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Brexit Negotiations

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Andrea Leadsom on news earlier "Just because you reject a deal in it's entirety, doesn't mean you reject every element of it"
This is the calibre of the cunts trying to lead us through this, no wonder we are in the position we are.

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15 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:
17 minutes ago, jaybee said:
Impressive, judging by the current crop, I wasn't sure they could spell contract, never mind draw one up,

The Dr's, the government or Labour politicians? emoji3.png

PLEASE don't Ricky.....ise me for this; but I can claim to know and have worked with a few of the current crop of Politicians, (both in Scotland and in Engerland) of those, I would trust or consider supporting three or maybe four, sad isn't it.  The rest I would consign to oblivion.  My idea of a Politician is someone who doesn't want to be a Politician, desire to become one should debar you; from ever being one. but hey ..... that's another story.

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1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

There were at least 2 main groups campaigning to leave, plus various political groups and politicians. They didnt all campaign on the basis of taking back control of our borders.
Still waiting on someone explaining what taking back control of our borders actually means.

Some believed we would be better off economically, either individually or collectively.
Some believed that the NHS would get 350 million a week.
Some were racist.
Some believe the EU to be akin to a superstate denying is sovereignty.
I'm sure some had other reasons as there were 17 million people who voted to leave.

So if you believe the prevailing mood was all down to controlling the border or that they all wanted a hard brexit then your memory is indeed fawlty!

Immigration and sovereignty were by far the biggest reasons for voting Leave. All the other reasons are really sideshows and red herrings.

I'm not even prepared to say that the immigration thing was necessarily significantly racist either.

I have found some research evidence to back that up. First paragraph. I don't know who these guys are though so it may be biased but nevertheless it might be worth a quick look:

http://ukandeu.ac.uk/research-papers/peoples-stated-reasons-for-voting-leave-or-remain/

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4 hours ago, antrin said:

Are you the same person day to day?

Or is your body renewing in myriad ways, constantly?

Or is your alleged scientific bent in some obscure, irrelevant silo - with no access to general knowledge?

If you want me to respond to you, you should learn how to quote properly. That way your opinion doesn't disappear in the morass of other posts.

As for that last bit in bold? Go and talk to someone else unless you can find a more agreeable way to debate what is actually a pretty interesting topic.

Edited by oaksoft

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1 hour ago, TPAFKATS said:

Andrea Leadsom on news earlier "Just because you reject a deal in it's entirety, doesn't mean you reject every element of it"
This is the calibre of the cunts trying to lead us through this, no wonder we are in the position we are.

Actually she is right. :lol:

It's a common tactic to have 90% of a deal agreed and then some twat puts in a red line and presents the entire thing as a single package. They tried it with Scottish football reforms by sticking in the Colt team thing on top of a heap of otherwise good stuff. They tried it with the Good Friday agreement by trying to get the Nationalists to effectively "surrender" to the Unionists. You have to wonder what utter bellend could expect them to agree to that.

 Don't be too quick to dismiss her on this.

Edited by oaksoft

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6 minutes ago, oaksoft said:
4 hours ago, antrin said:

Are you the same person day to day?

Or is your body renewing in myriad ways, constantly?

Or is your alleged scientific bent in some obscure, irrelevant silo - with no access to general knowledge?

If you want me to respond to you, you should learn how to quote properly. That way your opinion doesn't disappear in the morass of other posts.

As for that last bit in bold? Go and talk to someone else unless you can find a more agreeable way to debate what is actually a pretty interesting topic.

Edited 2 minutes ago by oaksoft

I think antrin is a D.P.W.A.D. ie; a dangerous person with a dictionary.  If you wish to debate; you really need to THINK about what you are saying, there is a logical process ............. if this; then that etc and  I don't see any of that in your arguments.......................,sticks in your eyes and things up your bum don't really tend to be taken seriously as postulations  with regards to Brexit.  Perhaps you too should go to bed and let the adults talk.  B)

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Actually she is right.
It's a common tactic to have 90% of a deal agreed and then some twat puts in a red line and presents the entire thing as a single package. They tried it with Scottish football reforms by sticking in the Colt team thing on top of a heap of otherwise good stuff. They tried it with the Good Friday agreement by trying to get the Nationalists to effectively "surrender" to the Unionists. You have to wonder what utter bellend could expect them to agree to that.
 Don't be too quick to dismiss her on this.
Silly me, taking the words
entire and every
literally

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40 minutes ago, jaybee said:

I think antrin is a D.P.W.A.D. ie; a dangerous person with a dictionary.  If you wish to debate; you really need to THINK about what you are saying, there is a logical process ............. if this; then that etc and  I don't see any of that in your arguments.......................,sticks in your eyes and things up your bum don't really tend to be taken seriously as postulations  with regards to Brexit.  Perhaps you too should go to bed and let the adults talk.  B)

Are you talking to me with that bit in bold or antrim?

