Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 11, 2017 Report Share Posted October 11, 2017 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 27, 2017 Report Share Posted October 27, 2017 Catalonia has now declared itself an independent republic. Spain continues to behave as it has all through this sad episode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 23 hours ago, TPAFKATS said: Catalonia has now declared itself an independent republic. Spain continues to behave as it has all through this sad episode. At this stage, with no concrete evidence that independence is wanted by the majority, I'm not clear Spain is behaving in any way other than they really could. It's quite amusing that the Scottish nationalists support this attempted move for independence by a region of Spain with such passion. What next, independence for Renfrewshire? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood buddie Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 I just hope they get it sorted soon , i have some euro's i want to sell back to Asda and this carry on just makes the buy back rates sh*te. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 6 minutes ago, faraway saint said: At this stage, with no concrete evidence that independence is wanted by the majority, I'm not clear Spain is behaving in any way other than they really could. It's quite amusing that the Scottish nationalists support this attempted move for independence by a region of Spain with such passion. What next, independence for Renfrewshire? The Catalan administration pursued every legitimate means by which to organise a referendum. Spain weren't interested, and demonstrated complacency and contempt. If you are interested in the history, you will know that this is a situation that is almost 100 years in the making. Of course, Franco intervened (remember him). Self-determination is an entirely reasonable aspiration of any community. Repression is corrosive and shames Spain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, Drew said: The Catalan administration pursued every legitimate means by which to organise a referendum. Spain weren't interested, and demonstrated complacency and contempt. If you are interested in the history, you will know that this is a situation that is almost 100 years in the making. Of course, Franco intervened (remember him). Self-determination is an entirely reasonable aspiration of any community. Repression is corrosive and shames Spain. So, where do we draw the line for this yearning for independence? The historical references mean little as it's what the people want now is important, which as I said is less than convincing. A reasonable aspiration for a community, freedom for Feegie? Edited: The historical issue could well mean more than I indicated as these issues run deep in many communities and families. I agree with Salmonbuddie that the initial reaction was a major blunder. Edited October 29, 2017 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintnextlifetime Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 33 minutes ago, Drew said: The Catalan administration pursued every legitimate means by which to organise a referendum. Spain weren't interested, and demonstrated complacency and contempt. If you are interested in the history, you will know that this is a situation that is almost 100 years in the making. Of course, Franco intervened (remember him). Self-determination is an entirely reasonable aspiration of any community. Repression is corrosive and shames Spain. Whilst l think the Catalans do have the right to claim full self determination, l don't think it will make a great deal of difference whilst they remain united to Brussels/Berlin . . Some of the old wounds from the Franco era are still festering by the looks. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 4 hours ago, faraway saint said: So, where do we draw the line for this yearning for independence? Does it matter? People should have the right to choose who governs them. Can you not accept that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 So, where do we draw the line for this yearning for independence? The historical references mean little as it's what the people want now is important, which as I said is less than convincing. A reasonable aspiration for a community, freedom for Feegie? [emoji38] How about they have a referendum supported by the national government so that everyone votes and the true figures are known? I think if they'd supported the first referendum then independence would have been defeated. I also think that their actions might just have swung the majority to independence if another was held today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 5 hours ago, oaksoft said: Does it matter? People should have the right to choose who governs them. Can you not accept that? By your reckoning a town could go for independence. Maybe a street, or a house? Can you not see that? Of course it matters ya idiot. Edited October 29, 2017 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, salmonbuddie said: How about they have a referendum supported by the national government so that everyone votes and the true figures are known? I think if they'd supported the first referendum then independence would have been defeated. I also think that their actions might just have swung the majority to independence if another was held today. Possibly. Edited October 29, 2017 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Only my opinion, faraway, needlessly badly handled making things much, much worse than they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 2 hours ago, salmonbuddie said: Only my opinion, faraway, needlessly badly handled making things much, much worse than they were. I agreed on an earlier post. Now, what else can be bicker about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 I agreed on an earlier post. Now, what else can be bicker about? [emoji14] Mistyping the word "we"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Just now, salmonbuddie said: Mistyping the word "we"? Fanny! How's that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonbuddie Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Fanny! How's that? Not cricket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 12 hours ago, faraway saint said: So, where do we draw the line for this yearning for independence? The historical references mean little as it's what the people want now is important, which as I said is less than convincing. A reasonable aspiration for a community, freedom for Feegie? Edited: The historical issue could well mean more than I indicated as these issues run deep in many communities and families. I agree with Salmonbuddie that the initial reaction was a major blunder. Yes, Spain should have allowed the referendum to go ahead without undue interference rather than sending in the jackboot wearing grunts. Had they done that, they could then query the method and outcome in a proper and proportionate manner. It was a grossly stupid way to respond to a very deeply rooted issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 5 hours ago, faraway saint said: By your reckoning a town could go for independence. Maybe a street, or a house? Can you not see that? Don't be so bloody stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 10 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Don't be so bloody stupid. Your post was as close to preposterous as is your ability to use common sense. Run along, football coming on soon. Edited October 29, 2017 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Your post was as close to preposterous as is your ability to use common sense. Run along, football coming on soon. Far be it for me to defend oakstur but he's entirely correct on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 (edited) 40 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: Far be it for me to defend oakstur but he's entirely correct on this Tell me, how would this work and how far does this "right" go? Sorry, totally absurd in reality. PS Not the idea, the practicality. Edited October 29, 2017 by faraway saint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Tell me, how would this work and how far does this "right" go? Sorry, totally absurd in reality. PS Not the idea, the practicality. To use your examples of ferguslie and refrewshire- they dont have their own distinct language, flag, culture and sense of nationhood that Catalonia / Catalunya has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 1 minute ago, TPAFKATS said: To use your examples of ferguslie and refrewshire- they dont have their own distinct language, flag, culture and sense of nationhood that Catalonia / Catalunya has. Is that a prerequisite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 Is that a prerequisite? To being a nation? Aye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faraway saint Posted October 29, 2017 Report Share Posted October 29, 2017 14 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: To being a nation? Aye. Yorkshire will be next then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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