Jump to content

Sign in to follow this  
Bud the Baker

Brexit Negotiations

Recommended Posts

3 minutes ago, antrin said:

Yes.  It's very different.

 

Due to UK Parliamentary Sovereignty, it's a constitutionally non-binding way of finding a bit about how the population feels.

For some unknown reason, {glory as the PM who did it?), May decided that as 30% of potential voters in the UK agreed with the swivel-eyed Brexit nutters pulling her own party apart that she'd go with that.   Then she rushed far too fast into it, announcing our leaving as soon as she could - with no need for such a rush - and while her Brexiteer ministers had yet to find out just how costly the whole exercise would be for the country.

 

Here's an example:

John Allan - President of the CBI on BBC Radio 4 this morning.

"The notion that we throw away the free trade agreements that we have with the EU and through the EU, that account for about 70% of our trade, and trade successfully under WTO rules is frankly cloud-cuckoo land."

 

Mate I know

 

 I was using the example of what voting actually means ................... it does mean nothing. We are a joke in this country, we still have the HOL, we still have first past the post, and when we do vote it may not result in the majority succeeding....................

Cameron saying today he doesnt regret having the referendum, what bollocks. I bet he regreats not making it 60% to change, and I also bet he regrets not giving that fanny Salmond Devomax...........................

All could have been plain and boring. Instead the markets react positive whilst the Buinesses shit themselves. The Housing market has slowed, and people hold back on Hols. Not to mention the problems we are not addressing

All this whilst Multi Millionaires like Rees Mogg supps Champers with other Tories to toast the success of the biggest defeat in history of their own government

You could not make it up

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

No it really wasn't.

There was plenty of discussion regarding how a Remain vote would result in the UK trying to reform the EU from within and equally strong moves by Germany and France to centralise further powers into Brussels with no clear idea about what "Remain" would look like in a few years.

You may have a slippery memory my friend but I do not.

That was always a part of the Uk's relationship with the EU.  (And should have been a basic ongoing instinct of any member nation.)

Nothing would have changed in that respect - it was not a new promise, a new offer - it was simply a case of remaining, of continuing the status quo, as in life, constantly changing but remaining the same.   

Why the f**k would anyone sane even contemplate how Remain would be changing anything?

 

A slippery memory is the least of your worries when you come out with absurdities like that.

Edited by antrin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, antrin said:

constantly changing but remaining the same.   

 

A slippery memory is the least of your worries when you come out with absurdities like that.

Constantly changing but remaining the same?

You should be careful referring to anyone's posts as absurd when you come out with pearls like that. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

You can argue this line all you want but really we need to move on from this idea that people on the other side from us were either too stupid to know what they were doing or that they were conditionally voting Leave. They voted leave. End of story.

You act like I’m in denial of the result. In my original post, of the three answers I suggested, none of them were to remain.

In truth there are actually a minority of leave voters who didn’t realise the consequences of their actions. The ones thick enough not to realise future holidays to Spain would not be as simple as they are now, that the EHIC may no longer exist for Brits among other things. Mainly those grouped in the “Britain is mighty, bow down to us” Little Englander mentality. Basically the Daily Mail/Express readers. Those with more intelligence knew there would be some downsides to their Leave vote and weren’t hit by the sudden shock of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

You act like I’m in denial of the result. In my original post, of the three answers I suggested, none of them were to remain.

In truth there are actually a minority of leave voters who didn’t realise the consequences of their actions. The ones thick enough not to realise future holidays to Spain would not be as simple as they are now, that the EHIC may no longer exist for Brits among other things. Mainly those grouped in the “Britain is mighty, bow down to us” Little Englander mentality. Basically the Daily Mail/Express readers. Those with more intelligence knew there would be some downsides to their Leave vote and weren’t hit by the sudden shock of it.

In fairness you are correct. I had missed that.

I agree with your second paragraph. There are always stupid people who vote for both sides.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Constantly changing but remaining the same?

