January 2018 Transfer Window

[Soctty]

21 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

We have Mullen and Sutton as options. We also have the option of changing the way the midfield sits with two new signings in that area if we need to change the way we attack.

If we get one injury to a CB we don't have a natural replacement on the bench, with our luck with injuries and possible suspensions I'm not comfortable with that. Granted the CB option from the bench isn't a regular one but is still needed sometimes to protect a lead or in the event of injury or red cards (which has happened a good few times this season) 

If you haven't realised by now that the manager doesn't rate Sutton I don't know when you will. I'm happy to go with the feeling of the management team who have us 8 points clear at the top of the league.

I can see the merit in another centre back, but as has been pointed out, it would be a guy willing to settle for being 4th choice with little chance of playing. My preference is that of Jack and James - get another option in, bit of power with more mobility than Sutton offers at this point.

We are actively trying to sign another striker. We have no links with any central defenders. This may change, but I'm relaxed about the whole thing, knowing we can go to another emergency loan if need be.

[bazil85]

5 minutes ago, Sonny said:

For half the season we only had two fit CBs (our weakest two at the time) and we got to the top of the League. We now have 3 fit CB's and 2 back-ups so are stronger now than we were from July to Xmas!

Harry has had two bad knee injuries (different knees) so has been unlucky but does not have a history of injury problems - a bit like Darren MaGregor. He is now fit but Jack is nursing him back so did not want to play him in only his second or third game on an artificial surface - this has not ruled him out of artificial pitches for all time. Harry played nearly 200 games for Crewe over 6 years - more than 30 games a season. Gary MacKenzie played 37 games for us last season so I do not know where you think that Gary has glass legs.

And Sutton will not start for St Mirren. Jack has tried to get rid of him at least 3 times.  I believe jack is looking for a big, (well bigger than Reilly, Smith or Mullan), mobile striker to provide a different option if necessary and that is not going to be John Sutton.

Look at the goals against stats this season before Davis was back mate, they're not the best reading. I appreciate Davis has injured different knees however who's to say they'll ever be the same again. You can easily risk further injuries. Mac has missed a lot of this season and also missed a good bit early last season as well with several different injuries (reported) things are good right now with Baird and Davis having a good partnership but I feel if something happened then we could be in a bit of trouble. Especially with Mac not getting much game time to cover. 

Sutton is still a good impact player as is Mullan. Reilly up front with Smith behind him will be what we go with for rest of the season unless there's injuries or a major form dip. Having Mullan as another option and Sutton off the bench for me has us pretty rich for choice in that area and good options to cover injuries. We don't have the same in defense. 

[Soctty]

Edited January 17, 2018 by Soctty

[bazil85]

1 minute ago, Soctty said:

If you haven't realised by now that the manager doesn't rate Sutton I don't know when you will. I'm happy to go with the feeling of the management team who have us 8 points clear at the top of the league.

I can see the merit in another centre back, but as has been pointed out, it would be a guy willing to settle for being 4th choice with little chance of playing. My preference is that of Jack and James - get another option in, bit of power with more mobility than Sutton offers at this point.

We are actively trying to sign another striker. We have no links with any central defenders. This may change, but I'm relaxed about the whole thing, knowing we can go to another emergency loan if need be.

I fully appreciate he doesn't fancy him, all I'm saying is he is still a decent option as JR has also felt in games this season bringing him off the bench. As for management team feelings, as far as I'm aware this is all speculation. I haven't heard JR say anything along the lines of he's just looking for a striker and not a CB so management feelings doesn't cut it in this debate for me sorry. 

Any striker coming in will be in the exact same situation as a CB or worse off. potentially coming in behind three strikers (and one position) so again I'm not seeing your point? Either that or Mullan falls to fourth choice which i also don't think he'd be happy with. 

[Stu]

Do we not have anyone in the under-20s who could step up and play centre-half? Could have sworn I saw somewhere that Mark Hill can play there, although I can't find the article so I probably imagined that.

We could probably do with another player there if the budget allows it, however finding someone who fits the bill and is happy to sit and wait for his chance is going to be hard.

