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St Mirren's stance on SFA EBT


notabuddie
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Guest TPAFKATS
Yes TPAFKATS however at that time the EBTs were regarded as legal as Rangers had won the tax case first time round. On appeal the HMRC finally won the case thereby having Rangers commit tax fraud and secondly these payments were not registered with the SFA thereby not disclosing full contract details which they are required to do for registered players. HMRC's final victory should be good grounds for invalidating Nimmo's decision.

Mibees that's the route that someone should go down then. At the moment it looks as though some fans and clubs aren't happy with the judicial review outcome and are calling for another review.
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1 minute ago, TPAFKATS said:


Rangers lose titles, sellik overtake them in number of titles won which is awfully important to their fans.

Ah,I never thought of that.I thought you meant Sellic would try and claim the stripped titles as their own.......which I believe they have no interest in doing.

Anyway your reason is another reason to strip them........I'm sick of hearing about going for 55.

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4 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said:


Rangers lose titles, sellik overtake them in number of titles won which is awfully important to their fans.

Ok but that also shows how thick OF  fans are....... Cause Gers stopped winning titles when they died, so Celtic will overtake them at some point, unless Jack gets us on a wee roll

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1 hour ago, Vambo57 said:

 

I believe it was not one club who asked for a Review by the SFA, but The SPFL (all clubs or maybe just the Board?)

With the SFA refusing to do so (self-preservation on sooooooo many levels). I believe this brings the SFA into disrepute and something needs to happen.  Surely they should be reported to UEFA, FIFA or some other (also corrupt) body?

There is an artical Q & A with Regan in todays record stating the SFA have spent 100's thousands on legal bills already on this case. Im not saying their stance is right here but when does it end. Tax powers can take them to the cleaners why has it  ot been done ? 

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Guest TPAFKATS
What didn't it find?

He did, but then again it would be a hard thing to prove.
 
If they couldn't afford to sign the players that they did then they would have signed "lesser" players who may or may not have turned out to be better than the "better" players they couldn't afford.  They may also have signed "lesser" players that other teams ended up signing, thereby potentially weakening their opposition.  Of course, the "lesser lesser" players that the other teams would have then signed instead may also have turned out to be better than the "lesser" players.  And on and on and ...
 
What can be said with a fair degree of certainty is that they expected that they were getting a sporting advantage and that should be enough - financial cheating to try to gain a sporting advantage.

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Guest TPAFKATS
Ah,I never thought of that.I thought you meant Sellic would try and claim the stripped titles as their own.......which I believe they have no interest in doing.
Anyway your reason is another reason to strip them........I'm sick of hearing about going for 55.

A lot of sellik fans think they can or should claim any titles rangers lose on account of them finishing second.

Going for 55 has a few years left in it yet
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15 hours ago, slapsalmon said:

It was contested. They lost the appeal, and the next appeal, and now there's nowhere else to appeal to. They're now liquidated(or still in the process of being)

They also won two appeals, in fact the appeals they won were chaired by tax experts and the appeals they lost were chaired by lawyers. 

Most tax experts regard EBTs as a "legitimate loophole" and thousands of companies in the UK have used them. 

HMRC threatened loads of them to give them up and pay the tax they would otherwise have paid. If the final tribunal had found against the revenue, these other companies would have a case for going back to them and saying give us back that money we refunded. The cost to the public purse would have been huge. 

And before any of you ask, I'm a lifelong Saints supporter with as much contempt for the bigot brothers as anyone else. That doesn't mean however that I'm not interested in the truth in a story that has been spun out of control. 

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This has long been the most tedious and boring saga in Scottish football ever.

I actually find it quite tragic that some fans are emailing their clubs demanding to know their stance on it as they are obviously just looking to be outraged.

As this has been going on for so many years, I think fans should have came to two conclusions by now:

1) If so outraged at cheating, sweeping stuff under the carpet, corrupt SFA/SPFL etc, fans should have long stopped going to football or having anything to do with it. If they feel that strongly about it.

2) You aren't really that outraged, don't care anymore and really just want to go to games and enjoy them and forget all about this that happened years and years ago.

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For the other 40 Clubs that don't either cheat/steal/ chant death threats/ support terrorism , I think we should just draw a line thru it......

I mean if we had 50 times the budget of the vast majority of other Scottish clubs we would probably have 55 titles already , ( and more Renfrewshire Cups):whistle

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3 hours ago, Thorizaar said:

This has long been the most tedious and boring saga in Scottish football ever.

I actually find it quite tragic that some fans are emailing their clubs demanding to know their stance on it as they are obviously just looking to be outraged.

As this has been going on for so many years, I think fans should have came to two conclusions by now:

1) If so outraged at cheating, sweeping stuff under the carpet, corrupt SFA/SPFL etc, fans should have long stopped going to football or having anything to do with it. If they feel that strongly about it.

2) You aren't really that outraged, don't care anymore and really just want to go to games and enjoy them and forget all about this that happened years and years ago.

Why should fans of honest clubs stop supporting their team and making them poorer for it, perhaps even putting them out of the game with no chance of the corrupt establishment giving them the same advantage given to the new club?

Enjoying your team is not exclusive to being outraged at the corruption in our game.

In fact, by walking away you just allow the cheats and corrupt in the game to peddle their lies and cover ups.