You should be careful referring to anyone's posts as absurd when you come out with pearls like that. :lol:

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, DougJamie said:

Mate I know

 

 I was using the example of what voting actually means ................... it does mean nothing. We are a joke in this country, we still have the HOL, we still have first past the post, and when we do vote it may not result in the majority succeeding....................

Cameron saying today he doesnt regret having the referendum, what bollocks. I bet he regreats not making it 60% to change, and I also bet he regrets not giving that fanny Salmond Devomax...........................

All could have been plain and boring. Instead the markets react positive whilst the Buinesses shit themselves. The Housing market has slowed, and people hold back on Hols. Not to mention the problems we are not addressing

All this whilst Multi Millionaires like Rees Mogg supps Champers with other Tories to toast the success of the biggest defeat in history of their own government

You could not make it up

 

That is the folly of the stock markets - traders being paid a fortune in comissions to gamble with our pension money. These traders crave volatility and don't forget for every winner in the swings there is a loser in the roundabouts and the only people really making money are like I said the traders.

In case anyone needs reminding Jacob Rees-Mogg has made sure that whatever happens he won't lose out by opening a second investment fund in Ireland! 

EAT THE RICH!

Edited by Bud the Baker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

The Tories do that themselves. 

By quoting that one section of my comment you’ve completely taken it out of context. I’ve already said people voted to “Leave”. What they didnt vote on was “How to leave”. You have Leavers claiming “we voted for this, for that”, but that wasn’t the question. The question was purely Remain/Leave. No MP truly knows what the public want in regards to actually leaving.

Actually yes they do, we voted to leave the EEC, not stay attached to ANY part of it, not still abiding by ANY of their rules, not following ANY of their procedures, leave, LEAVE, not stay, not nearly leave, nor leave a little bit, nor leave later, Leave NOW!    we'll i''ll settle for March.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well that's the cross party talks well & truly fucked..............

Quote

Downing Street has flatly ruled out customs union membership, before the cross-party Brexit talks Theresa May promised on Tuesday night have even begun.

The prime minister responded to Tuesday’s historic defeat in the meaningful vote by pledging to speak to “senior parliamentarians” to identify a deal that could secure a majority.

But the Labour frontbench position is for a permanent customs union, as is that of Conservative backers of a Norway-style Brexit deal, making it unlikely talks with either group would get off the ground if May stands by that red line.

Speaking to journalists after prime minister’s questions on Wednesday, a spokesman for May said: “The principles that govern us as we go into these talks is that we want to be able to do our own trade deals, and that is incompatible with a customs union.”

May had said at PMQs that while she was seeking to learn “what could command the support of this house and deliver on the referendum”, any proposal must involve “opening up new opportunities to trade with the rest of the world”.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, jaybee said:

Actually yes they do, we voted to leave the EEC, not stay attached to ANY part of it, not still abiding by ANY of their rules, not following ANY of their procedures, leave, LEAVE, not stay, not nearly leave, nor leave a little bit, nor leave later, Leave NOW!    we'll i''ll settle for March.

Actually…

Wrong.

It was a vote to leave.  That I can agree with.

 

But it was not a vote to leave as you say... in the same way as in it was not a vote to leave by sticking sharp sticks in our eyes, poke hot irons up our arse or follow sevco forever after.  It was merely a vote to leave.

What the canny swivel-eyed Brexiteers and May have managed to negotiate as their leave deal (Because in an adult world,there must be agreements about splitting up) is so much worse than people could have imagined and much, much worse that what we have, already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, antrin said:
34 minutes ago, jaybee said:

Actually yes they do, we voted to leave the EEC, not stay attached to ANY part of it, not still abiding by ANY of their rules, not following ANY of their procedures, leave, LEAVE, not stay, not nearly leave, nor leave a little bit, nor leave later, Leave NOW!    we'll i''ll settle for March.