[Soctty]

Just now, bazil85 said:

I fully appreciate he doesn't fancy him, all I'm saying is he is still a decent option as JR has also felt in games this season bringing him off the bench. As for management team feelings, as far as I'm aware this is all speculation. I haven't heard JR say anything along the lines of he's just looking for a striker and not a CB so management feelings doesn't cut it in this debate for me sorry. 

Any striker coming in will be in the exact same situation as a CB or worse off. potentially coming in behind three strikers (and one position) so again I'm not seeing your point? Either that or Mullan falls to fourth choice which i also don't think he'd be happy with. 

He's a decent option but Jack wants better, someone he can bring on in most games, or start if he feels like it.

"Management feelings doesn't cut it in this debate." - Fair enough.

Any striker coming in will get far more opportunity off the bench than Buchanan got once Gary Mack was fit, hence the reason he wanted out. 

So we don't want another striker and do want another centre back - another exclusive from The Jack Baird Fan Club...

[pod]

37 minutes ago, thomsons dropped it said:

 

You two taking the Mick.....

There's only one and he signed yesterday.

[melmac]

Hippolyte would be ideal as we're gonna need to fill Morgan's place at some point, why not now - give him a few months to bed in and league n cup winners medals, he'll be flying by August when the All Ireland twins come calling.

[Sonny]

20 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Look at the goals against stats this season before Davis was back mate, they're not the best reading. I appreciate Davis has injured different knees however who's to say they'll ever be the same again. You can easily risk further injuries. Mac has missed a lot of this season and also missed a good bit early last season as well with several different injuries (reported) things are good right now with Baird and Davis having a good partnership but I feel if something happened then we could be in a bit of trouble. Especially with Mac not getting much game time to cover. 

Sutton is still a good impact player as is Mullan. Reilly up front with Smith behind him will be what we go with for rest of the season unless there's injuries or a major form dip. Having Mullan as another option and Sutton off the bench for me has us pretty rich for choice in that area and good options to cover injuries. We don't have the same in defense. 

I give up on you Basil. Maybe Davis will never be the same again but it did not stop Darren McGregor and if Harry is now a lesser player then his current performances will do me. And Gary played 37 games last season so how did he miss 'a good bit early last season'? How many games did he miss exactly through injury last season? You are also arguing that Gary has not had much game time so do you suggest we bring in someone who has been playing regularly to be fourth choice? Someone like Buchanan who left because he could not get a game? Whatever way you want to look at it we are better covered better now in central defence than we have been in years.

And whatever you think of Sutton is irrelevant - the manager does not rate him and won't consider him for a starting position. Sutton mostly comes on to wind the clock down.

But I am finished with this. We do not need to sign another experienced, regular playing centre half. And Jack thinks so too.

[Dave The Buddie]

No doubt that yet again J & J have, along with the backing behind them, have been wheeling and been dealing in the transfer window to improve our squad and team with some skill juggling all the factors.
We will see on Saturday how well we can compete with a very proficient Premiership team, and that will help us gauge how good our squad/team is at this time - especially with next season in mind.
We have offloaded  a few, and farmed out some younger guys to gain experience and help the finances - all good reasons indeed.
Mullen is a much better option than what we had previously, and already has contributed when needed...goals will follow if he keeps getting game time and stays fit.
Flynn had been offered one of the longest contracts currently - so there is real belief that he will contribute a lot.. and something that was required... we can look forward to seeing what he will bring.
Hill gives us much more in the middle of the park (and can play at centre-back too).. our guys there are great, but any knocks, illnesses or suspensions and we have been low on options in midfield at times previously. 
Flanagan, Todd, Kirkpatrick,  should all become available at some point too - and utilising them to bring off weary legs, save fatigue or prevent knocks, especially when games are won could prove most wise at the sharp end of the season.
Personally I think there is more competition in the squad now - and that is a good problem to have. e.g. We have had ECK and Stelios fighting for Left back. Eck was injured at the start of the season and is currently - on both occasions Stelios has filled the gap, and he is currently playing really well. It is tough since Eck has some fabulous games when he had his chance too. But if either player is playing, we are not weakened in that position..
We now have a bit better cover in other areas too..
Any others coming in - need to be Premiership Quality - another striker who can hit 15 goals or more there in a season, and lay on a good number would go down well indeed.. (no pressure guys). We are not there yet, but we need to plan early - it is a tough place to play... and we want to hit the ground running and keep getting better...
 

