often. Used to have it on a lot more.

Unfortunately it is that bad. The UC situation with benefits is disastrous and the evidence is there that ATOS “fit to work” tests are a pile of absolute shite. Back when I was with my ex we got hit with the bedroom tax (they say if your two kids are the same gender they should share a room) and it pushed us on the verge of having nothing left financially. I’m thankful that between my two jobs I don’t need to claim right now, I dread the possibility of that changing and going through the nonsense meetings with “Work coaches” who want you to take a 12 hour contract miles out of town which does absolutely nothing to help you financially.

Unfortunately many people have been suffering at the hands of these sanctions and cuts. I don’t want to be this negative, but I’m a realist. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Where to begin?

Claiming we have no money to fund things like the NHS. Then selling it off to private companies who prioritise profit over care. Example: we have billionaire Richard Branson sueing the NHS because he hasn’t been given more contracts.

We have austerity measures but somehow they found £1bn to bung the DUP, they continue to find money for the ever pointless trident, they can write off MP expenses. The House of Lords continues to increase in size and with that increases the £300 dished out to each Lord who does the difficult task of clocking in. No austerity for them, funny that. Check some of the “expenses” lists MPs have claimed for. Absolute nonsense. 

Benefit claimants have seen money slashed. Bedroom tax is shambolic. The Rape Clause to claim tax credits for a third child is abhorrent. The ATOS “Fit for work” tests are not fit for purpose. Benefit sanctions leave people moneyless. Many have died either from starvation, or suicide when their debts have climbed too high. In some cases the threat of benefit cuts or being fit “found to work” when they really aren’t has also lead to suicides. The large amount of food banks opening shows how much the poor have suffered over the last 8 years.

But who gets the blame for a lack of money? Foreigners, immigrants, asylum seekers. Benefit claimants. The EU is apparently at fault. The government has allowed these groups to take the blame to take the heat off themselves.  As a result we have seen a more right wing Britain develop, increasing the hate of anyone foreign. You fine well know some leave voters voted in the hope EU citizens would be kicked out. The torrents of abuse aimed at refugees is sickening. This government has always deflected the real reasons for lack of money while spunking loads on shite elsewhere and allowing others to take the blame. The last 8 years has seen our beloved NHS being sold off, an increase in racism, an increase in poverty and an increase in homeless numbers. But also an increase in the pockets of the rich. Of course the Tories have f**king destabilised Britain.

Sorry buddie, I had forgotten it was a land of milk and honey before they got in. .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Missed the latest non-statement from May but according to ex-PDE Sports Writer Andrew Neil she said nothing new!

Presumably watching games at Love St. Neil saw a few OGs but probably none as bad as the one JC made this evening by refusing to talk to May until she rules out a "No Deal Brexit" a mistake already being used to deflect the pressure from May by the gammon press down south!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

If you want me to respond to you, you should learn how to quote properly. That way your opinion doesn't disappear in the morass of other posts.

As for that last bit in bold? Go and talk to someone else unless you can find a more agreeable way to debate what is actually a pretty interesting topic.

Fair enough.

i was giving you the benefit of the doubt - speaking to you as a normal sentient being - that you weren’t as thick as you’re now admitting.

i apologise for that.

Edited by antrin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, oaksoft said:
4 hours ago, jaybee said:

I think antrin is a D.P.W.A.D. ie; a dangerous person with a dictionary.  If you wish to debate; you really need to THINK about what you are saying, there is a logical process ............. if this; then that etc and  I don't see any of that in your arguments.......................,sticks in your eyes and things up your bum don't really tend to be taken seriously as postulations  with regards to Brexit.  Perhaps you too should go to bed and let the adults talk.  B)

Are you talking to me with that bit in bold or antrim?

Antrin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, jaybee said:

I think antrin is a D.P.W.A.D. ie; a dangerous person with a dictionary.  If you wish to debate; you really need to THINK about what you are saying, there is a logical process ............. if this; then that etc and  I don't see any of that in your arguments.......................,sticks in your eyes and things up your bum don't really tend to be taken seriously as postulations  with regards to Brexit.  Perhaps you too should go to bed and let the adults talk.  B)

I notice that in your responses to me you avoid tackling the points I make.  A common problem with swivel-eyed Brexiteers.

Mogg, Johnson, Gove, farrage, yourself are great at promising everything will be fine in the No Deal promised land, and yet refuse to answer any of the doubts and questions raised by those who are less optimistic.

instead you resort to ad hominem comments..  not bright and not unexpected.

For the same reason, oakshite will be annoyed at you correcting his misspelling of my nom de plume.  He uses that as ad hominem when he runs out of intelligent response.  Eg every post to me.

I think oakshite is being too respectful to him.  What do you think?