Actually…

Wrong.

It was a vote to leave.  That I can agree with.

 

But it was not a vote to leave as you say... in the same way as in it was not a vote to leave by sticking sharp sticks in our eyes, poke hot irons up our arse or follow sevco forever after.  It was merely a vote to leave.

What the canny swivel-eyed Brexiteers and May have managed to negotiate as their leave deal (Because in an adult world,there must be agreements about splitting up) is so much worse than people could have imagined and much, much worse that what we have, already.

I generally enjoy a debate but sorry there is only a one word answer to you sir and that is BOLLOX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, smcc said:

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

That phrase refers to merely cosmetic changes.

Not exactly relevant in the context of increasing powers being centralised to Brusselsif we remain in the EU.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, antrin said:
14 minutes ago, jaybee said:

I generally enjoy a debate but sorry there is only a one word answer to you sir and that is BOLLOX

Actually…

Wrong.

It was a vote to leave.  That I can agree with.

 

But it was not a vote to leave as you say... in the same way as in it was not a vote to leave by sticking sharp sticks in our eyes, poke hot irons up our arse or follow sevco forever after.  It was merely a vote to leave.

What the canny swivel-eyed Brexiteers and May have managed to negotiate as their leave deal (Because in an adult world,there must be agreements about splitting up) is so much worse than people could have imagined and much, much worse that what we have, already.

How can you enjoy a debate when you don't grasp the basics?

That must be very frustrating.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Britain’s net contribution last year was £8.6 billion, up from £4.3 billion in 2009.

A major cause of the increased contributions was Mr Blair’s decision to agree to a 7 per cent cut in the rebate during negotiations on the last EU budget deal. If you aggregate the added contributions since 2009 probably cost the country several billions on op of our 'normal' contributions.

 

So not quite everything that Captain Charisma negotiated was an advantage to us!

I was merely pointing out that EU has made concessions to UK over the years. Its fair to say we have had more opt outs and concessions that any other country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, antrin said:

How can you enjoy a debate when you don't grasp the basics?

That must be very frustrating.

In fairness he was correct.

You were talking out of your arse.

Not for the last time I'm sure. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, The Original 59er said:

Britain’s net contribution last year was £8.6 billion, up from £4.3 billion in 2009.

A major cause of the increased contributions was Mr Blair’s decision to agree to a 7 per cent cut in the rebate during negotiations on the last EU budget deal. If you aggregate the added contributions since 2009 probably cost the country several billions on op of our 'normal' contributions.

 

So not quite everything that Captain Charisma negotiated was an advantage to us!

You've talked about costs but our EU contribution is an investment.

Do do you know what the return on that £8.6 billion investment is?

Any clue at all?

I'll give you a start. Scientific research funding into the UK from the EU is £1-2bn alone I believe.

I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess at the amount of trade we gain from due to the lack of tarriffs (arrgh spelling!).

The point is that when you are talking about investments, you can't provide a list of the costs if you want to appear to be unbiased.

 

Edited by oaksoft

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's less than three years since the referendum and even my Fawlty memory recalls the prevailing mood of Leave voters which was "take back control of our borders" i.e. a hard Brexit, harder even then May's deal! To suggest that Leave voters didn't know what they were voting for is extremely patronising. That we haven't been able to secure the "easiest deal in history" is a far stronger argument against Brexit.
 
What amazes me is the Hard Brexit argument that since parliament rejected the deal it's now up to the EU to offer us something better.Even if the EU was so inclined (and we all know they're not) what could they offer that would secure a majority at Westminster? :wacko: 
There were at least 2 main groups campaigning to leave, plus various political groups and politicians. They didnt all campaign on the basis of taking back control of our borders.
Still waiting on someone explaining what taking back control of our borders actually means.

Some believed we would be better off economically, either individually or collectively.
Some believed that the NHS would get 350 million a week.
Some were racist.
Some believe the EU to be akin to a superstate denying is sovereignty.
I'm sure some had other reasons as there were 17 million people who voted to leave.

