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Bud the Baker

Brexit Negotiations

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Looks like Norway is getting a poor deal , they ought to annex Berlin. .

I think it's that the other 3 get good deals. In comparison UK €79 (due to rebate), Italy €79, France €100, Germany €131, Netherlands €140. 

 

Also, the 4 EFTA countries have to adopt all single market legislation (e.g. Norway has incorporated approximately 75% of all EU legislative acts into Norwegian legislation) and, relative to population, they received twice the inflow of EU migrants as the UK (based on 2013-14 data).

 

 

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9 hours ago, Slartibartfast said:


 

 


Of the four EFTA members, Norway pays €115 per capita into the EU budget, Switzerland €12, Lichtenstein €40 and Iceland actually gets €25 per capita from the EU.

 

They don't pay anything into the EU budget. 

 

No idea where you get your info from, but that's total garbage.

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They don't pay anything into the EU budget. 

 

No idea where you get your info from, but that's total garbage.

Sources: calculations based on European Commission data on the EU budget for EU countries, data received from the Directorate-General for Budget of the European Commission for the four non-EU countries upon request, Eurostat for GDP and population for all countries except GDP of Liechtenstein, which is based on UN data.

 

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1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said:

I think it's that the other 3 get good deals. In comparison UK €79 (due to rebate), Italy €79, France €100, Germany €131, Netherlands €140. 

 

Also, the 4 EFTA countries have to adopt all single market legislation (e.g. Norway has incorporated approximately 75% of all EU legislative acts into Norwegian legislation) and, relative to population, they received twice the inflow of EU migrants as the UK (based on 2013-14 data).

 

 

all single market legislation is deal with in the EEA treaty. Norway is free to adopt whatever EU legislation over and about the single market acquis that is chooses. Its not compelled in any way whatsoever. Here's part of a blog post Iworked on with another chap around three years ago

 

 

For sure, as part of the EEA package, there is provision for a range of financial contributions, but these include "Norway Grants", made by Norway to eastern enlargement countries to help with their post-Communist economic rehabilitation. 

In the period 2009-14, these grants amounted to €804 million, supporting 61 programmes in 13 countries in Europe including the member countries that joined in 2004 and 2007. But this money is not remitted to the EU and is not part of the EU budget. It is administered separately, under the aegis of the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. 

Norway also provides 95 percent of the funding to the EEA Grants. The two together amounted to €1.8bn over the period, of which €1.71bn was paid by Norway. As with the Norway grants, the EEA grants are not part of the EU budget. They are administered by the independent Financial Mechanism Committee.

These payments are part of the EEA agreement but they are not specifically payments for access to the Single Market. They are effectively part of Norway's strategy for co-operation with the EU. 

That, however, is not the full extent of relations. As of 2014, Norway participated in twelve EU programmes, including Horizon 2020, Erasmus +, the Consumer Programme and the Copernicus programme. It also has a bilateral arrangement for participation in interregional programmes under the EU's Regional Policy. 

Additionally, it takes part in the activities of 27 EU agencies. These include the Education, Audiovisual and Culture Executive Agency (EACEA), the European Agency for the Management of Operational Cooperation at the External Borders (FRONTEX), the European Agency for Safety and Health at Work (EU-OSHA), the European Chemicals Agency (ECHA), the European Defence Agency (EDA), the Executive Agency for Health and Consumers (EAHC), the Research Executive Agency (REA) and the European Police College (CEPOL). 

As to the budget for these activities, over the 2007-2013 multi-annual period, total EU spending was around €70 billion, of which the estimated EFTA contribution was in the order of €1.7 billion – averaging approximately €250 million a year. Norway carried 95.77 percent of that cost (€1.63bn). 

This cash, therefore, is for services rendered and, even then, the funding was not one-way. Around €1.01bn was returned from EU funds, making the seven-year net contribution in the order of €620m - or about €90 million a year.

In the Seventh Framework (research) Programme, for instance, Icelandic and Norwegian participants, including many small and medium-sized enterprises (SMEs), were involved. Icelandic researchers were contributed to 217 projects, receiving funding of nearly €70 million. Norwegian researchers contributed to more than 1,400 projects, receiving €712 million. Both Iceland and Norway signed up to the successor programme, Horizon 2020. 

As to the specific EFTA contributions paid for the functioning of the Single Market, these come out of the EFTA budget, to which Norway pays its contribution. There is no direct payment to the EU. 

Currently the annual (2014) budget is 22,360,000 Swiss Francs (about £16 million), of which 55 percent is borne by Norway. This includes categories defined as EEA related activities, EFTA/EU statistical cooperation and EU/EFTA cooperation programmes. That, strictly, is the cost of Single Market Access which, on a pro-rata basis, would cost the UK less than £100 million per annum. 

However, if the total gross amount were taken for Norway's annual payments were taken, that would amount to about £500 million in real money. Should the UK leave the EU and rejoin the EEA, the pro-rata payment would amount to about £6 billion a year gross – just under a third of current gross payments – or about £4 billion net. If it is done on a GDP ratio, the UK's economy is five times the size of Norway's, we would pay £2.5 billion gross. Net, that might work out at as little as £1.8bn.
 

 

 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Sources: calculations based on European Commission data on the EU budget for EU countries, data received from the Directorate-General for Budget of the European Commission for the four non-EU countries upon request, Eurostat for GDP and population for all countries except GDP of Liechtenstein, which is based on UN data.

 

Your sources are wrong then. Plain and simple. Or deliberately misleading 

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25 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:
29 minutes ago, Reynard said:
You can then admit you were wrong and we can all move on. 

Wait a minute, your source is you? FFS!

The sources are shown. If you'd managed to read through it then you'd have seen that all sources of information are linked to.