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Guest TPAFKATS
Why should fans of honest clubs stop supporting their team and making them poorer for it, perhaps even putting them out of the game with no chance of the corrupt establishment giving them the same advantage given to the new club?
Enjoying your team is not exclusive to being outraged at the corruption in our game.
In fact, by walking away you just allow the cheats and corrupt in the game to peddle their lies and cover ups.

Ffs, don't mention walking away
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Would certainly hope for an independent review. Covering the general governance of the game and 'Rangers'.  They cheated Scottish football and I would like be to know what the SFA were up to during this time.

Any other sport the award/ title for success would be removed, the same should apply here.

I wonder why 'Rangers' and the SFA are against it?.....

 

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7 hours ago, TPAFKATS said:


Rangers lose titles, sellik overtake them in number of titles won which is awfully important to their fans.

This is all its about, a pathetic contest between two clubs and neanderthal fans who are only interested in their bastardised version of history. It's two bald men fighting over a comb. 

Quite frankly, I don't care. The club should say and do nothing, as that's what this nonsense deserves.

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On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 10:19 PM, Hendo said:

This is all its about, a pathetic contest between two clubs and neanderthal fans who are only interested in their bastardised version of history. It's two bald men fighting over a comb. 

Quite frankly, I don't care. The club should say and do nothing, as that's what this nonsense deserves.

It's about far more than that. It's about the proper, honest governing of our game. It's about who knew what, and just as importantly, when. It's about why the deed club were allowed to get away with things. It should also be about why the new club were allowed to circumvent rules to be allowed to start life in the bottom rung of our professional league. The whole episode needs to be looked at. This is a case where dirty linen should be publicly washed. I hope it happens and, at the end of the process, we rid ourselves of those who were complicit and hopefully be seen to be doing something about it. I don't give a flying fcuk about titles. Those in the green part, and I deliberately say part as they are not Half of Glasgow's clubs, may want some sort of petty point scoring vendetta but for the rest of us this should be about cleaning up our game and shipping those out who sullied our collective name internationally.

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47 minutes ago, melmac said:

An independent inquiry from the Scot Gov is what is needed, a full who's to blame but with no repurcussions so the full truth comes out.

Genuine question....

Who pays for that, and can it be justified when investment is required elsewhere?

 

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9 hours ago, melmac said:

An independent inquiry from the Scot Gov is what is needed, a full who's to blame but with no repurcussions so the full truth comes out.

 

9 hours ago, Drew said:

Genuine question....

Who pays for that, and can it be justified when investment is required elsewhere?

 

I agree Drew. It would certainly make us poorer but the Scottish football hierarchy made the mess. They, and that includes us, should foot the bill. It's not the government's mess. It's the football authorities. If there are legal implications, and I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, then the state can intervene.

For our club to say nothing is an act of complicity.

Edited by stlucifer
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Dont disagree with most of this Sonny however didn't nimmo Smith conclude that there was no sporting advantage gained from ebt use at ibrox?

Sporting advantage is used with all clubs who can afford better players than others. It's never a level playing field, not saying buys trophies but in most cases it does IMO
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On 12/09/2017 at 3:06 PM, uhura said:

They also won two appeals, in fact the appeals they won were chaired by tax experts and the appeals they lost were chaired by lawyers. 

Most tax experts regard EBTs as a "legitimate loophole" and thousands of companies in the UK have used them. 

HMRC threatened loads of them to give them up and pay the tax they would otherwise have paid. If the final tribunal had found against the revenue, these other companies would have a case for going back to them and saying give us back that money we refunded. The cost to the public purse would have been huge. 

And before any of you ask, I'm a lifelong Saints supporter with as much contempt for the bigot brothers as anyone else. That doesn't mean however that I'm not interested in the truth in a story that has been spun out of control. 

This is not about tax evasion, it's about failing to declare payments to the SFA. Which means that the players were not properly registered the penalty for playing such a player should be to over turn the result 3:0 . There's really nothing complicated about.

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Guest TPAFKATS
It's about far more than that. It's about the proper, honest governing of our game. It's about who knew what, and just as importantly, when. It's about why the deed club were allowed to get away with things. It should also be about why the new club were allowed to circumvent rules to be allowed to start life in the bottom rung of our professional league. The whole episode needs to be looked at. This is a case where dirty linen should be publicly washed. I hope it happens and, at the end of the process, we rid ourselves of those who were complicit and hopefully be seen to be doing something about it. I don't give a flying fcuk about titles. Those in the green part, and I deliberately say part as they are not Half of Glasgow's clubs, may want some sort of petty point scoring vendetta but for the rest of us this should be about cleaning up our game and shipping those out who sullied our collective name internationally.

A lot of this was sorted at the time, including being voted through by the other clubs.

A review of the governing bodies us long overdue though
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On 9/12/2017 at 3:06 PM, uhura said:

They also won two appeals, in fact the appeals they won were chaired by tax experts and the appeals they lost were chaired by lawyers. 

Most tax experts regard EBTs as a "legitimate loophole" and thousands of companies in the UK have used them. 

HMRC threatened loads of them to give them up and pay the tax they would otherwise have paid. If the final tribunal had found against the revenue, these other companies would have a case for going back to them and saying give us back that money we refunded. The cost to the public purse would have been huge. 

And before any of you ask, I'm a lifelong Saints supporter with as much contempt for the bigot brothers as anyone else. That doesn't mean however that I'm not interested in the truth in a story that has been spun out of control. 

How many of these thousand of companies are British?

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