(saves you addressing any problems Brexit may cause).

and also respectfully, just because you can’t see logic doesn’t mean it’s not there - you may well be the weak link in that chain.  Not me.

 

Edited by antrin
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2019 at 10:13 PM, TPAFKATS said:

The 634 aren't trying to defy the will of 17 million. Most have just decided that the deal the PM has brought to parliament isn't acceptable.
Many of these politicians who voted against would be happy with a no deal.

There in lies the crux of the matter. There is NO consensus about ANY one "deal". There are so many different views as to what is best. There will never be agreement as to the way to exit. People go on about 17,000,000 being betrayed. What about the near 16,000,000 who voted to remain? Of the 17,000,000 there are various levels of leave. IF the question of leave or remain had been thought out and expanded, that number for remain would probably have changed very little but those who chose to leave would have been split because, as has been noted ad nausea, there is no ideal method of disentangling us from a machine we have been integrated with for forty odd years. As for MPs going against the wishes of the people they represent. What about those whose constituents voted to remain? Who should they represent? The slim majority of the country who voted for what they thought leave meant or the people who actually voted them in?

With all the ramifications of leave coming to the surface I really don't see why there shouldn't be a REAL vote on the options. It's actually the way it should have been done in the first place. Due to the infighting and UKIP fear of the tories they put the cart before the horse in a blatant attempt at self preservation. In fact that VonC in the government was only doomed to failure through exactly that. DUP turkeys weren't going to vote for being stuffed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

I’m not saying it was. What I’m saying is things have gotten worse, and by a distance.

Bollocks..... please detail how.... people just moan more now on social media ..... ooops. I saw u young guy outside central station sitting with a cup begging whilst being on what looked like the latest apple phone. Corbyn yesterday just summed up the issue by again being a fanny. We take no deal off the table then we cant get a good deal. Feckin hippee

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Bollocks..... please detail how.... people just moan more now on social media ..... ooops. I saw u young guy outside central station sitting with a cup begging whilst being on what looked like the latest apple phone. Corbyn yesterday just summed up the issue by again being a fanny. We take no deal off the table then we cant get a good deal. Feckin hippee

 

4

This is why there should be some form of intelligence test before people are allowed on the electoral roll.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's another `12 days off the clock! :toilet

Quote

MPs to debate and vote on Brexit 'plan B' options on Tuesday 29 January

Andrea Leadsom, the leader of the Commons, has told MPs that on Monday Theresa May will make a statement to MPs about what happens next in the Brexit process, and that she will table a motion. The debate will be held on Tuesday 29 January, she said. She said it would last a full day.

  • MPs will debate what happens next with Brexit on Tuesday 29 January. This is the debate where MPs will push for votes on ‘plan B’ amendments.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Theresa May said last night that MPs should put self-interest aside. She does not seem able to recognise that the reason that we are in our present mess is the self-interest of the Tory party which set the EU referendum process in motion in order to combat the perceived threat of UKIP. David Cameron was backed by the group of excessively rich Tory Brexiteers and supported by Hans Christian Andersen(AKA Liam Fox) who told us that leaving the EU and setting up new trade deals with the rest of the world would be easy and quick. Unless Mrs May puts her own self-interest(and that of Jacob Rees-Mogg and his supporters)  aside, no progress can be made.

George Bernard Shaw said that "Progress is impossible without change, and those who cannot change their minds cannot change anything." The big problem is that Mrs May shows no inclination to change her mind.

 

Edited by smcc
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

I don’t tend to watch the news often. Used to have it on a lot more.

Unfortunately it is that bad. The UC situation with benefits is disastrous and the evidence is there that ATOS “fit to work” tests are a pile of absolute shite. Back when I was with my ex we got hit with the bedroom tax (they say if your two kids are the same gender they should share a room) and it pushed us on the verge of having nothing left financially. I’m thankful that between my two jobs I don’t need to claim right now, I dread the possibility of that changing and going through the nonsense meetings with “Work coaches” who want you to take a 12 hour contract miles out of town which does absolutely nothing to help you financially.

Unfortunately many people have been suffering at the hands of these sanctions and cuts. I don’t want to be this negative, but I’m a realist. 

Move back to Scotland - the effects of the bedroom tax have been fully mitigated by the Scottish government via a change to the benefits system in Scotland - they recognised it was a flawed policy and have put in place a procedure to put that right.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Ayrshire Saints said:

Move back to Scotland - the effects of the bedroom tax have been fully mitigated by the Scottish government via a change to the benefits system in Scotland - they recognised it was a flawed policy and have put in place a procedure to put that right.