If we go up this year and I’m certainly not not counting my chickens. We will add more quality in the summer and some will be shipped out. I’m delighted with the squad currently like yourself. Competition all over.

[Drew]

6 minutes ago, melmac said:

Hippolyte would be ideal as we're gonna need to fill Morgan's place at some point, why not now - give him a few months to bed in and league n cup winners medals, he'll be flying by August when the All Ireland twins come calling.

Flanagan.

[melmac]

Aye, he'll knock them into shape.

[Isle Of Bute Saint]

You never have enough players for me the three players brought in this window have strengthened an already strong squad if we get an extra striker then all good if not it is not the end of the world after all we have scored more goals than any other club the title is in our own hands. United have to make a trip to Inverness the best form team after us. We travel to Dunfermline these two games could be a big moment for us to go on and win the title.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Isle Of Bute Saint

[DougJamie]

4 minutes ago, Dave The Buddie said:

 

 

If we go up this year and I’m certainly not not counting my chickens. We will add more quality in the summer and some will be shipped out. I’m delighted with the squad currently like yourself. Competition all over.

 

The club has to count chickens, we have Morgan to get us up, made signings to get us up and geared to Premiership....................

The supporters at this stage with an 8 point advantage over a totally crap United in Freefall, have to 100% believe this is in the Bag, as do the Bookies..................

Not telling u what to think.................

I would hate to finish second in this league...................... For me Caley look the team to go up with us. They have a good head of steam, good players and gaining fast . Pars also are in form........................

Apart from Saints, Pars and Caley, the rest are going backwards......

Morton are failing to score, Queens are so inconsistent as are Livi, Sons are in big trouble as are Falkirk, who apparently were rank against Morton. And  United since being on our coat tails have one victory in this round versus the team that everyone beats Brechin............

Since Round 3 of 9 games began, United have lost to us 2-0, Falkirk 6-1 and lucky draw with Pars 0-0...... In that time we are winning 2-0, 2-0, 1-0 and really should have buried Ton in first 45 mins...................

United would need a massive turnaround in their form and a dramatic drop in ours.......

 

 

[bazil85]

31 minutes ago, Sonny said:

I give up on you Basil. Maybe Davis will never be the same again but it did not stop Darren McGregor and if Harry is now a lesser player then his current performances will do me. And Gary played 37 games last season so how did he miss 'a good bit early last season'? How many games did he miss exactly through injury last season? You are also arguing that Gary has not had much game time so do you suggest we bring in someone who has been playing regularly to be fourth choice? Someone like Buchanan who left because he could not get a game? Whatever way you want to look at it we are better covered better now in central defence than we have been in years.

And whatever you think of Sutton is irrelevant - the manager does not rate him and won't consider him for a starting position. Sutton mostly comes on to wind the clock down.

But I am finished with this. We do not need to sign another experienced, regular playing centre half. And Jack thinks so too.

Seems like you give up on me because I'm not willing to bow down to your point of view? The irony is whatever argument you throw for not bringing in a CB you have to mirror for a striker. They'll still have to come in second fiddle to Reilly, Smith and have Mullan as competition as well. How's that any different from Mac, Davis and Baird?.. One difference is we play with two CB and one striker. We have options for the role Smith plays and other midfield options to shuffle our offensive. 

Last season Mac didn't play until September and also missed a few games through the season, he played 37 out of 49 games so almost 1 in 4 games for our first choice CB. He's missed the last two/ three months roughly with injury and reports are it's more than one injury. When Baird and Mac were playing the start of this season we were leaking goals a lot more than we are now which leads me to the concern if Davis gets injured again.

I'm not saying Davis will 100% get injured but if you don't think McGregor is somewhat of an exception I don't know what to say. Davis could be injury free for rest of his career, he could be out for 10 months tomorrow. If that happens we have a reliance on only two CB and a pairing we know struggled early in the season. Again look at goals conceded when Mac and Baird were our CB this season.

i know Sutton isn't in the plans but has still featured off the bench and scored this season, he doesn't want to leave so ultimately he's an extra option we don't have at CB. I'm pretty sure that's been JR choice to bring him on. Take him out the equation we still have three ST options, same as CB so to make an argument that we need one and not the other is complete nonsense. (again when we only play one feckin striker and two CB) 

As for Jack thinking so to, show me one interview with him where he's said that? this is all speculation. 