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1 hour ago, saintnextlifetime said:

By doing what. .

Where to begin?

Claiming we have no money to fund things like the NHS. Then selling it off to private companies who prioritise profit over care. Example: we have billionaire Richard Branson sueing the NHS because he hasn’t been given more contracts.

We have austerity measures but somehow they found £1bn to bung the DUP, they continue to find money for the ever pointless trident, they can write off MP expenses. The House of Lords continues to increase in size and with that increases the £300 dished out to each Lord who does the difficult task of clocking in. No austerity for them, funny that. Check some of the “expenses” lists MPs have claimed for. Absolute nonsense. 

Benefit claimants have seen money slashed. Bedroom tax is shambolic. The Rape Clause to claim tax credits for a third child is abhorrent. The ATOS “Fit for work” tests are not fit for purpose. Benefit sanctions leave people moneyless. Many have died either from starvation, or suicide when their debts have climbed too high. In some cases the threat of benefit cuts or being fit “found to work” when they really aren’t has also lead to suicides. The large amount of food banks opening shows how much the poor have suffered over the last 8 years.

But who gets the blame for a lack of money? Foreigners, immigrants, asylum seekers. Benefit claimants. The EU is apparently at fault. The government has allowed these groups to take the blame to take the heat off themselves.  As a result we have seen a more right wing Britain develop, increasing the hate of anyone foreign. You fine well know some leave voters voted in the hope EU citizens would be kicked out. The torrents of abuse aimed at refugees is sickening. This government has always deflected the real reasons for lack of money while spunking loads on shite elsewhere and allowing others to take the blame. The last 8 years has seen our beloved NHS being sold off, an increase in racism, an increase in poverty and an increase in homeless numbers. But also an increase in the pockets of the rich. Of course the Tories have f**king destabilised Britain.

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49 minutes ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Where to begin?

Claiming we have no money to fund things like the NHS. Then selling it off to private companies who prioritise profit over care. Example: we have billionaire Richard Branson sueing the NHS because he hasn’t been given more contracts.

We have austerity measures but somehow they found £1bn to bung the DUP, they continue to find money for the ever pointless trident, they can write off MP expenses. The House of Lords continues to increase in size and with that increases the £300 dished out to each Lord who does the difficult task of clocking in. No austerity for them, funny that. Check some of the “expenses” lists MPs have claimed for. Absolute nonsense. 

Benefit claimants have seen money slashed. Bedroom tax is shambolic. The Rape Clause to claim tax credits for a third child is abhorrent. The ATOS “Fit for work” tests are not fit for purpose. Benefit sanctions leave people moneyless. Many have died either from starvation, or suicide when their debts have climbed too high. In some cases the threat of benefit cuts or being fit “found to work” when they really aren’t has also lead to suicides. The large amount of food banks opening shows how much the poor have suffered over the last 8 years.

But who gets the blame for a lack of money? Foreigners, immigrants, asylum seekers. Benefit claimants. The EU is apparently at fault. The government has allowed these groups to take the blame to take the heat off themselves.  As a result we have seen a more right wing Britain develop, increasing the hate of anyone foreign. You fine well know some leave voters voted in the hope EU citizens would be kicked out. The torrents of abuse aimed at refugees is sickening. This government has always deflected the real reasons for lack of money while spunking loads on shite elsewhere and allowing others to take the blame. The last 8 years has seen our beloved NHS being sold off, an increase in racism, an increase in poverty and an increase in homeless numbers. But also an increase in the pockets of the rich. Of course the Tories have f**king destabilised Britain.

Maybe you need to stop watching so much news. Seriously. It's not healthy to be this negative.

None of this is as bad as you think.

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And Mrs May has made yet another (non)statement for dramatic effect at the door of Number 10.
Even by her standards that was pretty desperate stuff.

Mentioned the national interest at least 3 times - not sure what nation she meant?

I'm sure she almost burst into a laugh when she said the government had won the confidence of parliament.

Claimed to have held constructive talks with Cable & Blackford who have both issued statements differing from that.

Not sure what happened to the previous deal being the only deal on the table either, although I suppose she's done what she needed with that and ran 4 weeks of the calendar.

The most ridiculous thing however is that Corbyn is being out manoeuvred by May.

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16 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

Maybe you need to stop watching so much news. Seriously. It's not healthy to be this negative.

None of this is as bad as you think.

I don’t tend to watch the news often. Used to have it on a lot more.