Thankfully I don’t claim anything atm as I manage to get by on two jobs. That being said if I was still with my ex the chances are we would have still had to claim though. I did see that the Scottish government mitigated that, it was nice to finally hear of a government actually trying to help and protect the poorer among us.

I’ve had temptations to move to either Scotland or Belgium. Scotland would be the easier option as I grew up there. If I moved to Belgium (my country of birth) I’d have aimed to move in with my grandpa, help him out around the house while picking up the language and start to make a life for myself over there. With all this in mind, I wish I could do it but I can’t leave my two boys behind and only see them a couple of times a year. If it wasn’t for them, I’d have been seriously looking at relocating.

1 hour ago, DougJamie said:

Bollocks..... please detail how.... people just moan more now on social media ..... ooops. I saw u young guy outside central station sitting with a cup begging whilst being on what looked like the latest apple phone. Corbyn yesterday just summed up the issue by again being a fanny. We take no deal off the table then we cant get a good deal. Feckin hippee

 

I have detailed it already in this  thread. Bedroom tax, ATOS, privatisation for starters. You don’t need social media to see the damage these things have caused.

Just because you’re begging doesn’t mean you don’t, or shouldn’t have a phone. Perhaps this person was once in a better position, but has been kicked out or evicted? Perhaps they’ve lost their job recently? Maybe this person is unwilling to sell their phone because it’s the only contact they have with a particular family member? Every individual is different, don’t make a judgement before you know their story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Bud the Baker said:

Friends like these., fellow Labour MP Mike Gapes...............:lol:

 

Because he is Commy/ Terriorist lover

 

How many open goals do the SNPs need to win a Indy vote and get shot of this self purposing morons

 

Corbyn is far better for the Tories than any of the tories 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Thankfully I don’t claim anything atm as I manage to get by on two jobs. That being said if I was still with my ex the chances are we would have still had to claim though. I did see that the Scottish government mitigated that, it was nice to finally hear of a government actually trying to help and protect the poorer among us.

I’ve had temptations to move to either Scotland or Belgium. Scotland would be the easier option as I grew up there. If I moved to Belgium (my country of birth) I’d have aimed to move in with my grandpa, help him out around the house while picking up the language and start to make a life for myself over there. With all this in mind, I wish I could do it but I can’t leave my two boys behind and only see them a couple of times a year. If it wasn’t for them, I’d have been seriously looking at relocating.

I have detailed it already in this  thread. Bedroom tax, ATOS, privatisation for starters. You don’t need social media to see the damage these things have caused.

Just because you’re begging doesn’t mean you don’t, or shouldn’t have a phone. Perhaps this person was once in a better position, but has been kicked out or evicted? Perhaps they’ve lost their job recently? Maybe this person is unwilling to sell their phone because it’s the only contact they have with a particular family member? Every individual is different, don’t make a judgement before you know their story.

Yes you may well be right . so how are things worse. Any on here who remember the 70's, or even before that, when Mental Health was classified as a Skive, when we had open racism , no workers rights, Thatcher and  the rest. Our parent also the small fact of bombs dropping out the sky

How many people on here can honestly say that Brexit is going to have a massive impact on their lives ?  

Thats my point Cornwall, I am not saying things are good I am just saying it has been worse.  Far far worse

Final point, I said it was a £900 phone, not just  a phone

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Yes you may well be right . so how are things worse. Any on here who remember the 70's, or even before that, when Mental Health was classified as a Skive, when we had open racism , no workers rights, Thatcher and  the rest. Our parent also the small fact of bombs dropping out the sky

How many people on here can honestly say that Brexit is going to have a massive impact on their lives ?  

Thats my point Cornwall, I am not saying things are good I am just saying it has been worse.  Far far worse

Final point, I said it was a £900 phone, not just  a phone

In all fairness I can’t comment on the 70s as I wasn’t alive back then. Not going to argue on a point I don’t know. In my own lifetime, however short, I haven’t personally seen things as bad as this.

Well for a start as a Belgian citizen I’ll have to pay £65, otherwise I’ll become illegal, wont be able to work, get a flat, anything tbh :rolleyes: I know most of us on here won’t be in that situation but it certainly is the case for over 3 million people in the UK.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whatever paper had the headline Brexican Standoff has got it spot on. Corbyn is try to break the Tories in two and May knows it. He is demanding a removal of no deal to even talk knowing full well that May, if agreeing to that, would see the ERG group all but split from the party and it would be up to Tory's who they follow.  Corbyns problem is the clock is against him now and that has been ramped by the other parties in Westminster now agreeing to talks. One of them will have to give, it's a case of who will blink first. Either way this will end up in the softest of soft Brexits if it even happens at all as the ERG has insufficient support to take it in any other direction but they have sufficient numbers to take down May's government hence the high wire balancing act !

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...