[bazil85]

1 hour ago, Soctty said:

He's a decent option but Jack wants better, someone he can bring on in most games, or start if he feels like it.

"Management feelings doesn't cut it in this debate." - Fair enough.

Any striker coming in will get far more opportunity off the bench than Buchanan got once Gary Mack was fit, hence the reason he wanted out. 

So we don't want another striker and do want another centre back - another exclusive from The Jack Baird Fan Club...

Just incorrect, I'm only saying my opinion on what we need like everyone else. JR hasn't came out saying he wants one and not the other. It baffles me people can't see a debate for a new CB with the position we'd be in if one got injured.  

Jack Baird has been doing better I have to say, still a few recent moments where I've wanted to boot a seat right enough 

[pod]

6 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Jack Baird has been doing better I have to say, still a few recent moments where I've wanted to boot a seat right enough 

Do it often,  much to the annoyance of the person in front.    Accidently of course, kicking every imaginary ball. 

[billyg]

8 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Just incorrect, I'm only saying my opinion on what we need like everyone else. JR hasn't came out saying he wants one and not the other. It baffles me people can't see a debate for a new CB with the position we'd be in if one got injured.  

Jack Baird has been doing better I have to say, still a few recent moments where I've wanted to boot a seat right enough 

Although things are looking good for us just now I still think we're too predictable in forward areas , everyone knows we're going to play one wee striker with another wee guy dropping off . JR obviously feels that we need a more mobile big forward so he has the option to change things about , that's why he's trying to get one in on a permanent deal. As for the defence , we're well covered just now, but should the worst happen re Davis or Gary Mc then JR knows how to play the emergency loan market , the way he did with McCart !

[Eric Arthur Blair]

Re the centre back situation, we have three at the moment, as well as Irvine and Eckersley who can play there. As others have said, if we have a problem, an emergency loan would suffice, with McCart an ideal choice to come back, having been here before.

McCart can't come back, we already have two players on loan from Celtic.

[Sonny]

17 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

Seems like you give up on me because I'm not willing to bow down to your point of view? The irony is whatever argument you throw for not bringing in a CB you have to mirror for a striker. They'll still have to come in second fiddle to Reilly, Smith and have Mullan as competition as well. How's that any different from Mac, Davis and Baird?.. One difference is we play with two CB and one striker. We have options for the role Smith plays and other midfield options to shuffle our offensive. 

Last season Mac didn't play until September and also missed a few games through the season, he played 37 out of 49 games so almost 1 in 4 games for our first choice CB. He's missed the last two/ three months roughly with injury and reports are it's more than one injury. When Baird and Mac were playing the start of this season we were leaking goals a lot more than we are now which leads me to the concern if Davis gets injured again.

I'm not saying Davis will 100% get injured but if you don't think McGregor is somewhat of an exception I don't know what to say. Davis could be injury free for rest of his career, he could be out for 10 months tomorrow. If that happens we have a reliance on only two CB and a pairing we know struggled early in the season. Again look at goals conceded when Mac and Baird were our CB this season.

i know Sutton isn't in the plans but has still featured off the bench and scored this season, he doesn't want to leave so ultimately he's an extra option we don't have at CB. I'm pretty sure that's been JR choice to bring him on. Take him out the equation we still have three ST options, same as CB so to make an argument that we need one and not the other is complete nonsense. (again when we only play one feckin striker and two CB) 

As for Jack thinking so to, show me one interview with him where he's said that? this is all speculation. 

Gary McKenzie has made 3 League appearances this season and scored the same number of goals as Sutton has in 14 League appearances.  . Last season Sutton scored 7 League goals and MacKenzie scored 5. So Sutton playing as a striker ain't any better than MacKenzie playing as a CH.

And Jack has recently stated he is looking for another striker. No mention of a CB. Let's see what position he fills next, eh?