So if you believe the prevailing mood was all down to controlling the border or that they all wanted a hard brexit then your memory is indeed fawlty!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, antrin said:

How can you enjoy a debate when you don't grasp the basics?

That must be very frustrating.

I my friend can debate if required to, but there seems little point in debating with an intellect that is unable to grasp the basics, my answer to you was bollox, because if you talk bollox you get bollox as an answer.  My definition of leave, oddly enough coincides with many dictionary definitions, ie; Leave............. to depart, exit, go away, abandon, evacuate, vacate, ........... none of those; or at least as far as I am aware,  involve sticking sharp sticks in your eyes, or poking hot irons up your arse, or following Sevco, but HEY whatever rocks your boat.  If you would like a sensible debate you need to debate sensibly.  I put NO WORDS into my interpretation of ''leave' .   Many others have but I, my good friend haven't.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You've talked about costs but our EU contribution is an investment.
Do do you know what the return on that £8.6 billion investment is?
Any clue at all?
I'll give you a start. Scientific research funding into the UK from the EU is £1-2bn alone I believe.
I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess at the amount of trade we gain from due to the lack of tarriffs (arrgh spelling!).
The point is that when you are talking about investments, you can't provide a list of the costs if you want to appear to be unbiased.
 
f**k scientific research, well be getting blue passports and 350 million a week for the NHS.

What a time to be alive!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

f**k scientific research, well be getting blue passports and 350 million a week for the NHS.

What a time to be alive!

Great political theatre. Time will tell whether Tessa has been Stupid or Cute in her approach and handling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:
14 minutes ago, oaksoft said:
You've talked about costs but our EU contribution is an investment.
Do do you know what the return on that £8.6 billion investment is?
Any clue at all?
I'll give you a start. Scientific research funding into the UK from the EU is £1-2bn alone I believe.
I wouldn't even want to hazard a guess at the amount of trade we gain from due to the lack of tarriffs (arrgh spelling!).
The point is that when you are talking about investments, you can't provide a list of the costs if you want to appear to be unbiased.
 

f**k scientific research, well be getting blue passports and 350 million a week for the NHS.

What a time to be alive!

YES ...............     but only if you have Private Health Care insurance (and be sure not to contaminate the wards of the Plebs PLEASE) 

Oh and that 350 million.  ..................   should pay for about twenty minutes consultation from some rich fat Barstuard of a consultant

Mrs Thatcher has a lot to answer for.

 

RANT over for the moment     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

There were at least 2 main groups campaigning to leave, plus various political groups and politicians. They didnt all campaign on the basis of taking back control of our borders.
Still waiting on someone explaining what taking back control of our borders actually means.

Some believed we would be better off economically, either individually or collectively.
Some believed that the NHS would get 350 million a week.
Some were racist.
Some believe the EU to be akin to a superstate denying is sovereignty.
I'm sure some had other reasons as there were 17 million people who voted to leave.

So if you believe the prevailing mood was all down to controlling the border or that they all wanted a hard brexit then your memory is indeed fawlty!

So it wasn't the only reason why people voted leave - I didn't say it was but I still say the prevailing mood in the Leave camp was "taking back control of our borders", it's just another fault of the Remain campaign that they didn't pursue the argument that Freedom of Movement was beneficial to any great degree.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
YES ...............     but only if you have Private Health Care insurance (and be sure not to contaminate the wards of the Plebs PLEASE) 
Oh and that 350 million.  ..................   should pay for about twenty minutes consultation from some rich fat Barstuard of a consultant
Mrs Thatcher has a lot to answer for.
 
RANT over for the moment     
The last Labour government gave the doctors a bountiful contract.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:

The last Labour government gave the doctors a bountiful contract.

Impressive, judging by the current crop, I wasn't sure they could spell contract, never mind draw one up,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×