St.Ricky Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 43 minutes ago, munoz said: The majority of Saints fans haven't been brainwashed by religious hatred from an early age , so I'd say this gives them/us a huge advantage on how we turn out. Nothing to do with genetics. I think we both see where Oaksoft is coming from. I personally prefer to take the view, similar to you, that bringing kids up in a culture that doesn't encourage religious intolerance helps avoid them adopting any of these traits . Each parent does that differently. Like you, I felt very strongly about this. My choice was to take them to these games where the could see behaviour which our family culture thought unacceptable and realise how offensive and filled with bile both sides were. Others might choose just not to take them along. That's also a valid choice although it's one I don't like as it is allowing others who's behaviour I dislike to impact on my life choices and enjoyment of watching my team play. I didn't and won't give them that satisfaction and in the process deny my vocal and financial support to what was my local team. Edited November 5, 2018 by St.Ricky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St.Ricky Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 hours ago, cockles1987 said: Yet Try and remember what you post. I have not, at any time, said that a member did this. What I am saying that with so many in the vicinity it's difficult to imagine that no one saw anything. not impossible, but difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 It is difficult to imagine, unless you were actually in W7 at the time - that no one seen someone throw a coin, but that seems to be what has happened. Mattman posted before explaining that it's not actually a "group", more an area where like minded fans congregate to get behind the team. The group identity means that we need to be somewhat responsible for what goes on in W7, but it's almost impossible to stop rockets being rockets. As Stevey Thompson said, if you're the type of rocket that throws a coin - you're the type of rocket that doesnae care about consequence. On an unrelated note, think it would be great if we could get a big noisy section of the support together at Dundee. Open invite to stand with us and sing on the boys on Saturday afternoon. I'm sure the team will appreciate the vocal support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Who ever did it will have a real tough time of it when caught. The press are all over coin incidents your name and probably photo plastered all over the press is a high price going to be paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 5 hours ago, munoz said: The majority of Saints fans haven't been brainwashed by religious hatred from an early age , so I'd say this gives them/us a huge advantage on how we turn out. Nothing to do with genetics. Hearts and Hibs fans are brought up brainwashed by religious hatred? What about Aberdeen, Motherwell etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, portmahomack saint said: Considering who we were playing that's a distinct possibility You reckon there's a chance it was a Rangers fan throwing a coin at Morelos after scoring a goal? I must have misread that surely. Edited November 5, 2018 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munoz Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 32 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Hearts and Hibs fans are brought up brainwashed by religious hatred? What about Aberdeen, Motherwell etc? I'm pretty sure many Hearts and Hibs will be , so yes. I'm not quite sure why you've mentioned Aberdeen and Motherwell, and can only assume it was because of the problem they had with Casuals which was about 30years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TPAFKATS Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Hearts and Hibs fans are brought up brainwashed by religious hatred? What about Aberdeen, Motherwell etc? Not all hearts and hibs fans, however they do have a significant number.The old pit villages of mid Lothian seem to nurture anti Catholic bigotry same as in Ayrshire.Hibs were the original team for those of Irish descent, before the glasgow mob stole their players and hooped strip.It's moved on a bit, but the history still stokes the embers of it. Just not as well reported as the old firm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munoz Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, TPAFKATS said: Not all hearts and hibs fans, however they do have a significant number. The old pit villages of mid Lothian seem to nurture anti Catholic bigotry same as in Ayrshire. Hibs were the original team for those of Irish descent, before the glasgow mob stole their players and hooped strip. It's moved on a bit, but the history still stokes the embers of it. Just not as well reported as the old firm. Bang on . I think some people are in denial of the problems that sectarianism cause in this country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isle Of Bute Saint Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 34 minutes ago, oaksoft said: You reckon there's a chance it was a Rangers fan throwing a coin at Morelos after scoring a goal? I must have misread that surely. Samson was hit by a coin there was also coins found around his goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfellow Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Why does the club continually pander to this bunch of schoolboys and adults who act like schoolboys. They don't improve the atmosphere. I can't hear them from w2 anyway and theyare a nuisance at away games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnus Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 minute ago, Oldfellow said: Why does the club continually pander to this bunch of schoolboys and adults who act like schoolboys. They don't improve the atmosphere. I can't hear them from w2 anyway and theyare a nuisance at away games. I've heard that the sound of sweeties being unwrapped in W2 is deafening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamhammer Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 1 hour ago, oaksoft said: Hearts and Hibs fans are brought up brainwashed by religious hatred? What about Aberdeen, Motherwell etc? Yes Hibs fans are a great example given the scenes after the 2016 cup final. Comparing that with the 2013 league cup final, I say their percentage of morons is much higher than ours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 56 minutes ago, munoz said: I'm pretty sure many Hearts and Hibs will be , so yes. I'm not quite sure why you've mentioned Aberdeen and Motherwell, and can only assume it was because of the problem they had with Casuals which was about 30years ago. I've mentioned other clubs because when you talked about sectarianism you seem to have misread my post. I was talking about us having the same percentage as EVERY other club. You focussed on just two. as though there were no other clubs outside the OF. I don't