Brexit Negotiations

[oaksoft]

So her deal will be rejected again.

This time MPs will get to vote either for No Deal or Delay.

They'll vote for Delay.

Then in a year's time they'll vote Delay again.

And again and again until we are a few years down the line, another PM is elected, another referendum is called and people vote Remain and this whole episode finally disappears.

Who had that on their coupon?

Edited February 26, 2019 by oaksoft

[jaybee]

On 2/22/2019 at 1:43 PM, Doakes said:

Couldn't agree more. Self interest / preservation in politics causes so many issues. Becoming PM is a job that should really require a strong set of individual values. Instead these "leaders" act in a way that cements their own short term ambitions, but doesn't reflect what is best for the UK as a whole. Not sure what the answer is though

It's called Revolution, one gathers all the barstuards together and then one gets a whetstone, sharpens the blade , you will need loads of wicker baskets, sawdust (to soak up the nasty red stuff) and I think it should only take a week or so to 'solve the problem', 16 hours decapitating and 8 hour recuperating, yes!  

[Doakes]

On 2/26/2019 at 6:25 PM, saintnextlifetime said:

Sorry , l don't see how Cameron giving us the vote was a f**k up as we got a long awaited vote on an issue that we should have voted on many years before . Perhaps we didn't get the vote before because politicians didn't want that kind of answer? Or did you mean it was a f**k up for him because he didn't get the vote he expected ?

The PM must have said about 50 times that we would be leaving on the 29th of March , then 3 of her Cabinet ministers said we should seek a delay . They should have been sacked .

We are now likely to move to an indefinite delay as the Eurocrats and the PM hope that the whole thing just blows over . There obviously is no Party in that House capable of leading the country which leaves the door open to extremism , something we thankfully have never had in this country. .

If we don't leave the sinking hulk that is Europe , we here in the UK will go down with it .

A referendum is a terrible way to do politics.  Especially on an issue that isn’t as simple as yes or no.

[Bud the Baker]

 

On 2/26/2019 at 6:25 PM, saintnextlifetime said:

Sorry , l don't see how Cameron giving us the vote was a f**k up as we got a long awaited vote on an issue that we should have voted on many years before . Perhaps we didn't get the vote before because politicians didn't want that kind of answer? Or did you mean it was a f**k up for him because he didn't get the vote he expected ?

The PM must have said about 50 times that we would be leaving on the 29th of March , then 3 of her Cabinet ministers said we should seek a delay . They should have been sacked .

We are now likely to move to an indefinite delay as the Eurocrats and the PM hope that the whole thing just blows over . There obviously is no Party in that House capable of leading the country which leaves the door open to extremism , something we thankfully have never had in this country. .

 

 Removed your last sentence but broadly speaking I agree with the above.

[beyond our ken]

On 2/26/2019 at 6:25 PM, saintnextlifetime said:

we got a long awaited vote on an issue that we should have voted on many years before . .

EXCEPT

we did get 2 separate referenda, many years ago, on this very subject  One on the entry and one on the terms and future direction.  

And ever since then we have had a stream of extremist nutters refusing to accept the democratic will of the people of the UK as expressed in those two votes.  Their mantra seems to currently be that anyone who can see the shifest we have inflicted upon ourselves and calls for a second look at how our collective economic suicide note is actually going to play out for us is anti-democratic.

You couldn't make it up, not that you'd need to

[Wendy Saintss]

And ever since then we have had a stream of extremist nutters refusing to accept the democratic will of the people of the UK as expressed in those two votes. Their mantra seems to currently be that anyone who can see the shifest we have inflicted upon ourselves and calls for a second look at how our collective economic suicide note is actually going to play out for us is anti-democratic.
You couldn't make it up, not that you'd need to

Should the same apply if Scotland votes for independence in a second independence referendum?

[Kemp]

16 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

Should the same apply if Scotland votes for independence in a second independence referendum?

 

Only if the Yes campaign is demonstrably guilty of election fraud.

[Bud the Baker]

4 hours ago, Wendy Saintss said:



Should the same apply if Scotland votes for independence in a second independence referendum?