 

You are trying to shoot the messenger rather than contributing anything worthwhile. You've been shown (with links) what Norway makes contributions to. Not a penny of that is to the EU budget. If you can prove otherwise then go for it.

 

You've been sold a lie sadly.

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It was a response to Oliver Kamm who was writing similar nonsense about Norway and EFTA countries in The Times. It was written prior to the referendum. So its not been a new thing to see this sort of total misinformation being spread around by ignoramuses and liars. Its clear that it works on some people who still think people like Kamm are "experts"

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41 minutes ago, Reynard said:

As to the specific EFTA contributions paid for the functioning of the Single Market, these come out of the EFTA budget, to which Norway pays its contribution. There is no direct payment to the EU. 

There is no direct payment to the EU, but there certainly are several indirect payments. The net result is the same!

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3 minutes ago, smcc said:

There is no direct payment to the EU, but there certainly are several indirect payments. The net result is the same!

 

Those are by choice, for programmes like Erasmus and other things i detailed that they wish to participate in. All countries that wish to participate in them will contribute to the costs of operating them. They are separate from the EU budget. They contribute nothing to the operational costs of running the EU

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2 minutes ago, Drew said:

Foxy is being a wee bit confrontational in his approach to this discussion.... :huh:

 

I'm just annoyed that people still spread pig ignorance about what EFTA countries contribute money towards.

 

IT does get boring having to correct people constantly.

 

And I do believe I was being ridiculed earlier by some poster. So, if I respond in kind, which I didn,t, then it could be understandable.

 

Anyway. I've made my point, and its been backed up with some actual information that might help a few people understand the situation better.

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From the EFTA website:

"It provides for the inclusion of EU legislation covering the four freedoms ..."

---

EEA Agreement

 
The Agreement on the European Economic Area, which entered into force on 1 January 1994, brings together the EU Member States and the three EEA EFTA States — Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway — in a single market, referred to as the "Internal Market".

The EEA Agreement guarantees equal rights and obligations within the Internal Market for individuals and economic operators in the EEA. It provides for the inclusion of EU legislation covering the four freedoms — the free movement of goods, services, persons and capital — throughout the 31 EEA States. In addition, the Agreement covers cooperation in other important areas such as research and development, education, social policy, the environment, consumer protection, tourism and culture, collectively known as “flanking and horizontal” policies. The Agreement guarantees equal rights and obligations within the Internal Market for citizens and economic operators in the EEA.

---

And (http://www.efta.int/faq):

---

How do the EEA EFTA States contribute financially to the EU?

The financial contributions of the EEA EFTA States to the EU related to the EEA Agreement are twofold.
 
First, the EEA EFTA States contribute towards reducing economic and social disparities in the EEA through the EEA Grants. Currently the beneficiary states include Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Republic, Estonia, Greece, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia and Slovenia. In addition to the EEA Grants, Norway has funded a parallel scheme since 2004 – the Norway Grants. The funding period covering 2014-2021 has a total financial envelope of approximately EUR 400 million per year. These contributions are not managed by the EU, but by the EFTA Financial Mechanism Office in collaboration with the beneficiary countries.

Second, the EEA EFTA States contribute towards the EU programmes and agencies that they participate in on the basis of the EEA Agreement. These contributions are added to the EU budget, increasing the total financial envelopes of the programmes and agencies in question. For the current 2014-2020 EU multiannual budget period, the total EEA EFTA contribution to EU programmes and agencies is approximately EUR 460 million per year.

---

So, who to believe, the official EFTA website (or, more precisely, Thorfinnur Omarsson, Senior Information and Communication Officer, Secretary-General's Office writing on the official EFTA website) or the known right wing guy with an agenda on a football forum?  Hard choice.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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1 hour ago, Reynard said:

The sources are shown. If you'd managed to read through it then you'd have seen that all sources of information are linked to.

 

You are trying to shoot the messenger rather than contributing anything worthwhile. You've been shown (with links) what Norway makes contributions to. Not a penny of that is to the EU budget. If you can prove otherwise then go for it.

 

You've been sold a lie sadly.

Truthfully, I stopped reading as soon as I read the Blue Peter "Here's one I made earlier" line.

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14 minutes ago, smcc said:

How soon do you think he will be back trying to split hairs?

The way I look at it, he wants to re-join EFTA, EFTA says they contribute to the EU Budget (as part of the EEA agreement) so, if we were in EFTA then we would be officially contributing to the EU Budget.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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15 minutes ago, Longtimecoming said:

He's a brexiteer.

They are proven liars as per their lying bus.

Brexit is an agenda for Little Englanders and racists and it is we in Scotland who will suffer their racist agenda the most.

Just for clarity, I voted "Leave", so please don't lump us all in with the liars and racists.  Irrespective of that, what he is claiming is at best disingenuous and at worst downright deceitful.

Edited by Slartibartfast

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1 hour ago, Slartibartfast said:

The way I look at it, he wants to re-join EFTA, EFTA says they contribute to the EU Budget (as part of the EEA agreement) so, if we were in EFTA then we would be officially contributing to the EU Budget.

EFTA is a standalone organisation. IT is not a part of the EU. You've been shown that you're talking nonsense on this.

 

As you managed to to use google, maybe you'd like to try article 112-113 of the EEA treaty now. This deals with your "four freedoms"

 

Norway pay into the EFTA budget. NOT the EU budget.

 

They are bound by the EEA treaty as thats how EFTA countries can be a part of the single market. The single market is not part of the EU. The EU is a whole different thing. Its a political union and a treaty organisation. Norway is not part of it and doesn't contribute to any of the costs of operating that.

 

Maybe if you'd managed to actually read what I'd posted up instead of wallowing in your ignorance of the subject you'd get on a bit better.

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