 

[pod]

Just now, Sonny said:

Gary McKenzie has made 3 League appearances this season and scored the same number of goals as Sutton has in 14 League appearances.  . Last season Sutton scored 7 League goals and MacKenzie scored 5. So Sutton playing as a striker ain't any better than MacKenzie playing as a CH.

And Jack has recently stated he is looking for another striker. No mention of a CB. Let's see what position he fills next, eh?

 

The same one he's got at present, I hope.   

[bazil85]

11 minutes ago, billyg said:

Although things are looking good for us just now I still think we're too predictable in forward areas , everyone knows we're going to play one wee striker with another wee guy dropping off . JR obviously feels that we need a more mobile big forward so he has the option to change things about , that's why he's trying to get one in on a permanent deal. As for the defence , we're well covered just now, but should the worst happen re Davis or Gary Mc then JR knows how to play the emergency loan market , the way he did with McCart !

I've taken the emergency loan point Billy, I would just be more of a fan of a permanent signing. JR wanted four at start of the season and not sure what's changed. As for strikers I'm not saying don't get one or it won't be beneficial but with Mullan coming in and also two new midfielders to offer us something different I would be more concerned about not bring in a CB. Emergency loan is an option but there's risks attached to that as well. Can we get the right player? will he gel if asked to do an immediate job? what if we need cover for longer than they're allowed to sign?

I just don't think the security of another CB option is a bad thing. Might even get a versatile one that can play elsewhere. 

My point has always been as well people saying he'd have to settle for fourth choice. That's exactly the position a striker would be in. Yeah maybe he'll get off the bench more, not sure that would satisfy a striker of the caliber we require. 

[bazil85]

9 minutes ago, Sonny said:

Gary McKenzie has made 3 League appearances this season and scored the same number of goals as Sutton has in 14 League appearances.  . Last season Sutton scored 7 League goals and MacKenzie scored 5. So Sutton playing as a striker ain't any better than MacKenzie playing as a CH.

And Jack has recently stated he is looking for another striker. No mention of a CB. Let's see what position he fills next, eh?

 

As I've said several times, I'm fully aware Sutton isn't in JR plans. But he isn't going anywhere so he's still a fourth choice striker option. An option we don't have at CB unless we play a starting LB out of position or a players that's played about 30 minutes of football in four months. 

I've not seen any quote from JR about another striker, newspaper articles but no direct quote. If there is fair enough but a quote for a striker does not mean he isn't looking at a CB. I would not be surprised if a striker signed but I would also imagine the CB situation is being considered. 

[Bud the Baker]

I'd still prefer an extra central defender over a striker.

I'd also say to Sonny the 37 games Gary Mack played for us last season is the joint highest in his career. 

[Sonny]

40 minutes ago, bazil85 said:

As I've said several times, I'm fully aware Sutton isn't in JR plans. But he isn't going anywhere so he's still a fourth choice striker option. An option we don't have at CB unless we play a starting LB out of position or a players that's played about 30 minutes of football in four months. 

I've not seen any quote from JR about another striker, newspaper articles but no direct quote. If there is fair enough but a quote for a striker does not mean he isn't looking at a CB. I would not be surprised if a striker signed but I would also imagine the CB situation is being considered. 

We have three strikers who are all similar (Reilly, Smith and Mullen)  and fit into Jack's style - a style that works well and has got us to the top of the League. They are fast, fit, close down defenders, track back and are lethal on breakaways when we are having to defend. Sutton does not fit into this system.  A potential problem is we have no plan B.  You reckon Sutton is the Plan B. However the manager does not see it (or he wouldn't be so willing to offload him) and his performances have not indicated it. I am thinking of games such as Dunfermline away and Falkirk away when Reilly wasn't doing it and Sutton came on for the second half and had no impact. I think we need another type of striker to complement the other three and offer us something different if we have to change things around. Somebody that can change a game if Plan A fails to be working.  And we do not have that in my opinion. I think Ross Stewart was earmarked for that role but it hasn't happened yet. I think Jack only brings Sutton on to waste time or because Reilly is knackered - not to change a game. With Mullan now with us I can see Sutton's chances decreasing even more. But we still need a Plan B.