Depends on how detailed the prospectus for leaving is - for the IndyRef it was pretty much all mapped out in contrast to the Brexit one.

[Seaside Nipper]

Hmm, to Brexit or not Brexit.

Well one Brexiteer has shown his hand....................

Britain's wealthiest man to invest almost £1bn in Infrastructure improvement's in Oil and Gas, with almost all of it ( £850m )  going to Grangemouth and the Forties Pipeline system. Is Scotland's government ashamed to admit this incoming money or are they shit scared to tell Patrick.

Investment like this is huge and is crucial to Scotland's economy. Why is Nicola as FM not acknowledging this.

[oaksoft]

On 3/2/2019 at 7:32 AM, Wendy Saintss said:

 

Should the same apply if Scotland votes for independence in a second independence referendum?

Those asking for a second Brexit referendum but only one Indyref referendum have some explaining to do on this.

Edited March 5, 2019 by oaksoft

[oaksoft]

On 3/2/2019 at 11:48 AM, Bud the Baker said:

Depends on how detailed the prospectus for leaving is - for the IndyRef it was pretty much all mapped out in contrast to the Brexit one.

No it wasn't. Honestly, why treat people like idiots?

There was no guarantee of currency, trading relationships with other nations or EU membership.

IndyRef was pretty much identical to Brexit in that regard. You had to vote assuming a clean, no deal break.

It wasn't possible to have any certainty.

[antrin]

On ‎3‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 11:48 AM, Bud the Baker said:

Depends on how detailed the prospectus for leaving is - for the IndyRef it was pretty much all mapped out in contrast to the Brexit one.

Yes there was a long prospectus - much better and certainly more honest and truthful than the vacuum provided by Brexiteers - but much of that detail was embarrassing or not massively relevant.

 

We will still be able to watch East Enders.

We will keep the Queen.

We will keep the same old pound.

Edited March 5, 2019 by antrin

[beyond our ken]

48 minutes ago, antrin said:

Yes there was a long prospectus - much better and certainly more honest and truthful than the vacuum provided by Brexiteers - but much of that detail was embarrassing or not massively relevant.

 

We will still be able to watch East Enders.That depends, Scotland currently pays in ove £100 million/year in TV licence fees, but only a small fraction of that spent on Sottish programming and programmes.  Ireland pays £21 million a year for access to all BBC output

We will keep the Queen.  Good, if she needs to be kept and England seems a lovely place for that

We will keep the same old pound.  

 

[Wendy Saintss]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

Those asking for a second Brexit referendum but only one Indyref referendum have some explaining to do on this.

Those against Brexit but backing Scexit and vice versa have some explaining to do.

[melmac]

Bring back Maggie T, she will def hold more sway, show more leadership, have more authority and personality and than that May ejit. Might stink the place up a bit, but hey ho.

[beyond our ken]

On 3/2/2019 at 7:32 AM, Wendy Saintss said:

 

Should the same apply if Scotland votes for independence in a second independence referendum?

 

I am not a proponent of a second indyref,  Since the last one I havecome to think that the future for scotland is more federalist and radical inside, the UK-preferrably a UK within the EU

 however the case for bailing out of the failing British union is getting stronger by the day.  Being against one specific union doesn't mean you have to be against ALL unions

[Wendy Saintss]

 

20 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

 however the case for bailing out of the failing British union is getting stronger by the day. 

Bailing out of the UK would be a shitfest we would inflict upon ourselves and be our economic suicide note.

 

 

[beyond our ken]

50 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

 

Bailing out of the UK would be a shitfest we would inflict upon ourselves and be our economic suicide note.

 

 

You are making the grand assumption that the rest of the UK is done writing such notes.

[Bud the Baker]

4 hours ago, oaksoft said:

No it wasn't. Honestly, why treat people like idiots?

There was no guarantee of currency, trading relationships with other nations or EU membership.

IndyRef was pretty much identical to Brexit in that regard. You had to vote assuming a clean, no deal break.

It wasn't possible to have any certainty.