Unfortunately it is that bad. The UC situation with benefits is disastrous and the evidence is there that ATOS “fit to work” tests are a pile of absolute shite. Back when I was with my ex we got hit with the bedroom tax (they say if your two kids are the same gender they should share a room) and it pushed us on the verge of having nothing left financially. I’m thankful that between my two jobs I don’t need to claim right now, I dread the possibility of that changing and going through the nonsense meetings with “Work coaches” who want you to take a 12 hour contract miles out of town which does absolutely nothing to help you financially.

Unfortunately many people have been suffering at the hands of these sanctions and cuts. I don’t want to be this negative, but I’m a realist. 

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1 hour ago, Cornwall_Saint said:

Where to begin?

Claiming we have no money to fund things like the NHS. Then selling it off to private companies who prioritise profit over care. Example: we have billionaire Richard Branson sueing the NHS because he hasn’t been given more contracts.

We have austerity measures but somehow they found £1bn to bung the DUP, they continue to find money for the ever pointless trident, they can write off MP expenses. The House of Lords continues to increase in size and with that increases the £300 dished out to each Lord who does the difficult task of clocking in. No austerity for them, funny that. Check some of the “expenses” lists MPs have claimed for. Absolute nonsense. 

Benefit claimants have seen money slashed. Bedroom tax is shambolic. The Rape Clause to claim tax credits for a third child is abhorrent. The ATOS “Fit for work” tests are not fit for purpose. Benefit sanctions leave people moneyless. Many have died either from starvation, or suicide when their debts have climbed too high. In some cases the threat of benefit cuts or being fit “found to work” when they really aren’t has also lead to suicides. The large amount of food banks opening shows how much the poor have suffered over the last 8 years.

But who gets the blame for a lack of money? Foreigners, immigrants, asylum seekers. Benefit claimants. The EU is apparently at fault. The government has allowed these groups to take the blame to take the heat off themselves.  As a result we have seen a more right wing Britain develop, increasing the hate of anyone foreign. You fine well know some leave voters voted in the hope EU citizens would be kicked out. The torrents of abuse aimed at refugees is sickening. This government has always deflected the real reasons for lack of money while spunking loads on shite elsewhere and allowing others to take the blame. The last 8 years has seen our beloved NHS being sold off, an increase in racism, an increase in poverty and an increase in homeless numbers. But also an increase in the pockets of the rich. Of course the Tories have f**king destabilised Britain.

Sorry buddie, I had forgotten it was a land of milk and honey before they got in. .

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Missed the latest non-statement from May but according to ex-PDE Sports Writer Andrew Neil she said nothing new!

Presumably watching games at Love St. Neil saw a few OGs but probably none as bad as the one JC made this evening by refusing to talk to May until she rules out a "No Deal Brexit" a mistake already being used to deflect the pressure from May by the gammon press down south!

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4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

If you want me to respond to you, you should learn how to quote properly. That way your opinion doesn't disappear in the morass of other posts.

As for that last bit in bold? Go and talk to someone else unless you can find a more agreeable way to debate what is actually a pretty interesting topic.

Fair enough.

i was giving you the benefit of the doubt - speaking to you as a normal sentient being - that you weren’t as thick as you’re now admitting.

i apologise for that.

Edited by antrin

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3 hours ago, oaksoft said:
4 hours ago, jaybee said:

I think antrin is a D.P.W.A.D. ie; a dangerous person with a dictionary.  If you wish to debate; you really need to THINK about what you are saying, there is a logical process ............. if this; then that etc and  I don't see any of that in your arguments.......................,sticks in your eyes and things up your bum don't really tend to be taken seriously as postulations  with regards to Brexit.  Perhaps you too should go to bed and let the adults talk.  B)

Are you talking to me with that bit in bold or antrim?

Antrin

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18 hours ago, jaybee said:

I think antrin is a D.P.W.A.D. ie; a dangerous person with a dictionary.  If you wish to debate; you really need to THINK about what you are saying, there is a logical process ............. if this; then that etc and  I don't see any of that in your arguments.......................,sticks in your eyes and things up your bum don't really tend to be taken seriously as postulations  with regards to Brexit.  Perhaps you too should go to bed and let the adults talk.  B)

I notice that in your responses to me you avoid tackling the points I make.  A common problem with swivel-eyed Brexiteers.

Mogg, Johnson, Gove, farrage, yourself are great at promising everything will be fine in the No Deal promised land, and yet refuse to answer any of the doubts and questions raised by those who are less optimistic.

instead you resort to ad hominem comments..  not bright and not unexpected.

For the same reason, oakshite will be annoyed at you correcting his misspelling of my nom de plume.  He uses that as ad hominem when he runs out of intelligent response.  Eg every post to me.

I think oakshite is being too respectful to him.  What do you think?

(saves you addressing any problems Brexit may cause).

and also respectfully, just because you can’t see logic doesn’t mean it’s not there - you may well be the weak link in that chain.  Not me.

 

Edited by antrin

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