agree with your assertion about the OF anyway. The percentage of each club prepared to engage in violent activities is going to be about the same. The OF can boast about a million supporters between them so it's inevitable that the absolute numbers will be higher. That is why I was talking about relative percentages. There is absolutely no way we can be taking the moral high ground after what happened on Saturday within our own support. Edited November 5, 2018 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Iamhammer said: Yes Hibs fans are a great example given the scenes after the 2016 cup final. Comparing that with the 2013 league cup final, I say their percentage of morons is much higher than ours. Again, another one who can't understand the difference between relative numbers and absolute numbers. You are confusing both terms. We are in NO position to criticise any clubs supporters after Saturday. Edited November 5, 2018 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 44 minutes ago, munoz said: Bang on . I think some people are in denial of the problems that sectarianism cause in this country. There is an accusation on this very forum that one of the most vocal members of W7 walked the entire length of the West Stand to bellow "f**k the queen" at Rangers fans. There certainly are some who are in denial of the problems of sectarianism but if that allegation is true, we have it within our own vocal support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 15 hours ago, oaksoft said: Why would you doubt it? You reckon Saints fans are genetically programmed to be better people than those from Hearts, Hibs etc? Genetically programmed? No. But I reckon a huge number of OF fans are environmentally programmed to be scumbags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said: Genetically programmed? No. But I reckon a huge number of OF fans are environmentally programmed to be scumbags. I am not disputing that but the proportion prepared to be violent won't be much different from our own support. As I keep saying, we have lost the right to make claims such as yours after Saturday. A coin gets thrown from a section containing hundreds of our fans but everyone has turned deaf, dumb and blind as regards identifying them or wanting to talk about it. The police have identified troublesome elements of our support and have sensibly tried reaching out to those seen as leaders of them to try and ensure even the talk of any trouble is nipped in the bud and several of them ran around the forum screeching about the police treating them like criminals only to admit the true story after being hounded for nearly 20 pages on this forum. No, I am pretty confident we have the same proportion of troublemakers in our fanbase. I would like to see it dealt with ruthlessly but it seems denial is the order of the day. Just like within the supports of every other club. People make nice noises about wanting people banned but when push comes to shove they won't lift a finger to help the club identify the troublemakers. Edited November 5, 2018 by oaksoft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doakes Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 (edited) 30 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Again, another one who can't understand the difference between relative numbers and absolute numbers. You are confusing both terms. We are in NO position to criticise any clubs supporters after Saturday. I agree on the relative numbers, always going to be a few idiots dotted around. Same could count for any sport though. Some of the worst behaviour I've seen at a sports event was at the British Open golf at Carnoustie. Guys near the bar throwing stuff at each other, breaking wooden chairs and generally being idiots. Same applies to darts. Football is more tribal, so each club gets its own "identity". I'd say our support is generally pretty well behaved. You wouldn't say all golf fans from Fife or Angus are louts because a few of them can't behave. The problem in football is how easily your identity/reputation can change. So I do agree that we need to keep a lid on things. Edited November 5, 2018 by Doakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: I am not disputing that but the proportion prepared to be violent won't be much different from our own support. A classic case of not getting to the end of the thread before responding. Not only had Munoz already made the same point as me, but also I misunderstood your point. For clarity, do I think the OF have a higher percentage of idiots than us? Yes, and not only idiots, I mean extremely vile individuals. Do I think any other team in Scotland has a higher percentage? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Doakes said: I agree on the relative numbers, always going to be a few idiots dotted around. Same could count for any sport though. Some of the worst behaviour I've seen at a sports event was at the British Open golf at Carnoustie. Guys near the bar throwing stuff at each other, breaking wooden chairs and generally being idiots. Same applies to darts. Football is more tribal, so each club gets its own "identity". I'd say our support is generally pretty well behaved. You wouldn't say all golf fans from Fife or Angus are louts because a few of them can't behave. The problem in football is how easily your identity/reputation can change. So I do agree that we need to keep a lid on things. Are you actually attempting to equate golf and football here in terms of hooliganism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said: A classic case of not getting to the end of the thread before responding. Yeah, well I can be as guilty of that as you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Are you actually attempting to equate golf and football here in terms of hooliganism? Don't be too quick to judge him Oaky unless you've been in a pub when the Kilmacolm GC bootboys face off against the Old Ranfurly Division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaksoft Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 Just now, TPAFKA Jersey 2 said: Don't be too quick to judge him Oaky unless you've been in a pub when the Kilmacolm GC bootboys face off against the Old Ranfurly Division. Damn, I was hoping you weren't going to bring that up that legendary rivalry. I wonder how many deaths and serious injuries have been caused by golf fans or fans of pretty much any other sport in comparison to football? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPAFKA Jersey 2 Posted November 5, 2018 Report Share Posted November 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Damn, I was hoping you weren't going to bring that up that legendary rivalry. I wonder how many deaths and serious injuries have been caused by golf fans or fans of pretty much any other sport in comparison to football? I'm pretty sure bullfighting would trump football. There's a few deaths at virtually every match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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