The Yes campaign published a detailed manifesto here's what they said on the two issues mentioned 

•  currency was an issue where the then Chancellor George Osbourne exceeded his powers - the Bank of England is actually the Bank of England, Scotland, NI & Wales as confirmed by the last Governor but one, Mervyn King, and was made independant from Government interference by the Blair government so @antrin SNP policy on keeping the £ at least on an interim basis was consistent with these decisions.
• the intent to stay in the EU as Full Members was clearly stated and as far as I can remember the only country to voice any dissent was Spain.

Fair enough there was a degree of uncertainty amplified by Project Fear but it's just untrue to suggest the Independence campaign was as "back of a fag-packet" as Brexit. The "we love you Scotland, but if you leave we'll absolutely fuck you up" message should have been reason enough to leave (sic) in itself - it's practically domestic abuse .  

In the RealWorld^TM everyone knew there would be a transition period where things carried on as before like the Westminster government agreed with the EU till the end of 2020 (4¹⁄₂ years from the date of the Brexit referendum) to work out the details and this would have been with a Scottish government looking to make things work. Honestly, why treat people like idiots?

********************

Nothing that's happened since 2014 has convinced me that I was wrong to vote Yes. 

 

 

 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Bud the Baker

[Wendy Saintss]

24 minutes ago, beyond our ken said:

You are making the grand assumption that the rest of the UK is done writing such notes.

No I'm not

[jaybee]

The main issue that I can see regarding both Brexit and the Scdy referendum is simply that (in both referendums) those who lost are away greeting to their Mammy that it's nae fair; we wus lied to, we demand a recount or a re-match or a new vote or a different vote or anything  ......... but ................   Yes we would have been perfectly happy had we won and if those who lost had started greeting fur their Mammy, we would have told them, we had a vote, you lost, suck it up. ............   well1 don't you think it's time to do that? suck it up and shut the feck up. Please.  

Edited March 5, 2019 by jaybee

[Wendy Saintss]

The Yes campaign published a detailed manifesto here's what they said on the two issues mentioned 

•  currency was an issue where the then Chancellor George Osbourne exceeded his powers - the Bank of England is actually the Bank of England, Scotland, NI & Wales as confirmed by the last Governor but one, Mervyn King, and was made independant from Government interference by the Blair government so [mention=15031]antrin[/mention] SNP policy on keeping the £ at least on an interim basis was consistent with these decisions.
• the intent to stay in the EU as Full Members was clearly stated and as far as I can remember the only country to voice any dissent was Spain.

 

On your two issues, the Brexit position was: * for the UK to keep using the pound and * for the UK to *actually* (not just an intent) cease being members of the EU (edited to avoid cockless threatening to put me in hospital! [emoji23])

Next!

 

 

 

[Wendy Saintss]

Just now, jaybee said:

The main issue that I can see regarding both Brexit and the Scdy referendum is simply that (in both referendums) those who lost are away greeting to their Mammy that it's nae fair; we wus lied to, we demand a recount or a re-match or a new vote or a different vote or anything  ......... but ................   Yes we would have been perfectly happy had we won and if those who lost had started greeting fur their Mammy, we would have told them, we had a vote, you lost, suck it up. ............   well1 don't you think it's time to do that? suck it up and shut the feck up. Please.  

Indeed.

And had remain won, then we'd currently be witnessing UKIP being the most popular party in the UK, just at the SNP's popularity went through the roof after 2014.

UKIP was England's SNP and Brexit is England's independence!

[Bud the Baker]

17 minutes ago, Wendy Saintss said:

On your two issues, the Brexit position was:

* for the UK to keep using the pound and 

* for the UK to *actually* (not just an intent) cease being members of the UK

Next!

Scotland Keeping the pound (sterling) was/is within our rights as I've pointed out.

Leaving the UK was a process to be implemented over a transition period. As things stood in 2014 if rUK had remained in the EU we could have negotiated both processes (Independence & joining the EU as an independent country) over say the 4¹⁄₂ year period of notice the UK gave the EU.

Next!

PS - Take a deep breath! 

Edited March 5, 2019 by Bud the Baker

[Wendy Saintss]

The UK to ACTUALLY cease being members of the UK [emoji23]

 

Are typos the best you can do thicko?

 

You should stick to trying to learn to tell the time mr internet gangster! [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]